equine illness

[Becky]

So sorry for your losses!

Since multiple horses were involved, my first suspicion would be toxins of some sort. Something in the feed, hay or water. Or even something in the pasture. Chemicals, herbicides or pesticides. Grass clippings?

Hope you can figure it out and no more sick horses or losses.

 

[Mini~Madness]

Thank you. I did think about feed. While everyone was on the same feed. I looked for a recall and did not see anything , however I'm not taking any chances so its all going in the trash, but its a good thought to have it analyzed I will look into that before tossing the whole lot!

This is just a thought but were the horses on a different feed than the rest of the herd? It sounds like it could be an endotoxin maybe from the corn used to make the feedstuff. There was an issue with dog food a few years ago and several dogs died the same way. Not every dog got sick that ate the food but the ones who did got violently I'll and like I said several died. It ended up being traced to the corn they used. It wouldn't hurt to have any left over food analysised.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Mini~Madness]

Oh I agree there are some wonderful vets out there. In all honesty our vet use to be one (he was very proactive & involved & helpful). The past year or two though he really has just dropped the ball so to speak. It's almost like he no longer wants to be involved with the large animal part of his practice and just wants to focus on the small animals side which is fine it's his practice, but man he should just refer his large animal peeps else where if he doesn't want to fool with it or add a doctor to his practice that does want to do the large animal side. I don't know the answer, but I know something needs to change. So I guess I am on the hunt for a new vet. I just hope one exist in my area. I'm taking the rest of my herd (3 minis who all seem perfectly healthy as of right now) in today to a new practice basically to get established and (god forbid) if something goes wrong we will have somewhere to go & and to help if the unthinkable happens.

It is hard to fathom unless you have seen vets in this capacity( or lack there of). I think most vets do their very best, but I have experienced these issues and quite honestly, sometimes they do not want to admit they are at a loss and you need to take your animal to another facility that has more experience.

I love facility I use for my horses, but honestly, several years back, they did have a vet that was lacking in confidence and knowledge. She is no longer with the practice. I had a mini weanling colic and she was the only vet on call. She wouldn't tube her, she wasn't thrilled about putting in an IV, I felt hopeless. the filly had to be put down after a few days. I don't know that the outcome would have been different, but I just felt like a more aggressive course of action should have been taken.

Fast forward to this year, the local sm animal vet could not accurately treat my mini aussie. She was just over a year old, severe digestive issues for several months, went from 16 lbs to 10 lbs, we were contemplating having to put her down. Took her to another vet...she has food allergies ( severe), but is slowly putting on weight and her energyis through the roof now. Their response when I asked them to transfer her records was " well, some dogs with irritable bowel issues end up looking like marathon runners, they just don't put on weight". After4 visits, they just didn't get it, she was starving to death. Same facility decided to start branching out into horses. Told our neighbor her horse's lananitis was due to thrush. Horse, has just a hint of thrush in one foot, virtually no smell or black film at all, had a cresty neck, fat pads above her eyes, was on ten acres of pasture.....I told neighbor I would guess it was related to too much lush pasture and a possible thyroid issue. Had my vet out, did bloodwork,tested for thyroid issues, and that was exactly the issue- lush diet and thyroid, no thrush.

Point being, there are some excellent vets out there. I have had the opportunity to have them care for my animals. Yes, sometimes the outcome was not good, but they were extremely proactive, then,, there are vets that need to step up and be honest when the scope of knowledge is beyond their ability to diagnose. It does an enormous disservice to them and the animals they are treating.

 

[Becky Horat]

I know you've probably thought of everything at this point. But I'll mention anyway....anything change seasonally?? Like certain leaves falling, nuts falling off trees, etc. Ours started rooting around in the dirt for little weeds/roots this Fall. And no, they're not thin and have roughage, etc. We have had an Oak tree that they would eat tons of acorns or even my walnuts if allowed. Of course this doesn't bother my big horses. Had a pony years ago colic and get impacted from acorns. So, tree is gone (was dying last year) and walnuts picked up. Our neighbors have Oleandar bushes along our fence line. Have never seen them try to eat these, but have trimmed from our side and pick up any leaves that blew thru fence. Never worried about this stuff with big horses. These little guys scare me as they eat everything and they're so dang small, so something little would affect them. So sorry to hear of your loss. I couldn't imagine. Sounds like you've done everything your could have possible done. I worked for a vet for many years and completely understand your frustration. There were many times I could understand the owner's frustration and the vet just didn't have the same concern at times. Hope things start to look up for you. Hang in there.

 

[mel]

MM ~ My heart goes out to you, I'm so sorry for what you have gone through-- {HUGS}

While I was reading your post something came to mind, I had just had a talk with my vet last month about the strange growing weather we had in Southern Ohio and the impact on the hay and crops. One of the items we discussed was Fumonisin, Vomitoxin, and Mycotoxins that could be in the corn. I know there has been some issues with it this year, not sure how much though. The only reason that we discussed this is that I used to raise corn and know what kind of issues occur with drought stressed crops. I googled this and came up with a study done by University of KY. http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/id/id121/id121.pdf It may not have anything to do with what happened, but might be something to discuss with your vet. Also another thing that was brought up was the emergence of late weeds in drought stressed pastures, many weeds (usual culprit in this area is Johnson Grass) are sampling with high amounts of nitrates/prussic acid, so another thing to discuss would be nitrate/prusic acid poisoning. Johnson grass was abundant this year in S. OH again thanks to the hot dry summer. Here is some info about Nitrate/prussic acid poisoning http://www.agronomy.ksu.edu/soiltesting/doc1818.ashx . Neither of these might be the cause but it was something that my vet and I talked about just last month, so thought that I would give you the info. I lost my " donkey girl" last month to an unknown toxin in a pasture that she had lived in for 10 years, and having never lost one to an unknown cause it was a very long conversation with my vet.

Again I am sorry for your loss.

 

[Mini~Madness]

Thanks for the ideas! I have been given so many helpful things/ideas to discuss with my vet on this thread and I appreciate it greatly! I will defiantly be continuing to converse with my vet on this topic just to keep my other horses safe. So any and all thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

MM ~ My heart goes out to you, I'm so sorry for what you have gone through-- {HUGS}

While I was reading your post something came to mind, I had just had a talk with my vet last month about the strange growing weather we had in Southern Ohio and the impact on the hay and crops. One of the items we discussed was Fumonisin, Vomitoxin, and Mycotoxins that could be in the corn. I know there has been some issues with it this year, not sure how much though. The only reason that we discussed this is that I used to raise corn and know what kind of issues occur with drought stressed crops. I googled this and came up with a study done by University of KY. http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/id/id121/id121.pdf It may not have anything to do with what happened, but might be something to discuss with your vet. Also another thing that was brought up was the emergence of late weeds in drought stressed pastures, many weeds (usual culprit in this area is Johnson Grass) are sampling with high amounts of nitrates/prussic acid, so another thing to discuss would be nitrate/prusic acid poisoning. Johnson grass was abundant this year in S. OH again thanks to the hot dry summer. Here is some info about Nitrate/prussic acid poisoning http://www.agronomy.ksu.edu/soiltesting/doc1818.ashx . Neither of these might be the cause but it was something that my vet and I talked about just last month, so thought that I would give you the info. I lost my " donkey girl" last month to an unknown toxin in a pasture that she had lived in for 10 years, and having never lost one to an unknown cause it was a very long conversation with my vet.

Again I am sorry for your loss.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I really hope you can get to the bottom of this, for your peace of mind as much as anything. I do think that if they were going to, the others would have become sick by now, I just hope I am right. Any chance of finding another Vet as I am pretty sure you would not want to go through this with that same Vet, if the worst happened??

 

[wildoak]

So sorry for your losses... I know how frustrating it is when you do your best by them and it's just not enough. I had TEN mares break with a respiratory thing all at once about Thanksgiving, have never had such an onslaught. They are gradually getting over it, seems to be just a mild viral thing, but I have one older one going downhill so I will be more vigilant until they are all over this.

Mel's post reminded me of something that happened locally a year or so ago.. a number of cattle were lost after being turned out to graze in a pasture they grazed safely every year. Their reaction was almost immediate, he turned them out and then watched them start falling over. The grass was tested, and turned out to have high levels of - if my memory is correct, arsenic. It was a Tifton pasture, the farmer had grazed it for years but something in the environment changed. Don't know that they ever found out why, but goes to show what can happen beyond our control.

I hope you have no more issues, and I hope you find a vet you are happy with..

Jan

 

[Mini~Madness]

As of right now the remaining seem fine. Yesterday we took everyone to a new highly recommended large animal vet to get established with another practice in case we have an emergency where we might have to call someone out. They seem really good and helpful. We learned a lot there in just the one visit. I think I will be haunted by this experience for a long long time...

I really hope you can get to the bottom of this, for your peace of mind as much as anything. I do think that if they were going to, the others would have become sick by now, I just hope I am right. Any chance of finding another Vet as I am pretty sure you would not want to go through this with that same Vet, if the worst happened??

 

[shalakominiatureshowhorses]

Not to be rude (my emotions are raw), I appreciate your sympathy, but did you miss the part where I said I was at the vet 3 times in the span of a week? AND there were multiple calls to the vet where I was ready to have him up or take my horses to him at a moments notice and well HE thought they were FINE & would pull out of "it".... I would have happily lived at the vet & had extensive testing done whatever it took to still have my horses ALIVE and I kept being treated like a pain in the butt who was unnecessarily taking up the vets time. *sigh* Sorry I just had to get this part out. Maybe it wasn't your intention, but to me it seemed like you thought I did not attempt to get medical attention for my darlings.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and prayers. They are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Oh NO!!! I COMPLETLY understand!!! I just said that i dont take any chances, NOT saying you did!!! Im sorry I made you feel like I didnt think you didnt call!

I have a bad way with words, sorry about that. I know you did everything you possibly could and I did notice you saying you called multiple times! We all would have done the same. I feel like that with a vet sometimes too, a pain. But you know, in our family, our pets come first. PERIOD. And sorry if this comes out wrong too, but thats what a vet is supposed to do, do everything they can for our horses. Ill tell you a story,

I have a pet boer goat that got phemonia last year, and we called our vet friend and he said he could come next week. Well, that was too late for us, so we took her in to his office where another vet was working that day (there are 3 vets at our clinic). He told us IN FRONT OF OUR FACES that we needed to "calm down" because Holly is not a pet she is "just a meat goat" and that goats can be replaced. That goat means the WORLD to us. We told him to get our vet friend over the phone and tell him to tell us what to do. She was fine in the end, but that made me so angry. How can you tell someone that their pet ISNT a pet while they are crying their eyes out. That was just a bad run-in with a vet...And im sorry you had trouble with yours too

Im so sorry I hurt your feelings and we are praying for you!!!

 

[Mini~Madness]

At the time I read that MSG my emotions were so raw I think my feelings could have been hurt no matter what! lol so I apologize for taking offense where none was meant!

Thank you for your kind words and prayers! They are greatly appreciated.

Omg! I can't believe a vet said that to you when you came in for help! That was very insensitive! Why can't a boer goat be a pet? I'm glad everything turned out okay for Holly though... Maybe vets need to take a class in bedside manner for dealing with owners!

We decided to switch vets. We took everyone to the new vet Saturday and had them all checked out (even though everyone appears healthy) I knew I wanted a more dependable vet just in case the worse happened and we had any more emergencies, ya know?

Oh NO!!! I COMPLETLY understand!!! I just said that i dont take any chances, NOT saying you did!!! Im sorry I made you feel like I didnt think you didnt call!

I have a bad way with words, sorry about that. I know you did everything you possibly could and I did notice you saying you called multiple times! We all would have done the same. I feel like that with a vet sometimes too, a pain. But you know, in our family, our pets come first. PERIOD. And sorry if this comes out wrong too, but thats what a vet is supposed to do, do everything they can for our horses. Ill tell you a story,

I have a pet boer goat that got phemonia last year, and we called our vet friend and he said he could come next week. Well, that was too late for us, so we took her in to his office where another vet was working that day (there are 3 vets at our clinic). He told us IN FRONT OF OUR FACES that we needed to "calm down" because Holly is not a pet she is "just a meat goat" and that goats can be replaced. That goat means the WORLD to us. We told him to get our vet friend over the phone and tell him to tell us what to do. She was fine in the end, but that made me so angry. How can you tell someone that their pet ISNT a pet while they are crying their eyes out. That was just a bad run-in with a vet...And im sorry you had trouble with yours too

Im so sorry I hurt your feelings and we are praying for you!!!

 

[shalakominiatureshowhorses]

Im glad to hear

Ya, that vet was a "dog and cat" vet, but still doesnt give him an excuse to say that!!! And he probably said that because in our area, goats are sold for meat, but still he knew Holly was a pet!