GastroGuard VS UlcerGuard ~ He is eating grain!

[JMS Miniatures]

Currently treating a horse with ulcers. First tube of UlcerGuard he was doing alot better. Once we finished the tube he went back down hill again. So vet said to put him back on UlcerGuard for another 3 weeks and if doesn't get better the next couple of day to call them again. Well he had improved slightly but not near as well as he did the first time. The last couple of days he was really off and on eating grain today he just didn't want to eat grain at all. So I called the vet and asked if I could get something better but he gave me some med thats suppose to soothe the ulcer, 2 tabs 3xs a day. I've been doing research and people have said that if you want to actually treat the ulcer you need GastroGuard. I asked my vet about it but he said UlcerGuard should do the same thing, even tho it says on the box its suppose to prevent not treat ulcers. I asked if they even had GastroGuard and they don't so not sure where I could even get it. I don't know how their could be much difference between the 2 since their both the same ingredient.

He was on the mini feed but vet and others thinks he just isn't digesting it very well. Considering how his hair coat got real dull I think I have to agree with them, which is really frusterating and hoped this feed would work. So right now he is just getting a handfull of StaySTRONG a low starch mineral, vitamin, electrolyte and a digestive aid supplement two times a day and he is struggling to eat that. I'm giving him alfalfa/timothy hay in front of him 24/7. I also bought him a immune building supplement that also helps clean up his digestive tract and has been known to help horses prone to ulcers or digestive upsets called Karbo Combo.

When he gets all better I won't go back to the mini feed. Going to feed him a product called PrimeGLO thats suppose to help horses that have digestive upsets and I would only have to feed half of what I was feeding with the mini feed so that way he can have more room to eat hay.

I'm just really worried about him. I wish I could just see signs of improvement. I want to trust my vet but my gut tells me he needs to be on something different since he has not shown much improvement this whole week.

UPDATE: He got checked out and I mean they did everything too him. Physical, perfect, no signs of him being sore or have any lameness issues. Bloodwork, perfect. Fecal, perfect. Scoped perfect. He says this horse is the picture of perfect health. He also says that the mini feed may have totally screwed his metabolism and go on more of a high fat but low starch low carb diet and get him back on track. He also wants me to put him on a supplement called Platinum Performance to help him along and there has been great results with this supplement. So no more mini feed around here. I'm just glad overall he is medically normal.

 

[Ashley]

Ulcerguard isn’t for treating ulcers. YEs they have the same ingredients, however in different doses.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Ulcerguard isn’t for treating ulcers. YEs they have the same ingredients, however in different doses.

So giving him the UlcerGuard for 3 weeks might be for nothing?

I can go to a different vet thats an hour away so he can get scoped and they said they have GastroGuard but I have to keep food away from him for 24 hrs and water for 12. In his condition I hate to do that let alone have a hour trailer drive. Do you think he could handle that?

 

[Ashley]

Honestly I would keep grain away from him for a very very long time. When my stallion had issues I pretty much totally took him off grain and only fed hay/hay pellets and beat pulp to him. If you do decide to give him grain he needs to be off it until the ulcers are healed or your only going to make them more upset

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Even if it was just a handful of mineral pellets, the reason I've been giving it cause it says its also a digestive aid.

 

[jayne]

The StayStrong is not a grain, but a metabolic mineral supplement. I feed it and think it is a wonderful product. My vet and my farriers have each commented on the healthiness of my horses since they have been on it.

As far as the UlcerGuard or GastroGuard....search the files here for other discussions on ulcers. There has been some great information on them. GastroGuard's main ingredient is omeprazole and people have been able to find ways to deliver that medicine without having to pay the high price of the name brand product. It IS good though. Ranitidine is another good drug as well.

All I can say is to keep doing your research and make sure he gets and stays on something to heal his stomach. He'll tell you when he's ready to eat grain again (I don't consider soaked beet pulp grain, but think of it as another way to deliver a type of fiber that is digested in the hind gut, not earlier in the digestive process like oats and other grains). I found my ulcer pony did best when he could eat grass until he was feeling better.

Good luck with your sweet boy. I know how hard it is when one isn't feeling well. ~jayne

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Thank you.

So still trying to do research if the UlcerGuard is no different than GastroGuard just the dosage is different should I up the dose? Right now he is getting half of a regular dose of UlcerGuard and should weigh near 300#s. Also how much should I give of the Ranitidine? I looked on the invoice and the drug he is now getting for 5 days along with the UlcerGuard is a sucralfate. Hopefully that will help him.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Ulcergard and gastrogard are the SAME EXACT THING. Im currently treating a horse for ulcers too, who I switched to the mini feed about 30 days before he really went downhill. Probably a coincidence. Anyway, the reason one is sold as an ulcer preventative and one is marketed for ulcer treatment is because of the markings on the tube. Each tube contains the exact same thing, and the same amount of it. In a big horse, to TREAT ulcers, you use an entire tube, and the tube is marked for such. In big horses to PREVENT ulcers you use 1/4 of a tube.

Ive used gastrogard and ulcergard while treating my guy, simply because I can get ulcergard $10 a tube cheaper, but when he first got sick I didnt want to wait on shipping, so bought a couple tubes of gastrogard from my vet.

You do not up the dose, as both tubes contain the same amount of medicine. (just to treat the horse vs. prevent you give more). In a mini to treat its generally 4 doses, to prevent its 8. My guy is 300lbs instead of the 250, so I get slightly less out of a tube.

The correct dose for your horse should be the next notch after the weight or dose line, thats the 300# line.

The sucrulfate your vet has you giving seems to be a low dose for his weight. Normally you give 1 tablet per 100lbs of horse. My guy got 3 tables, 3 times a day. You need to give the sucrulfate at least 30 minutes before the gastrogard or ulcergard, it requires stomach acid to work.

 

[Eagle]

Thank you Mydaddysjag. I am experiencing ulcers for the first time at the moment. This was the third week of taking gastroguard, hay and beet pulp, (this keeps him happy whilst his buddy gets his grain also he is so used to getting a bucket of food and I can't stand those "puppy dog eyes" when I don't give it to him

)

He was also on Ranitidine for a week but he is off that now as he is doing so much better.

My guy had a dull coat, a bloated tummy, wrinkled nose, pale gums and he was aggressive, now he is much better and is starting to look good again.

One thing I strongly advice is to load up your horse and go and weigh him, it is impossible to guess the weight of a mini and this can make all the difference in giving medication, plus Gastrogard is sooooo expensive that you really don''t want to waste it by giving him too much.

Good luck, I hope your guy gets better soon.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I second every word of mydaddysjag's post. They are the same thing packaged with different dose markings and the reason we all say to treat (not prevent) with Ulcergard is because one of those conveniently-premarked 1/4 tube doses is perfect to treat a 250lb mini and it's cheaper than the other tube. My vet told me he'd need to be on it for at least a week before I was likely to see any improvement and for a really bad case I found I needed to keep him on it for more than 30 days and taper off the dose after that to keep the problem from immediately coming back.

If it were my horse I'd take him off any unnecessary supplements and focus on returning his gut to health first. Carbs, minerals, all of those are complications he doesn't need and apparently doesn't want right now. Keep up the free-choice hay and graze him as often as you can to perk his appetite. Talk to your vet about using an equine antacid product like U-Gard pellets or Neigh Lox and see if that's going to do the same thing as the prescription tablets or if it would be an additional help. They won't treat the ulcer but if they reduce his immediate pain he'll be able to eat more comfortably while the real meds do their work and they will help keep the ulcer from returning after treatment ends.

I'm so sorry to hear your little man is going through this. I know how heart sore you get watching them struggle to eat!

Leia

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Like said, Gastogard and Ulcergard are the SAME tube, EXACTLY. The ONLY difference is the label and the dosage. To use "Gastrogard" give a full tube for a 1200lbs animal. For "Ulcergard", give that same animal 1/3 (or maybe 1/4 a tube? I don't remember) of a tube. Yes, one dosage is to "cure" ulcers, the other to "prevent" but its the same drug, in the same concentration, coming off the same assembly line

Only difference is the label.

 

[Becky]

As has been said, UlcerGuard and GastroGuard are exactly the same thing. Only difference is the label.

I use UlcerGuard to treat ulcers quite successfully. On a 250lb or smaller horse, I give 4 notches on the tube one a day. While UlcerGuard works well on stomach ulcers, many horses also have intestinal ulcers and Ranitidine is more effective on those. I use 3 150 mg tabs 2 - 3 times a day on a horse that's symptomatic. If the horse is clearly showing discomfort, I add Sucralfate to the mix. 2 X day. Is that what you are using? It coats the ulcers so they can heal. On my smaller horses, 1/2 tab 2 X day is effective.

I would take the horse off of all grain and supplements. Use a very basic diet. Hay, especially alfalfa, works best as does grazing. Green grass really helps ulcer cases and gets the horse back to eating. If you must feed something other than hay, I would use alfalfa pellets.

There are a lot of ulcer preventative products on the market, but honestly, I think most are a waste of your money. I have been giving Aloe Vera juice to my show horses this year and none have shown ulcer symptoms. Whether that is a coincidence or it's actually helping, I really don't know. I'm giving 15cc 2 x day in their feed. Aloe Vera is supposed to help to regulate the mucosa of the gut lining.

Good luck and I hope you can get your guy pulled through.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Green grass really helps ulcer cases and gets the horse back to eating.

Do not mean to hijack the topic, but the grazing comment struck me. When mine had the blister bug poisoning several weeks ago I really began to worry about ulcers. Even after he was eating again he was cranky and not his old self. Fortunately, we had some rain and the pasture greened up. He has 24/7 pasture and I am thinking the grazing completed the healing from the blister bug. I had let him out to graze also on the green native grass by the house that we kept watered, before the rain came.

I had called the vet about ulcers, but I don't think he took it seriously. Checked at the pharmacy for the products recommended on the Forum for ulcers but was not knowledgeable/comfortable enough to buy it and dose him without the vet instructions. I believe if he hadnt' been able to graze he would have been very ill indeed.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

So should I keep giving him half of a regular dose of UlcerGuard or give him a full dose for a big horse to "PREVENT" it? He's only getting 3 notches. He is on the sucralfate just 2 tabs 3 times a day. Vet said to wait 30 min after you give the UlcerGuard before you give the tabs. Makes more sense to me to give it before. So it sounds like the vet may be underdosing him just a tad? He should weigh between 250-300 pds.

He seemed to be a lil better this morning. He sort of got excited for the pellets and started eating more willingly and even tried to fight off the ones around him. At the end it took a lil effort to finish the last remaining few of the pellets. Who knows how he will act tonight but hopefully being on the sucralfate he will start to feel better. I've been giving the pellets because my vet said to go ahead and give him something but didn't want him on the mini feed. I just don't have that much pasture for him to graze on all I have everything is pretty much dead since the start of this week.

 

[Eagle]

I use UlcerGuard to treat ulcers quite successfully. On a 250lb or smaller horse, I give 4 notches on the tube one a day. While UlcerGuard works well on stomach ulcers, many horses also have intestinal ulcers and Ranitidine is more effective on those. I use 3 150 mg tabs 2 - 3 times a day on a horse that's symptomatic. If the horse is clearly showing discomfort, I add Sucralfate to the mix. 2 X day. Is that what you are using? It coats the ulcers so they can heal. On my smaller horses, 1/2 tab 2 X day is effective.

Becky would a vet have to establish if a horse is suffering from intestinal ulcers or are the signs different? My vet told me not to give both Gastrogard and Ranitidine together. Should I finish of the full cycle of gastrogard and then give him Ranitidne for a while and if so how long?

I apologise for hijacking the thread with my questions

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Becky would a vet have to establish if a horse is suffering from intestinal ulcers or are the signs different? My vet told me not to give both Gastrogard and Ranitidine together. Should I finish of the full cycle of gastrogard and then give him Ranitidne for a while and if so how long?

I apologise for hijacking the thread with my questions

Not at all, this is my first time dealing with ulcers so anything I can learn the better.

 

[Eagle]

thanks for being so understanding

This is all new to me too

 

[mydaddysjag]

Ulcergard - give him 1 "notch" past the line that says "dose 1" "dose 2" "dose 3" or "dose 4"

Gastrogard - Give him 1 "notch" past the line that says "250" "500" "750" and then I just use the rest of the tube as the last dose.

You will not overdose with gastrogard/ulcergard, but if your under dosing, you might as well not be using it.

If you dont have pasture or fresh alfalfa, it would probably be beneficial to give him some soaked alfalfa pellets. Alfalfa is high in calcium, and soothes the stomach naturally. Kind of like humans taking tums for a stomach ache. The only things my ulcer horse is eating is a mash of alfalfa pellets with 2oz of oil, timothy/alfalfa mix hay, and ulcergard. (He finished up his sucrulfate already).

I did a ton of reading and consulted my vet quite a bit, after his diagnosis. You'll find that a lot of people recommend different things, and different medications. Myself, with a horse who was having digestive issues, I wanted to keep everything simple. Forage (his hay and hay pellets), a medication that reduces acid, and a medication that coats the ulcer so it can heal. I also gave oil because I didnt want him losing a lot of weight going into winter, and there has been some research that shows oil can help colon ulcers. He wasnt diagnosed with colon ulcers, but oil really isnt going to hurt. I use canola oil or flax oil. I sometimes think people add too many medications all at once and dont honestly know which medication is actually working.

My guy improved quite a bit as far as eating, drinking, and pooping within 4 days on the ulcergard, and showed a much bigger improvement when we added the sucrulfate. He still had an attitude problem until a few days ago though, but I dont attribute that to being sick, I attribute it to being sick of me giving him meds 4x a day. Now that hes down to just ulcergard once a day, hes much happier.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Ranitidene can slow the absorption of other medications- I would think that is why your Vet is saying not to sue it, but, honestly, as someone who takes it, long term, herself, I would say that so long as you give the other medication first, wait half an hour or an hour and give the Ranitidene then, you should be fine - I have to take quite an array of medication, but I really need the Ranitidene, so I just have to work it in with the rest of the stuff!

I would do a Google and see if Omiprazalone is compatible with Ranitiden...

 

[Becky]

While I'm not a vet, I've had a lot of firsthand experience with ulcers in horses and I know what has worked for me.

I dose UlcerGuard at 4 notches 1 X day. 5 notches is the preventive dose for a full size horse and we have calculated that 4 notches is a treatment dose for the average size under 34" miniature.

I've been told by multiple vets to use both Ranitidine and UlcerGuard on a horse with active ulcers. As far as I know, one would not be able to tell the difference in the location of the ulcers, be they stomach or intestinal, by symptoms. Therefore, treat for both.

I give Ranitidine and Sucralfate before feeding the horse. A couple of hours after feeding in the morning, I give UlcerGuard. Personally, I've never had to use Sucralfate more than 3 days. It relieves symptoms quickly and gets the horse back to eating fast.

Generally one tube of UlcerGuard has gotten my horse(s) past the ulcers when used in conjuction with Ranitidine. Occasionally it takes 2 tubes. I continue to use Ranitidine for at least 10 days after I finish the UlcerGuard.

Green grass and alfalfa are the best feeds with a horse showing ulcer symptoms.

Miniature horses are either more prone to ulcers than full size horses or are more symptomatic. Many of the equine vets here want to treat for a variety of things, but it's always been ulcers in the end.