Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
You are absolutely correct, Sonya! Yet of course, it's the comparative handful of overpaid executives that everyone "wants" to blame.
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Sonya
Well-Known Member
Their downfall is all of those things you have mentioned...including UAW's salaries.
Per GM , all of their UAW employees ( including retirees) expense is only .03% of their entire yearly financial outlay. I do think the other .97% amounts to just a tad more dontcha think? I wonder what the white collar expenses are? Of course that isnt ever exposed. Bet its a little more than .03% eh?
susanne
dB
I tend to think Big Auto's problem has been not so much anybody's salaries, benefits or bonuses, but more their refusal to recognize that people don't want the big gas guzzlers they push on us.
Instead of taking the gas crisis of the 70s as a warning to start working on alternative fuels, they just continued on their merry way, figuring they could bully us into buying "any color, so long as it is black." Now every auto dealership (those that are still afloat, that is) are filled with enormous trucks that cannot be sold.
Even those who would have like to buy American choked on being told what we wanted and turned to the imports. (Actually, I shouldn't say "we," as Keith and I own an ancient GMC pickup and an elderly Ford van...just not new ones, so I guess we're unAmerican...)
The spectacle of the Big Auto CEOs travelling in private jets to go beg for a financial bailout was just one more example of just how out of touch they are with the public.
Of course, they are in bed with Big Oil, so why should they change even if it would reduce foreign petroleum dependence and aid national security? Even funnier when you think of other connections to Big Oil...
Instead of taking the gas crisis of the 70s as a warning to start working on alternative fuels, they just continued on their merry way, figuring they could bully us into buying "any color, so long as it is black." Now every auto dealership (those that are still afloat, that is) are filled with enormous trucks that cannot be sold.
Even those who would have like to buy American choked on being told what we wanted and turned to the imports. (Actually, I shouldn't say "we," as Keith and I own an ancient GMC pickup and an elderly Ford van...just not new ones, so I guess we're unAmerican...)
The spectacle of the Big Auto CEOs travelling in private jets to go beg for a financial bailout was just one more example of just how out of touch they are with the public.
Of course, they are in bed with Big Oil, so why should they change even if it would reduce foreign petroleum dependence and aid national security? Even funnier when you think of other connections to Big Oil...
LowriseMinis
Well-Known Member
Are the employee salaries an expense? Sure they are. I find it telling when instead of pointing out the follies of GM and other big automakers-poor planning, inability to keep up with the market, massive CEO salaries and so on...the first thing some people choose to go after is the salary of the average worker. So...
If you work a low wage job and need assistance, suddenly you're getting a handout. Shame on you. You need to be responsible for bettering your position, not relying on the government!
If you work a well-paid job and you make 'too much', suddenly you're at fault for the troubles of the company you work for. Shame on you! You need to tell your union to negotiate for LESS pay.
If you work a low wage job and need assistance, suddenly you're getting a handout. Shame on you. You need to be responsible for bettering your position, not relying on the government!
If you work a well-paid job and you make 'too much', suddenly you're at fault for the troubles of the company you work for. Shame on you! You need to tell your union to negotiate for LESS pay.
Sonya
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone disputed the fact that GM execs are overpaid or the company is poorly run. The percent of expense that goes to UAWs is regardless of the fact that they are highly overpaid which is the point I was making. Obviously GM's expenses are larger than their income or they would not be in the position they are in. There are thousands upon thousands of UAWs in this state alone, I'm sure there are plenty of execs as well, but not to the extent of the actual worker. Don't get me wrong, I am pro union, I am in a union, but the unions are also part of many problems...asking for ridiculous things that are part of the problem of financial difficulites.
Chart of UAW compensation compared to manufacturing average
Here is another interesting article regarding the UAW (and where some bailout money will be going):
The bottomless UAW money pit
When I first moved to MI my husband and I were renting a house. The owner/landlord was a GM employee. He would stop by often to get things from his storage shed. When we asked if he was on vacation (during working hours), he proceded to tell us about how things work at GM...UAWs would take turn punching each other in and many would not even show up for work...sometimes days at a time and the local union helped organize these schemes. The place was so big with so many employees there was no real way to keep track of who was there and who wasn't, there was not enough management in place and even some of those that were there were part of the schemes. He even worked overtime like this. He said on the average he was only actually at work 20-25 hrs a week but was getting paid for 60...his co-workers would punch him in and then he would do the same for them. This was a few years ago, hopefully there is a system in place where that doesn't happen anymore.
It is not only companies and execs/white collar that are greedy and corrupt these days....it is also unions and workers too. Everyone wants paid for doing nothing.
Here is the site that the above came from, it also has a chart comparing the salaries:
Chart of UAW compensation compared to manufacturing average
Here is another interesting article regarding the UAW (and where some bailout money will be going):
The bottomless UAW money pit
When I first moved to MI my husband and I were renting a house. The owner/landlord was a GM employee. He would stop by often to get things from his storage shed. When we asked if he was on vacation (during working hours), he proceded to tell us about how things work at GM...UAWs would take turn punching each other in and many would not even show up for work...sometimes days at a time and the local union helped organize these schemes. The place was so big with so many employees there was no real way to keep track of who was there and who wasn't, there was not enough management in place and even some of those that were there were part of the schemes. He even worked overtime like this. He said on the average he was only actually at work 20-25 hrs a week but was getting paid for 60...his co-workers would punch him in and then he would do the same for them. This was a few years ago, hopefully there is a system in place where that doesn't happen anymore.
It is not only companies and execs/white collar that are greedy and corrupt these days....it is also unions and workers too. Everyone wants paid for doing nothing.
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