Frame Overos

[SampleMM]

If you were breeding for frame overos ......................Would you want your stallion to be LWO+ or your mares to be LWO+?

 

[kaykay]

I prefer the stallion to be frame but I do have both. Bad thing about that is they cannot be bred together. But until I found a frame stallion I had already added some frame mares. Since you always normally want an outcross stallion it works out in the end. My outcross stallion is not frame so it works well.

 

[Songcatcher]

Since a mare can only produce one foal per year, and a stallion can produce many foals per year, if you are specifically wanting to produce Frame Overos, it makes sense to have an LWO positive stallion and LWO negative mares. Like kaykay, I have both, but of course cannot breed them to each other. That is the most important factor and needs to be reminded at every opportunity.

 

[targetsmom]

Just thought I would toss in that you do not increase your chances of getting a frame overo by breeding LWO+ to LWO+ - you only increase your chance of getting a lethal white (dead) foal. So if you want just frame (not "tovero" or mixed pinto patterns), breed your LWO+ to solid LWO- minis.

 

[Carolyn R]

Y'ep, the economical way to do it is to buy a super nice frame stallion. I just happened to start collecting some mares that were frame. I didn't have the heart to sell off the mares, especially since all my current mares are ones that I purchased when they were well under 3yrs, some as weanlings and yearlings. So I did the next best thing in my book, I have two heterozygous tobiano stallions. Now my foals are "like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get",(this phrase doesn't sound right unless you do it in your Forest Gump voice) LOL. It is too hard to aim for frame and frame alone, so I aim for a nice, correct healthy foal, and if there is pinto in there somewhere its a bonus.

 

[SampleMM]

Well, I think I have a pretty nice stallion, lol. and he tested positive for LWO+. I knew that he probably would be just because I know nothing about overos. Coming from the Quarter Horse world, this is totally new to me but exciting all at the same time. So, now what do you think will happen when I breed him to my solid buckskin mares? Anyone care to guess?

 

[topnotchminis]

I don't have any advice on the LWO question, but just wanted to say I live your boy. I bet his foals will be stunning.

 

[Songcatcher]

... It is too hard to aim for frame and frame alone, so I aim for a nice, correct healthy foal, and if there is pinto in there somewhere its a bonus.

And that is what we should all aim for. My color of choice is Black and White. However, one of my best foals ever was a solid Buckskin.

 

[Songcatcher]

... So, now what do you think will happen when I breed him to my solid buckskin mares? Anyone care to guess?

With MY luck, when I got the Frame pattern, it would probably be on a Perlino.

 

[Joanne]

Your stallion is stunning! He is a minimal white frame.

In my experience you will not get a lot of color like you would with a horse that had more white. But he is sure adding to the conformation with that body! You should have some amazing foals.

We find that horses with more white on them like this colt will produce more color on their foals.

Like the others have mentioned, having a frame stallion for starters makes the most sense. We have many frame mares as well and breed them to our sabino stallion, a Nostalgias Show Me The Money son. He is a sabino that is homozygous for black. He does not carry LWO.

 

[SampleMM]

Thanks Joanne & Topnotchminis for your kind words, it really means a lot to me.

Everyone has to excuse my ignorance on this subject, but what type of mares would help throw that wild color? I know virtually nothing about pintos.

 

[Songcatcher]

Thanks Joanne & Topnotchminis for your kind words, it really means a lot to me.

Everyone has to excuse my ignorance on this subject, but what type of mares would help throw that wild color? I know virtually nothing about pintos.

It seems that a combination of Frame and Sabino helps to bring out the wild patterns.

 

[Carolyn R]

That is a nice looking chap even if he were pink with green polka dots!

Sabino seems to be the mixer of choice for the funky overo patterns. That was the overwhelming input a few years back when I had inquired here and privately to those that had a good amount of resulting loud overo foals.

So, is someone beginning to search for a new lady for her handsome man, HMMMMMMM?

 

[targetsmom]

He is indeed handsome so I wouldn't care what color the foals were... I breed for pintos so I would cross with LWO negative mares with tobiano or other pinto patterns. But like Carolyn, I am happy with a nice, correct, HEALTHY foal of any color.. or should I say I WOULD BE happy with that...

 

[SampleMM]

That is a nice looking chap even if he were pink with green polka dots!

Sabino seems to be the mixer of choice for the funky overo patterns. That was the overwhelming input a few years back when I had inquired here and privately to those that had a good amount of resulting loud overo foals.

So, is someone beginning to search for a new lady for her handsome man, HMMMMMMM?

Thanks Caroline that's sweet but honestly, I am really not looking just trying to educate myself. I actually prefer a solid color horse but the pintos are growing on me.

Targetsmom, believe me I totally understand where you are coming from. I know the pain all too well.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

OK, this is my THIRD attempt- I am losing patience with this Forum eating my answers!

Sabino or Splash seems to be the way to go, but even if you know the mare is not Frame, test her, you already know from your handsome boy, how well Frame can "hide"

 

[Mona]

He is absolutely GORGEOUS!! And this is also a perfect example of why color testing for LWO is so important...just looking at that boy, one would never know he carries frame. I am assuming you tested due to his bloodlines??

 

[SampleMM]

He is absolutely GORGEOUS!! And this is also a perfect example of why color testing for LWO is so important...just looking at that boy, one would never know he carries frame. I am assuming you tested due to his bloodlines??

Thanks Mona and Rabbitsfizz.

I had him tested because his breeder had told me that his dam had produced a lethal white and she's solid too. So, consequently, I knew I better have him tested before breeding anyone to him. You are right about testing Mona. If I hadn't gotten a heads up, I may have had a big problem because visually you would never think he's a frame.

 

[jsites]

I just wanted to mention that I alway test horses with Rowdy in their pedigree. I love the Rowdy line but you have to be careful.

I bred my visual frame overo stallion Awesome (grandson of Rowdy) to four mares last year. Two mares were solid and they both had solid foals. One mare was splash and they had a visual frame. The fourth mare was tovero and she had a tovero foal. So no I don't match Awesome with solid mares if I'm hoping to produce color....but that is Awesome your boy may be different.

 

[kaprikorn]

Well, I. . like yourself, came from a QH world amd I also discovered that I have a LWO+ stallion to my suprise. I had all my girls tested and all are LWO-. . so he is safe with them. Two of them have pinto dams but they are solid. . .so who knows. But I do know never. . .never. . .never cross + to + unless you are willing to risk a 25% chance of a lethal white foal that dies just for color. I am not ! Too hard on the heart for me.

I see your stallion is hiding his overo gene as is mine. . .sneeky little gene it is. . .

I would think it best to have a + stallion as someone mentioned. . .more chances to see what he produces color wise. . .good luck. . .oh, very pretty buckskin I might add !