Feeling really uneasy right now!

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Soggy Bottom Ranch

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Well, after a very rough and stressful move, we are in our new home. Tonight I had the first real scare since we moved in two days ago. I was working on reading and responding to the many new e-mails that I've gotten during my down time, and I heard the neighbors dogs barking. They are always tied, and there is about 40 acres between us and them. I could tell very clearly they were acting very aggressively. When I went and listened at the kitchen window, I could also hear coyotes howling, and not just one or two. It made the hair on my neck stand up, and really has me frazzled. We were talking to someone local the other day, and they mentioned that there was a horse a couple miles from here, that had been attacked in the pasture. They thought it was a cougar, but weren't sure. Someone else thought it might be coyotes because they've been having a coyote problem here lately. Now I'm more afraid than ever about being so close to this woods, and very uneasy about bringing home my boys after the barn is built. My biggest fear is what if something happens to my boys, and also what if something happens when my husband is out of town, and I'm left to deal with things alone? Maybe I'm just to freaked out right now, but can those of you who have experience living in areas prone to predators give me some feedback on this please?
 
I'm alone a lot and we don't have guns in this house, but I have a big baseball bat and I'll use it too, and yes we have coyotes too. Seems like this week we are really setting the state for Halloween up here in a big way with the fog and drizzle, wind and howlings going on. Scarry for sure Geri.

They seem to get more and more courageous as the years go by. They also might be wild dog packs that also like to howl and that send shivers up my spine something awful. Could also be hybreds of some kind.

The best thing we did was to build the barn less than 50 feet from my back door.

I can see stuff going on from my windows and also I can see every field. We build it there for that purpose.

There are things you can do and the first one is lighting. Get lots of lighting.

I have a large flood on my barn, the kind that goes on and off as it gets dark. Then there are lights in the back yard that lights the path to the barn. I do need more of those. I can also close my barn doors if I know they are out there. They cannot get in the barn if the doors are shut, no way.

You can put up ****y traps like hanging cow bells on the fences or gates to give you a heads up.

And of course keep the horses in at night and whenever you aren't home. They coyotes started up here about a week ago but when I went back to work in town, I put them all back in the barn while I was gone. Even if it's just a quick trip to town, they are inside when I am not here when I know those things are on the prowl. My neighbors watch too when I ask them to. And they do have guns and big ones.

I have field fencing around the entire barnyard and fields which is soon to be hotwired again inside and out. It has been temporarily disabled but I just got another charger so I'm hooking it up soon. I know that if a coyote really wants in that bad, they will get over the fence and through the hotwire, but I also know that some will not and move on to another place that is easier. We have board fencing in the front field where Sonny my quarter horse grazes and that is hotwired on the outside right above the bottom rail. It already worked very good on some neighbhorhood dogs that wanted to visit Sonny.

I also keep music going when I am out there but turn it off when I am not so I can hear things going on.

Also I have baby monitors.

Plus my dogs sense when there are things not right. I do listen to them and watch their signs.

Last but not least, listen to your gut instincts. If you feel uneasy that something is not right, just check it out. If you don't have a dog that will protect you, get one of those. I have two that go with me back and forth to the barn at night for my protection. Also, Amy my GSD puppy has instinctively taken on the job of protecting the horses, so that already has been an additional relief. I know both my dogs would fight a coyote if we are threatened.

At times like this I sleep with the windows open and one eye open too and my bat at the back door. POW, I'll clobber that thing and knock it down if it comes to my house.
 
most preditors dont recognise horses as prey. untill they have eaten horse meat they just dont look like food. My family lives in an area full of cyotes, bobcats, mountian lions, foxxes, etc. and our horses are still most in danger to comon dogs. at times Ive found large cat tracks passing through our horses pens. that lion had to have passed within 50 ft of the horses .that was a little unnerving. while you cant change nature there are some things you can do to make you and the boys more secure. clear away brush from the pastures.especialy along the fence lines. preditors dont like to stand out in the open. trees are ok but remove the low growth so you can see whats out there. pay close attn to what yours and the neibor dogs are doing. they will tell you if something is out there. get a big flashlight. I use one that is rechargeable and has a 6" lens. it has 1 million candle power. I can see plainly out to 50 yards.I found it at the auto parts store. and dont attract preditors into your property. feed your cats indoors, feed your dogs indoors. if you cant dont leave extra food out. only put out enough for that meal. be dilligent about rodents. mice and squirls will attract preditors. Be most wary of stray dogs! it sounds crewl but I wont put up with strays out around our animals. good luck and enjoy your new home. DR.
 
This is the second fall that we have been dealing with them- There is a large pack in the area that comes through about every 10 days and stays for a few days maybe leaves one or 2 behind- but the pack gets back together with in the week- haven't got a exact head count but pretty sure there is 15-

Pretty bold- they will sit in front of the house( in the middle of the night) on the road and howl- the road is about 75- feet away

It was suggested that we leave our radio on in the barn resonably loud.

Stall horses at night.

There should be 2 dogs instead of one ( they will bait a lone dog).

And I am not 100% sure but I swear my donkey is going off all night long and I think he hears them and is trying to scare them off- because as soon as we let him out he run out the barn door like he is going to stop something. Last night was reasonable quiet here- I am expecting another visit around wed.

We have not seen evidence of them by the barn yet but we keep looking.

Tiffany
 
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Thank you for such great suggestions. It was a rough night last night............didn't sleep much. I know it will just take some getting used to, and good management to learn how to deal with this problem. Predators are all over, back in the old house we had a pack of wolves howling close by, and one lone wolf that ran through between us and the neighbor. We also had a couple young bear run through the year before that, so I know the predators were there. The only difference is that our house and buildings were well out in the open farm fields, and not close to the woods at all. We did have coyotes there too, and I know they came up into the fields, but don't know how close they came. I'm sure they were around, and I just didn't realize it.

They also might be wild dog packs that also like to howl and that send shivers up my spine something awful. Could also be hybreds of some kind.
My old neighbor works for the DNR, and he and I had a couple great conversations about this area. He said there are wolves up here, but to date the couple packs that are here have not been causing issues. The woods are so vast over here, that they pretty much stay to themselves. Now, with that in mind, the first time Dave brought me here to see this house, on the trip back home, about an hour from here, we both saw a lone wolf running along the road. There was no mistake that it was a wolf! My ever doubting husband saw it too! And my first thought was hybred because my DNR neighbor said that wolves prefer not to be seen, and when out in the open, they will run from point A to point B to get out of the open as fast as they can. This guy was taking his time, and my neighbor thought hybred as well.

The best thing we did was to build the barn less than 50 feet from my back door.

I can see stuff going on from my windows and also I can see every field. We build it there for that purpose.
The way we are situated on this 10 acres will not allow me to put the barn right behind our house. Believe me..........I really wish I could, we have a beautiful 3 panel patio door in back here that would be perfect for gazing at the minis! The problem is that we are only about 50 feet from the woods in back, and on top of that, the woods is mainly an oak tree woods. The trees are very young yet, and not yet producing acorns, but still, a barn is a permanent deal, and couldn't be moved down the road to easily. We are also located on a very hilly property.......as are most out in this west central WI area! Beautiful for sure, but doesn't leave much for flat land for building a barn on. The front of the property is to steep, the house sits on top of the hill, and in the front it goes down hill to the road. If we put a barn down there, it would be flooded in spring with snow thaw! The only options I have are off to the right of the home, and further back on edge of the property, or next to our garage where we'd have to haul in a small amount of fill to flatten it out. We're opting for next to the garage, and if we haul in the fill, we can put it where the front will be flush with the grarage, and I can see them and the fence from the kitchen window.

We've already established the type of fence we'll be building, which will be some type of field fence inside, with rail fence outside. We were going to go with cattle panels because they are more sturdy, but I have to wonder if coyotes can get through them??? Maybe not, I think 4"x4" would be to small. Our DNR neighbor suggested we also run 2 electric wire strands around the outside near the bottom. I have been giving some consideration to LGD's, but not being dog people, we don't know much about dogs. What would be the best type to get, and as someone mentioned, I understand 2 would be better than 1. I was also told to get a donkey, but would it better to get full size instead of miniature? Our barn plans will have to be redone then. And on top of that, would we have to deal with donkeys calling all night? That would not go over well with the couple neighbors we do have here I'm sure.
 
Something I didnt see but might have already been suggested is that if you intend to put them in the barn at night but still worry then you could install security cameras on the outside of the barn -- make sure they have sound and then you could turn them onto a tv when you are sleeping. If you are like me the strange noises will wake you and then you will be alert to problems
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We have a lot of coyotes where we live also but we live by a sheep farm and sheep must make an easier meal than my goats or horses because we havent had any problems (knock on wood).

Good luck.
 
Well this is a subject that is right close to me! The other morning I heard a few out side and I ran out and they were sitting at my pasture fence staring at my goats and llamas! This was about 7:00 am and light out! They saw me and did not seem to care untill I started to make noise and run toward them. So what we have been doing is keeping the barn radio on, we have a big out door light that lights up the pastures, bring everyone in at night, hung wind chimes randomly through the side pasture where I saw them and lastly I took some Glade house spray and old perfume and sprayed it randomly out side the fence. It's worked so far! We have been dealing with them for about 7 yrs but this was the boldest next to one that did get in our barn when we first moved in! We had no horses at the time but hubby was super quick to take care of the situation! I was at TSC last night and I saw a huge live trap made for coyote and couger. It's a thought!

Good luck and try the perfume! You'll have to keep applying it but heck it's worth it if they stay back!

Leya
 
Here is Santa Fe we have a large number of coyotes that come up out of the wildlife refuge for red wolves (a protected species) behind us, over the years they have pulled down calves, pets ( dogs as big as labs, cats and other stuff). They allways get worse when the weather starts to change and the wild food supply is harder for them to find.

We have had goverment trappers come in, shot them, trapped them ourselves and they still keep coming. The only thing that has deterred them off our property is a combination of Great Pyranees dogs and jennies. The Pyranees are awesome, great with people and deadly for any type animal that does not belong on the property. They have killed over 20 in the last 10 years. We have tried anatolians and don't like the attitude towards the grandkids, so will be only using pyranees in the future. The jennies also do a great job over the last 4 years they have killed 5 that we know of. We have a total of 6 on the property and they combine with the dogs to protect the mini's from all comers be they stray dogs, coyotes, bobcats or other vermin on the property.

Coyote are very smart and intelligent animals and if determined will dig into any type barn, cross any type fence and go where they need to to get food. So don't be lulled into a false sense of security when it comes to a tight barn or fencing. Wolves are easier to deter as they don't want human contact in most cases, but coyotes, coydogs and wild dogs are a different story all together.

I would suggest you look into both for place, couple that with good lighting that can be changed up and you should be fine. A gun and the ability to use it would be a help also.

Good Luck,
 
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Here is Santa Fe we have a large number of coyotes that come up out of the wildlife refuge for red wolves (a protected species) behind us, over the years they have pulled down calves, pets ( dogs as big as labs, cats and other stuff). They allways get worse when the weather starts to change and the wild food supply is harder for them to find.

We have had goverment trappers come in, shot them, trapped them ourselves and they still keep coming. The only thing that has deterred them off our property is a combination of Great Pyranees dogs and jennies. The Pyranees are awesome, great with people and deadly for any type animal that does not belong on the property. They have killed over 20 in the last 10 years. We have tried anatolians and don't like the attitude towards the grandkids, so will be only using pyranees in the future. The jennies also do a great job over the last 4 years they have killed 5 that we know of. We have a total of 6 on the property and they combine with the dogs to protect the mini's from all comers be they stray dogs, coyotes, bobcats or other vermin on the property.

Coyote are very smart and intelligent animals and if determined will dig into any type barn, cross any type fence and go where they need to to get food. So don't be lulled into a false sense of security when it comes to a tight barn or fencing. Wolves are easier to deter as they don't want human contact in most cases, but coyotes, coydogs and wild dogs are a different story all together.

I would suggest you look into both for place, couple that with good lighting that can be changed up and you should be fine. A gun and the ability to use it would be a help also.

Good Luck,
JWC sr. Thank you for answering my questions about the LGD's!
 
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We have coyote's here but have never had a problem with them. they usually are afraid of large horse.s coyotes tend to pray on smaller animals. horses typically are too big and too tuff to take down so they stay away from them. I have worried about my mini's and my sheep when i had them but never had problems.

I was told to put up a 5 strand electric (high powered of course) with them being close together and every other stand being a ground dirctly linked back to the ground on the box. this will give them a heavy jolt when they hit the ground wire and the hot wire.

Another thing i was told was to take your dog out for a walk every evening to walk the permimeter. let the dog mark and do the "dog" thing. the scent of dog tends to keep coyote's away especially if they have marked their boundaries.
 
We have 11 acres and our house sits right in the middle with pastures on both sides and behind the house and barn. I sleep with a window cracked...just so I can hear anything major going on. About 3 am the other day I heard a horrible screeching noise...almost like a horse screaming....so I got up a listened closely and again heard the noise..so woke my husband up and told him I was heading outside. Now we do have screech owls...but this was no owl and we have coyotes...but this wasn't a coyote either. We went out and checked all the minis in the barn...they were fine...checked the sheep in their paddock and they were fine....even the standardbreds out in the pastures were fine.....but the two llamas were very upset....they either saw or heard something in woods that made them sound the alarm. In the 2&1/2 years that we have had them...they have only sounded the alarm once and that is when they saw a dog in a sheep flock across the street. So I am very thankful that I now let my llamas stay out all night.

So along with donkeys and dogs...you can also use llamas.

Becky
 
Question about the Jennies. Dave and I talked about getting a donkey, so would having full size be the best way to go? And also, would the combination of a jenny, along with a couple great pyr be an ok combination?

Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences! It is really setting me a little more at ease. This was something I was really afraid of before we moved, and it's just all coming to reality to quickly for me, before I'm even used to this new home. Last night really had me on edge..........and I have a hubby who just doesn't understand that. He looks at it from the standpoint of it just being more work, so I will be sharing these responses with him. He doesn't quite realize what it's like to be the one left behind when he does have to go out of town. I just want to make sure we cover all the bases so that we don't have problems!
 
Much to my surprise we too are dealing with coyotes. We live in a very developed area. About 3-4 blocks from us is an open area. one day when Jessie and I were walking the horses out in the "wide open spaces" (LOL) we saw a coyote. He stayed up in ahead of us and posed no threat. This is not a wooded area. There isn't even much brush. I have no idea where these guys can even call home. Then a few nights ago we heard a pack of coyotes. It sounded they were messing around the stable that borders that "open land". The bad thing about the coyotes around here is they will go right into subdivisions. We tend to have the most trouble with them eating cats and small dogs. They will dig under the best fences for that. However, they haven't bothered our horses or even our chickens.
 
The key here in all this is -- you may have noticed people telling you that coyotes will go UNDER fences.

That's what we've seen as well. So, by puting an electric fence strand along the BOTTOM of your fencing, it is a better deterrent than on top. I also agree with good lighting around your barn and playing a radio at night. And lastly, having your dog(s) and/or men leave scent marks along your fence line.

We do everything I just posted. So far so good.........

Oh, and we also have two pairs of llamas in a couple of our fields. Our female has proved to us she knows her job. Earlier this past summer we saw a lone coyote in our neighbor's cow field, not far from our fence and she lowered her head and charged toward the fence line. The coyote jumped and ran.

MA
 
And lastly, having your dog(s) and/or men leave scent marks along your fence line.

MA
If this really works, then we're all set. My husband's red heeler, an intact male, keeps his territory well marked. Look-out when a strange semi pulls in the yard.
 
Question about the Jennies. Dave and I talked about getting a donkey, so would having full size be the best way to go? And also, would the combination of a jenny, along with a couple great pyr be an ok combination?

Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences! It is really setting me a little more at ease. This was something I was really afraid of before we moved, and it's just all coming to reality to quickly for me, before I'm even used to this new home. Last night really had me on edge..........and I have a hubby who just doesn't understand that. He looks at it from the standpoint of it just being more work, so I will be sharing these responses with him. He doesn't quite realize what it's like to be the one left behind when he does have to go out of town. I just want to make sure we cover all the bases so that we don't have problems!
I will add a note here. I know someone that uses pyr's and a donkey with her sheep. A good guardian donkey typically will NOT like dogs of any sort. She cannot use both at the same time because the donkey will try to take out the dogs. When she has the sheep in the lambing area(she has a 10,000 acre ranch) she uses the donkey who is kept there and when the sheep are moved out to pasture the 2 or 3 pyr's go with them and the donkey stays in the pens barn areas. They have all predators to deal with and the pyr's do an excellent job. She also uses herding dogs to move the sheep and has to pen the pyrs and the donk as they both think the herding dogs are trying to get their sheep
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I've never had problems with coyotes other than with them getting cats, chickens. I've always lived where there are coyotes, bears, big kitties, often at the edge of forest and having big dogs has been enough of a deterrent. We did have major problems with feral dog packs at one time.
 
I am alone a lot, having a truck driver for a husband. Lots of coyotes...when we 1st moved here they where very brave and would cross right in front of the house. One day I was down at the barn, day light teaching a full size filly to lead......all the sudden BANG! My husband shot at a coyote that was not 100 feet from me, which I had not noticed. Scared the !@?*&^ out of myself and the filly.......I marched up to that house and threaten to take that rifle and shoot the husband or at least make him dance!

Also, had got me some ducks when we 1st moved here, was also caring for my dad, I would take his catheter (SP) bag, and sprinkle it around the pond BUT the owls and hawks got them instead of the coyotes.

Now, we have enough outside dogs that they (coyotes, bob cats and such) are rarely seen, just heard. I have one dog that is half healer/pointer and he lives to chase coyotes. He is always laying out in the pasture, on top of a round bale just hoping to catch one, then of course the others back him up when he spots one.
 
I will add a note here. I know someone that uses pyr's and a donkey with her sheep. A good guardian donkey typically will NOT like dogs of any sort. She cannot use both at the same time because the donkey will try to take out the dogs. When she has the sheep in the lambing area(she has a 10,000 acre ranch) she uses the donkey who is kept there and when the sheep are moved out to pasture the 2 or 3 pyr's go with them and the donkey stays in the pens barn areas. They have all predators to deal with and the pyr's do an excellent job. She also uses herding dogs to move the sheep and has to pen the pyrs and the donk as they both think the herding dogs are trying to get their sheep
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This does make sense. Dave was talking to the woman who is boarding our horses this morning, and she commented that it might be best to start with just one full size donkey. I think this is where we will start, along with electric wire at the bottom of our fence, music, lighting, and a few others of your suggestions. I do feel better about this now, so thank you for your help.

I do have some questions about the donkey. How do we select a good guardian donkey when we are ready? I mean, how will I know that it knows its job? Is male or female better?
 
I will add a note here. I know someone that uses pyr's and a donkey with her sheep. A good guardian donkey typically will NOT like dogs of any sort. She cannot use both at the same time because the donkey will try to take out the dogs. When she has the sheep in the lambing area(she has a 10,000 acre ranch) she uses the donkey who is kept there and when the sheep are moved out to pasture the 2 or 3 pyr's go with them and the donkey stays in the pens barn areas. They have all predators to deal with and the pyr's do an excellent job. She also uses herding dogs to move the sheep and has to pen the pyrs and the donk as they both think the herding dogs are trying to get their sheep
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This does make sense. Dave was talking to the woman who is boarding our horses this morning, and she commented that it might be best to start with just one full size donkey. I think this is where we will start, along with electric wire at the bottom of our fence, music, lighting, and a few others of your suggestions. I do feel better about this now, so thank you for your help.

I do have some questions about the donkey. How do we select a good guardian donkey when we are ready? I mean, how will I know that it knows its job? Is male or female better?
I would think breeders would be able to guide you with that. Maybe post over on the donkey board for suggestions
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I will speak from my own experiences only after living in heavy coyote country for 35 years. We have never had horses attacked. We have had calves attacked while being born when the cow was down in labor.

The only problem we have had with coyotes is mostly with small animals they can 'hit and run' with- cats, small dogs, chickens, etc.. however we have had issues here recently with packs going after larger dogs that may be running the neighborhood loose on their own.

My dogs, after hearing coyotes all of their life, still growl if they are out front lurking, or if they are really close and yapping or howling. The dogs know they are another predator and will growl or bark if they coyotes are moving in really closely to let me know they are out there.

As long as your horses have safe fencing, and you dont have any tiny foals there for a pack to take down, I dont think you are in too much danger- we used to watch a pack every morning trot through our pastures and they never bothered anything healthy but made a lot of ruckus. We had cattle and full sized horses and 40" pony there.

Also, there are distinctive differences in the appears of a coyote (or DOG) attack and that of a big cat. They have entirely different methods of attack.

P.S. Our neighbors used to have coyotes get into their 5' fence, so they have lined the bottom with 3 foot chicken wire, using about half of it on the fence, then folding over and burying the other half under the dirt so nothing can dig in. With an electric wire across the top of the fence, that seemed to end the intrusions. Or, you can also run a hot wire around the top and again around the base, where they would possibly look for a place to scoot under.

Dont work yourself into a frenzy but do keep your eyes and ears open and be aware. Do you have a place to bring your horses in at night just in case and for more peace of mind?
 
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