Reble
Well-Known Member
I must say we used to be considered over the middle class
No more middle class there is just poor or rich...
Obama has not just given Americans HOPE, We too Canadians have HOPE
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No more middle class there is just poor or rich...
Obama has not just given Americans HOPE, We too Canadians have HOPE
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Poor people don't own horses, only middle class and rich... because no one needs a horse and if a person can afford to own them, then they must also have spare money and money they can put away.I must say we used to be considered over the middle class No more middle class there is just poor or rich...
Obama has not just given Americans HOPE, We too Canadians have HOPE
As to hope, I've had hope all my life. It's not hope that someone will give me something or hope that someone will take care of me, but hope (and expectations) about what I can work for and do for myself.
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LowriseMinis
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Sonya
Well-Known Member
No one disputs the above, life has it's up and down for everyone. I have been laid off, no health insurance, living off ramen noodles ...but I still didn't expect others to pick me up and carry my load. And I agree with Jill it's very frustrating to hear people constantly complain about how terrible their life is financially, no health insurance, yet they are driving around in a new vehicle or have numerous animals (especially horses which are so expensive to keep).
Ex: A friend of mine ran into some financial difficulty...she owns two horses (pays board for them) and called me for $ for her car payment. Sorry...nope! I asked her why she isn't selling her horses and she said, "I shouldn't have to give up everything I love"....well if you can't pay for it, then yes you should! If her car was for sale, her horses for sale, if I saw an effort on her part to improve her financial situation by cutting back, I would of gladly gave her the money. She is a perfect example of one who is not personally responsible like so many others in this country. And IMO that is one of the biggest reasons why this country is in the economic disaster it's in.
susanne
dB
Personal responsibility and a willingness to help others ARE NOT mutually exclusive.
I take complete responsibility for my own life, my shortcomings and my accomplishments, but I refuse to think that I am better than those who are experiencing difficulty merely surviving.
My mother raised 6 kids after my father died, and while she refused to go on welfare, she never once acted superior to those who were "needy." (Which we were, according to the bitch-wives of our community...but while we never had a spare nickel, my mother constantly reminded us of how much we had compared to many.)
Instead, we were raised with a strong work ethic AND a sense of the need to give to others. Being self-employed, I am hit hard by taxes, but I still vote for school bond levies and social programs. Throughout my adult life, I've donated my time or money to worthy causes. I spend a regular percentage of my work time taking on pro bono projects.
I am far from unique. There are many good people in our country who refuse to follow the "I got mine" philosophy popularized during the Reagan administration. They consider themselves very fortunate and therefore feel that they MUST give back.
Yes, there are people who take advantage of any program, but there are many deserving folks whose lives simply need a jump start. The recipients, however, are not the ones who benefit most. It is all of us -- our nation as a whole.
I take complete responsibility for my own life, my shortcomings and my accomplishments, but I refuse to think that I am better than those who are experiencing difficulty merely surviving.
My mother raised 6 kids after my father died, and while she refused to go on welfare, she never once acted superior to those who were "needy." (Which we were, according to the bitch-wives of our community...but while we never had a spare nickel, my mother constantly reminded us of how much we had compared to many.)
Instead, we were raised with a strong work ethic AND a sense of the need to give to others. Being self-employed, I am hit hard by taxes, but I still vote for school bond levies and social programs. Throughout my adult life, I've donated my time or money to worthy causes. I spend a regular percentage of my work time taking on pro bono projects.
I am far from unique. There are many good people in our country who refuse to follow the "I got mine" philosophy popularized during the Reagan administration. They consider themselves very fortunate and therefore feel that they MUST give back.
Yes, there are people who take advantage of any program, but there are many deserving folks whose lives simply need a jump start. The recipients, however, are not the ones who benefit most. It is all of us -- our nation as a whole.
LowriseMinis
Well-Known Member
Amen, Susanne, my sentiments exactly.
I'm hoping to go into business for myself in a few years doing massage therapy. The tax aspect is scary, innit?
I'm hoping to go into business for myself in a few years doing massage therapy. The tax aspect is scary, innit?
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
There are a lot of people who can and do choose to help others, myself included. It's another thing altogether to have that "help" mandated, controlled and distributed by the Government.
Honestly, it's just something I feel very strongly about personally and also a part of my practice is helping clients transfer their wealth to those they want to benefit from it, vs. having so much of it "lost" to taxation.
Some of us feel our already high tax brackets are enough when it comes to what the government feels should come from us and go (partially... eventually) to benefit others.
Honestly, it's just something I feel very strongly about personally and also a part of my practice is helping clients transfer their wealth to those they want to benefit from it, vs. having so much of it "lost" to taxation.
Some of us feel our already high tax brackets are enough when it comes to what the government feels should come from us and go (partially... eventually) to benefit others.
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Crabby-Chicken
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Well you know that some people love their animals like family. I agree that she should NOT have to sell her horses just because times are a little bad right now. THAT would be irresponsible. You don't sell your kids, or take your dogs to the pound either. Just my opinion.
And there are plenty of people that work two or three jobs and have no health care. THAT is not sitting on your butt. And yes, they should be paid enough to be able to take care of themselves if they or their family gets sick.
And you know,,, there are plenty of us that have worked all our lives, paid for what we have. That does not mean ( in my world) that I don't think others should not get a helping hand. God help me if I EVER feel resentful because my taxes go to people in need. There are always scrounges waiting for freebies. But there are also 90% of the elderly, children, veterans and people that just need help.
And there are plenty of people that work two or three jobs and have no health care. THAT is not sitting on your butt. And yes, they should be paid enough to be able to take care of themselves if they or their family gets sick.
And you know,,, there are plenty of us that have worked all our lives, paid for what we have. That does not mean ( in my world) that I don't think others should not get a helping hand. God help me if I EVER feel resentful because my taxes go to people in need. There are always scrounges waiting for freebies. But there are also 90% of the elderly, children, veterans and people that just need help.
Sonya
Well-Known Member
If she can't afford it, she can't afford it...she can't ride those horses to work/school...and if the unlikely event that they get ill, she certainly can't afford to treat them. She should not be begging others for money when she has 2 horses in a boarding situation and has no intent of selling/leasing them. She pays $400 month for board and that does not include shoes, etc...yet, she receives grocery assistance from the govt due to her low income. I would have no problem with her getting assistance, but not when she is spending $400 amonth for board...this is taking away assistance for others who need it more than her...someone who has children to feed not horses! Horses are a luxury, not a necessity.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
I agree with you 100%, Sonya
There's such a sense of entitlement in this Nation. If you can't afford something, you are not entitled to have it. To be on government assistance and own a horse -- now that is mind boggling to me
But, since others disagree and feel she shouldn't have to sell her horses when she can't afford them, I think you should post her name and address so people here and go on and get their checks out to her
There's such a sense of entitlement in this Nation. If you can't afford something, you are not entitled to have it. To be on government assistance and own a horse -- now that is mind boggling to me
But, since others disagree and feel she shouldn't have to sell her horses when she can't afford them, I think you should post her name and address so people here and go on and get their checks out to her
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Danielle_E.
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I guess I am a little confused. By your original post about your "friend" it sounded like the financial situation she now finds herself in is not the norm for her but in your subsequent post it sounds like she has always been a low wage earner which makes me wonder how she could afford to buy two horses in the first place and pay $400 board (per horse?). If her financial situation that she finds herself in at the moment is temporary I certainly, if I was her friend, would help her out financially and would help her find a solution to getting back on the path she use to be on. I guess I am one person who has strong beliefs that you should not judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes first. It's easy to be critical and say in this situation I would do this and this and that. You have no idea until you get there how you would react and also if it's not a permanent thing it makes perfect sense to me that she would try and keep her animals in the hopes that things might turn around for her quickly. Of course I would tell her that it is a "loan" and come up with a plan that is feasible, once she is back on firmer financial footing, to repay it.
Now back to the subject,
Yes, I watched the inauguration and the speech. I was deeply moved. I perused the international newspapers to see the reaction to your new President and it was wonderful to see the excitement, the positive remarks around the world from many governments and people. Congratulations, I think the people of America have elected the right man for this these times.
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Crabby-Chicken
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But, since others disagree and feel she shouldn't have to sell her horses when she can't afford them, I think you should post her name and address so people here and go on and get their checks out to her
Sounds like a Bush-ism to me! Point and laugh at the person who is down and then take away her privacy! Fun!
Sounds like a Bush-ism to me! Point and laugh at the person who is down and then take away her privacy! Fun!
I agree she shouldnt have them. HOwever I do know many people that are on goverment assistence that have horses or other animals but are trying to get rid of them. Whats the thought there? ARe they bad to?
What about those on assistance but are raising animals for their own food?
Sonya
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not, I'm not saying anyone is bad...my friend for example has had financial difficulties off and on since I've known her (and I say friend loosely, we hardly talk anymore). She has never paid her bills on time, has asked me for (and I've given her) money in the past. She has managed to get the medical card and grocery assistance and although she is a low wage earner, still drives a a newer/nicer car than I. She is worse off now than she has ever been since she bought the car that she could not afford in the first place. I will not help her financially again, not when she knows and continues to live above her means. We all make mistakes, but when you continue to do it, it's a habit. Everyone has found themselves in a pinch at times and that's not what I'm talking about here...but at the same time many people live above their means when they know they can't afford it and they don't care....If I saw her attempt to get rid of her horses then I would feel differently about her situation, but she has already said she will not sell/lease them or even give them away. And of course those who raise animals for food can't even be compared here...I don't know anyone in this country who raises horses for food though.
The horses were given to her a couple years ago and the board is $200 a horse...so $400 total....nice barn even has an indoor arena.
If I posted her name here and you all sent her a check, she would gladly except it. I know she wouldn't consider it a point-and laugh situation, she would love it, probably would quit her job even.
Danielle_E.
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I am sure Sonya there are others like your friend as well that don't have the money for health insurance, I think that is what this all evolved from, the discussion earlier about universal health care, but I know there are many others that don't have horses and truly don't feel entitled to have any "luxuries" in their lives and they still can't afford the premiums for healthcare. It's just mind boggling for those what don't live in the U.S. to see the amount of $$ spent by your government on other things such as "wars", "bailouts" etc. and yet many U.S. citizens go without something so basic as health care. Health care shouldn't be a luxury in a wealthy westernized country like the U.S.A. is all I am saying. I can see if would be an impossibility though in an impoverished country.
I searched to see what countries have some kind of health care system and this is what I found:
I searched to see what countries have some kind of health care system and this is what I found:
I am hoping that your President will come up with a workable health care system that will ensure that each man, woman and child have some form of health coverage when it's needed and do not have to fear losing all their possession or homes to pay for the care.
I think what infuriates SO many people these days about healthcare and other costs is, the blue collar workers are getting less and less, while the white collar ones are making sure they never do without. They ask for assistance from the government for their failing companies yet give themselves bonuses or redo their offices while cutting jobs and benefits for the peons under them. The banking industry is taking taking taking, with no real rules. Yet the auto companies are expecting to cut pay for their hourlys even though, their pay is only 3% of the cost of business. Its wrong how the system is now.
Charlene
Well-Known Member
president obama's health care plan is something i am particularly interested. had gary been able to afford the outrageous cost of health insurance, he would be alive today because his cancer would have been diagnosed sooner than stage 4.
don't even get me started on this subject!!! we need a smiley that looks "furious"!!
don't even get me started on this subject!!! we need a smiley that looks "furious"!!
Sonya
Well-Known Member
Living in MI I have followed GM's demise...this state heavily relies on the auto industry as far as the economy goes. No doubt that the auto industry has made serious mistakes. Did you know that UAW emplyees makes over $70/hr. We are not talking executives here...this is the worker in the assembly line...this does include their benefits also...but still how many people do you know with little to no college education make that kind of $?. There pensions are based on that pay rate...if you think about it no wonder they are in financial difficulty and charge an arm and a leg for a car.
LowriseMinis
Well-Known Member
Yes, GM's downfall has to do with the pay of their skilled employees, not the insane amount their executives get or any kind of financial mishandling or not building cars that compete in today's market or a downturn in sales due to the economy and gas prices.
It's those darn unionized laborers!
It's those darn unionized laborers!
