Fox Lane carts- Anyone have one? *Update- decided on a HyperBike!

[rbrown]

I am slowly destroying my little green road cart on the trails, so I've decided it's time to trade in one of the road carts, either the green one or Skippy's new one, for a cart I can have more fun with

I've been looking at Smart Carts and Minicrowns, but came across the Fox Lane carts- they're closer to my ideal price range at $1450 (which makes me slightly suspicious, LOL) but I like the look of them and figured they might work just fine for what I'm looking for (a cart that won't fall apart on me when I take Kandy up to the bumpy trails at a canter!). They are a little heavier at 128 lbs, but the green road cart is really, really heavy and Kandy is a tank!! I am not sure what the road cart weighs, but I can hardly pick one side up, and it is really hard to pull up inclines...

Anyway, I'm too far to go over and see one in person, so would love to know if anyone here has any opinions on them. I haven't found much info on them online in my searches.

 

[Sue_C.]

I think it looks like a great cart, especially for the price. It certainly seems compatible with the Pacific training cart, which is unavailable in mini size. Besides, the Pacific training cart, at the smallest, (11hh min) is $3850, which in my opinion, is far-far overpriced...and one is paying a LOT for that name. Come on now...all it is, is a "C" spring pipe cart for goodness sakes. And, to tell you the truth, even after having driven my buddy's Halflinger in her Pacific trail cart...I still say that my little G & S Trail Cart gives a far smoother ride..check out the price of that cart...a lot of bang for your buck there, and easily "fancied" up with some sewing skills and some naugahide...as I made myself the seat drop, and back drop from seat back to seat.

 

[rbrown]

The lady where I keep my horses has Pacifics with the C springs for her Haflingers. They look nice, seem durable, but I've never ridden in one.

Hmm, I'd forgotten about the G&S Trail Cart- looks nice enough for what I need (not showing at the moment, and probably not in the near future). Right now my primary concern is finding a cart that will hold up to Kandy

(that little icon looks like her LOL). I am assuming yours is holding up well, Sue? Any idea what the weight is? I can't find that on their website... will have to give them a call!

 

[Minimor]

The c springs give a MUCH softer ride than the little coil springs that so many carts have. The air bags of the smart cart give a better ride still.

I cannot comment on the durability of the fox lane.

 

[Matthijs]

Have you thought about the HyperBike? It is within your budget and it is most certainly the best bang for your buck. I think it is the best for trails as it has the widest wheel base from all carts I have seen. Getting in and out seems to be the only fear that holds people back from it but if your horse stands well, and I think that is e requirement for every trail horse you will get handy with that in a matter of days. Check out the website at www.grahamcarrigeworks.com there is also a hyperbike forum on fb where you will find a whole group of people sharing their stories and experience with the HB. We have a pacific smart cart and a HyperBike but I would say the Hyperbike is most suited for trail use.

 

[susanne]

Have you contacted the manufacturers? I'd ask if you can contact a customer or two. It looks nice, but even that price is significant if you're not happy. Like you, I'd love to hear what those who already own one have to say.

 

[Matthijs]

The big difference between the the Fox and the pacific smart cart, wich would be your mini sized vehicle, is the suspension, the Fox only has springs for the driver!!! The pacific has air suspension that will absorb the shocks not only for the driver but also for the horse. The next big one is the adjustability of the smart cart it is adjustable in so many ways that it will always be possible within the size range to have a balanced cart so you are not jarring your little horse around. IMHO you can not compare the two, it is like comparing a Fiat to a Lexus, yes the Fiat has four seats and a motor and rear view mirrors. In this case I think if you are talking about going on trails, and already have the experience of destroying your current cart, you have to look at not only short term things and your personal comfort but also at what strains you are putting on your horse. Your Pacific smart cart will hold its value as will the Hyperbike. Now there is the other one, no visible shock absorbers here, The whole frame is the shock absorber, this results in superb comfort for the driver as well as the horse. No I do not own part of any of these outfits but I have not seen any two wheelers that compare.

 

[Jules]

I had looked at the website a week or two ago. They certainly look like handsome carts for the price.

I am thinking that the HB does sound more suitable for trail fun and hooning though (from someone who is harbouring HB desires herself..)

 

[Sue_C.]

I do love my G& S cart, and also found the C-springs harder to take than the coil springs, could just be me... I have used my cart everywhere, and just finished a 7km marathon with it, and have to say it did very well. I did have to check, and tighten two bolts afterwards, but I wasn't the only one. LOL!

Matthijs, there is no comparison between the Smart cart, and any cart with coil or C-springs, but the Pacific TRAIL cart, (unavailable in mini-size anyways) is the one I referred to as also having only C-springs, and the cost is phenomenally higher than any other C-spring cart, at almost $4000 before taxes and shipping...there is no WAY any ordinary pipe cart is worth that.

 

[rbrown]

So much good advice here! Love this forum.

As far as the hyperbike goes, I love the idea of it (and know Kandy would too!!), and I think we'd have a blast. I was leaning toward carts that can fit 2 people, though- right now my girls are being used in a lesson program, earning their keep this summer, and they like to have 2 girls per cart as they don't have enough horses and carts to go around. I think I'll talk to the driving instructor and barn manager and see what they think. I do need to sell a road cart if I get a new cart, don't think I can afford to keep it and buy another (and besides, I can't use 3 carts! 2 is plenty for me).

I'm also looking at a used Smart Cart, and waiting to see if shipping is going to push it way too far out of my price range. I know it would be a super investment, just need to see if it's going to be too much of a stretch to grab this one- I know used ones don't come up very often! In the meantime, it is definitely the first thing on my "when I am rich" wishlist

and I will probably start saving up for one when I start my new job if this one doesn't work out. I didn't realize it absorbed shocks for the horse as well- actually didn't realize that was possible, so that is good to know. Kandy is a tank and hardly ever complains, but she's such a great little horse and deserves as much comfort as possible.

I have kind of been upgrading all of my equipment slowly, when I can afford it. Both of the girls are in freedom collars now, which they love, and I just bought a new deluxe Country Carriages saddle for Kandy's harness. Now I'm thinking that maybe I should just wait, and save up for my perfect cart... which would mean staying off the trails

We would survive, but it's just so tempting to buy a cart right now, since the weather's great, I'm at the barn every day, and Kandy is in good shape. I'm sure come September, when school starts and I'm working, I won't be at the barn as frequently so won't have to think of the fun I'm missing on the trails, LOL.

I took my boyfriend to the barn tonight to show him my poor beat up road cart- the good news is that only the seat back, which was an addition to the cart and evidently not constructed as well as the rest of the cart, is in a sad state (that's what was making the falling-apart, rattling sound). Everything else looks good to go! Just needed to tighten some bolts here and there. (He also drove Skippy for a few minutes in the arena, and has decided that next time he'd like to try a cones course. I think I might have a future driving partner!!)

 

[Matthijs]

Sounds like a good plan, take a good look around at all your options and then make the right decision. One thing with both the smart cart and the HB is that both are custom made for you and usually take a number of weeks to produce in some cases it may even be months I have heard. As you say used you will find few. I bought our HB used and would not recommend it nor buy another cart like that used as it is a custom cart. We ran into a few issues with the HB and Bob Graham has been amazing even for us he has been wonderful and backed up his product like the real gentleman he is. But fact remains that it is custom made for you and as a buyer for a used cart it is hard to see what is custom and why. All the problems we had were caused by customization done for the original buyer. Basically we had to find out the hard way and after all is said and done it would have cost only a fraction more but we would have had a cart without all the issues. As I said before Bob was amazing in his service and he was not to blame, but you cannot expect a small builder like him to remember every cart he build and then when trouble arrives across the border after a number of years to be able to put a finger on it just like that.

One more thing, is to pick what you need and not to be expecting one cart to do it all for you. The thing is that these carts are all made for something specific and yes you can use it for other things but will always find it will have its limitations.

The HB I think is the most fun trail cart at 30 pounds and a wheel base of 120 cm the smart cart can seat two, but is not recommended by Bill Schuil, that is why the seat is on the narrow side, its weight of 115 pounds is surely more but not more than 10% over the belcrown. Mostly I find the smart cart is so much longer and harder to transport than the HB I can actually fit the HB in my smartcar.

I know it is very overwhelming and it is hard to make the right choices. We now have three carts, a HB a smart cart and an amish build wooden cart like a small roadcart or breaking cart and are preparing to get our second HB mainly for transporting ease and the fact that it is light enough for our filly.

PS in my avatar you see our pair in the pacific smart cart with a pair pole and yoke

It is likely the most adjustable and convertible cart around.

 

[rbrown]

Overwhelming is right!!

I didn't realize that Smart Carts were custom made to you (definitely a cart newbie here!!). I just assumed, silly me, that the custom part came from all of the adjustments with the seat and shafts. Are there questions I could ask the current cart owner... like the horse size and person size it was made for? Or would it still likely not be fit correctly to me and my horses? Yikes, this is so complicated! Maybe I should just go with the bike for now, since it is much less expensive, and I'm sure I would love it. I just need to win the lottery or something so I can buy one of everything and see which ones I like best

I am thinking that maybe I'm biased because I prefer the look of the Smart Cart over the bike, but you are right- what I really need a cart for is trails, since my road cart is just fine doing the pleasure stuff and some work in the fields. Sounds like I'll eventually end up with the same cart collection as you! Thanks much for your help!!

 

[Minimor]

The smart cart is not custom fit--there is the standard smart cart and then you choose whatever options you want--curved seat back , wider axle, patent dash, etc etc. there is the standard cart and then there is the larger model which is made bigger for taller ponies--it has the longer axle and bigger wheels, and now a wider body and longer shafts. When I ordered my second one I got the wider axle but not the bigger wheels. At that time the wider body and longer shafts were not available. So, if buying used just ask if this is the standard cart or the one for larger horses/ponies, or ask for measurements of axle, basket and shafts and what size wheels it has and you will know if it's right for your horse.

 

[Sue_C.]

I have to say I was very impressed with the fact that Gary (G&S Carts) called me a few times to ask me what exactly I wanted...and my cart was customized...I had the shaves made wider at the tugs than the norm, so my "bulky" buckle in traces on my Super V breastplate wouldn't bind, and even called me after I received the cart to make sure all went together properly. When you figure I live quite a distance; Nova Scotia, Canada, that was a surprise to have him call, that's for sure.

 

[rbrown]

Thanks to you all, I've decided on a Hyperbike. What I really want is something that I can go fast in, over bumps, and not worry about wrecking the cart. I worry that with a Smart Cart, I'd just be too nervous about hurting it, or scraching the paint, etc. to really have fun- which is what I want to do with my horses right now! I like how lightweight it is, and seems like the best cart for having fun with on the trails.

However, I'll still be drooling over the Smart Cart... maybe next summer, if I start showing again

Or I may decide to sell both road carts, and have the bike and a smart cart... we'll see! Wil definitely post once my hyperbike gets here! I can't wait!!!

 

[paintponylvr]

Have you actually talked to Kathy or Frank about the Fox Lane cart?

I have some pics that I took of my girlfriend sitting in the cart. We are/were still newbies at looking at things then (I think I still am, but...). We met up with Kathy and Frank in OH last year. They were at a Hafflinger show and a driving clinic. They graciously showed us the cart, let us look at it, ask ??s, poke it, let us move it forward and back, climb in and out - etc. Now, for the life of me, I can't remember all of what we spoke about as far as shocks and springs. I made a serious mistake when I had neither a note book for notes nor some type of recorder... For the "testing" we did -it was pretty darned awesome!

In between her clinic lesson, with a 4 wheel vehicle, Kathy hooked it up and gave both Vicki and I rides in it. I can say the seat isn't wide enough for a pair of passengers if one is "queen sized" (like me). In fact, it was down right uncomfortable - especially to me who has a fear of falling and with the "float", the shafts kept rising up. I was having what I suppose would be mini "panic attacks" and I didn't get a "good ride" feeling due to that. However, we are trying to schedule another time to get together (I've had a lot happen since then and haven't been able to get back to OH like I thought I would) as I'd like to give it a fair trial and seriously consider it myself. Personally what I'd prefer is to take one or all 3 of my currently trained to drive ponies and give it a trial.

I have also run into another issue. I am finding that I myself like/prefer the wooden shafts for everyday driving. I've talked to too many people and had some pretty interesting situations myself, where the metal, steel, aluminum shafts have gotten bent. I can't fix those on my own and it's difficult to take or send them to someone to fix. Another issue to look at with the different springs - if the lesson students are little girls - C springs might be sprung too hard for them - giving them a very rough ride - creating issues with their balance and line handling. I'm a big person - what works for a smaller person on this list, won't necessarily work for me OR if there is two riders in the cart as the weight difference changes the dynamics of how the springs work (or don't work, LOL).

From the descriptions of Smart Carts and this cart - I'd say a lot of the adjustments are the same or at least similar. BUT since I haven't seen the Smart Cart in person or handled it - I can't be sure of that. The Fox Lane has a lot of adjustment available - in the shafts, in the seat, could have brakes installed (higher cost) as an option, ...

For the life of me, I can't remember if this cart had airbag shocks or not... That would have to be asked. Did they put the price right on their website now? I don't remember them having the price on the site... Now if I could get them to part with that wagonette they have!

I can send smallish pics - 3x5 - and if you see something you want to see close up, can send larger ones...

 

[rbrown]

I didn't end up talking to anyone at Fox Lane, because I just decided that right now, I'd rather have a Hyperbike. I want something that will stand up to trail use, that is lightweight... and that I don't have to worry about being ruined by the lesson girls! (They are not as careful with my equipment as I am

)

I think that in the near future, I'll want something a bit nicer looking, especially if I start doing CDEs, and then I'll definitely be checking out the Fox Lane carts. For now, I think I will be quite happy having the road carts for lessons, and the Hyperbike for everything else.

 

[susanne]

.

You're going to love your HyperBike, and you're going to love working with Bob!

.

 

[rbrown]

Thanks Susanne

He seems like a very nice guy from my emails with him. I am sending out my check as soon as he has a shipping total.

Do you have the C shafts on your Bike, Susanne? I think your name came up when we were dicussing whether I needed B or C shafts... I would love to be able to fit both Kandy and Skip. Kandy is 36.5" with a HUGE barrel (she's about 63" around the widest part when she's fit and at an ideal weight- gets much fluffier in the winter!). Skippy is 39" and all leg- her barrel is about 54"). They are both the same length, and they both fit in my road cart with 48" shafts using the same harness with almost the same measurements (Kandy just has a bigger girth and bigger hindquarters). Bob said for sure Skip would go in the C shafts, but wasn't sure about Kandy. I know she's shorter, but she's just so big around that we were thinking that she might just fit in the C shafts... would be awesome to be able to drive both of them with the Bike. I thought Kandy was my safe, sane, and speedy one, but after some chiro work Skippy has really started to enjoy moving out and she's proved herself to be solid enough that I would feel very safe putting her to the Bike.

And last question (for now!!)... any recommended harness modifications? Any other equipment I need to buy? I know I need a shorter whip... I'm planning on borrowing a longer crop from the whip bucket at the barn, and trying some different lengths out before I order one. I've heard I may need shorter holdback/breeching straps, but my older harness has some pretty short ones that I think will work. I have freedom collars for the girls. Maybe shorter traces?? Mine right now are set for my road cart, and can only get about 2" shorter on each side. Yay, can't wait to get my Hyperbike!!

 

[susanne]

We use the C shafts, as Mingus pushes the upper limits of the mini world. I haven't tried them with a smaller horse, so while I'm not sure, it seems the C shafts may work out fine for both of your kids. I would lean toward starting with just the C shafts, since you know you want those for Skippy, and only ordering the second smaller size if they prove necessary for Kandy.

We use our ugly work harness with both the HyperBike and our easy entry and make few adjustments. The traces need to be longer for the HB than the EE, since the singletree is under the seat, but we're able to make do with the same set. Driving lines/reins that are a perfect length for most carts are annoyingly long with the HB, so I do plan on ordering a second, shorter pair. I use the same whip for both carts, and it really is too long with the bike. I know that Leia ordered an UltraLite whip in a very short length. I love my Ideal whip, and may end up buying their smallest size. I prefer to have an actual lash, but if you don't mind just the short popper, a riding whip should work.

Keep us all posted!