Gelding Getting Aggressive

[Jenny]

I'm 5'7". This is great, I'll definitely try the "big bear" technique, at least until I get the crop

 

[AnnaC]

I do so agree with the 'BIG BEAR' moves!! Face on, tall and angry and a very fast move FORWARD into his space is the answer - oh and dont forget the LOUD GRRRRRRRRRRRRR or GERONIMO (!!) as you surge forwards (always makes you feel better to give a loud 'battle cry' LOL!!) And yes, watch out for the natural kick out from him as he turns away - this is where a long dressage whip would be useful just to give him a 'sting' on a back leg - between hock and buttock, dont bop him on the top of his botty as with a winter coat he probably wont feel it!!

I would also add that as he pauses and turns to regard/watch you, retain your agressive stance - that 'come on, do you want to try that again' look, watching him carefully so that, as soon as he starts to relax you can do the same and he will read that you are 'happy' with his relaxing and a lesson will have been learned.

The first time you do the BIG BEAR is the most important one - under the cirmstances he will not be expecting it (having 'terrorised' you in the past, so a really strong BIG BEAR is going to catch him seriously on the hop and really give him something to think about.

Good luck!!

 

[Little ones]

Jenny,

I totally agree with everything that was said- you must get control and be the "alpha mare". The only other suggestion I have is regarding his diet. Young horses, not working very hard, and getting high sugar treats and grain tend to make them very hyperactive, especially in this weather. Since my horses work from early spring to fall on show routines, I increase grain and even add vitamins for energy. You might consider decreasing his grain feeding and increasing hay for a while, until this situation is under control. Just a thought....

 

[Jenny]

Thank you! I got a long whip today, and I carry it whenever I go up to the barn now. I haven't had to use it yet as he's being very well behaved today and very calm. But I'll continue to carry the whip as I'm pretty sure he will try something again in the future.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Good luck...I tuck my crop under my arm, so it is handy, if I need it. Have really needed it yet, other than to tap her bottom to get her walking, when she has refused.

 

[Marty]

I'm going to be different here:

I really feel this is not the horse for you. If this horse has scared you so badly you had to hide in the barn from him, this is wrong on every level. I would never advise any beginner to put a whip in their hands. You do not know how to use it at all and when to use it and you can be the one to end up hurt. You simply cannot experiement with this without a professional at your side. showing you what to do exactly and when to do it. In order to execute this properly you need to be able to read his body language 100 percent and be able to anticipate.

I have seen many times what it does to people who are scared of their horses. They get so depressed and to where they don't want to even go out there anymore and deal with it at all. And of course, you cannot enjoy your horse whatsoever if you are so scared of him. I would highly advise you do one of two things:

1. Put yourself and your horse in the hands of a trainer and both take basic lessons

or

2. Sell this horse and get a horse who is a little older who has already been trained who will follow you around and be your best buddy. A horse you can spend a lot of time having fun with.

Please understand I am not trying to insult you in any way, but help you.

Best wishes.

 

[AnnaC]

In a way I have to agree with you Marty, especially about the importance of being able to read body language. However I was also hoping that the first 'stand up to him' might just work as he seemed to be such a sweet ideal first horse in the beginning (although the report that he was not always easy to catch/headcollar does bother me!)

I did wonder if the folk that Jenny got him from might be able to help?

 

[madmax]

May I add a wee bit of advice as well, you have been given a lot of good advice, but I will say that I am not a fan of using the whip except in an extreme circumstance, carrying one 'in case ' is wise, but you should not be using fear to control your horse, but gaining RESPECT. Of course that is an ongoing behavior on your part, the big bear or the 1000 pound gorilla is very good and helps stop his behavior at the moment and that is used daily. But for now your need is to show him that you can take his space anytime you desire, and that he cannot take yours.

This is a well known training technique - take him into his closed paddock, at liberty (keep your whip to feel safe). Wherever he stands you walk over casually, not in a threatening manner, and make him move and you take his space. Do this over and over and every day and do not let him take the space where you are standing. Wait until he stops and faces you and repeat. If he comes to you make sure he keeps a respectful distance. You could have another person with you if you feel safer at first.

In a herd dynamic, the dominate horses can stand and eat wherever they please, and less dominate horses will move away and let them, you need to establish you are the boss in this way. When I am watching my horses and they move and let the boss, or higher ranking than they are take their space, their faces show that they are not afraid, but showing subservience.

My guys are well behaved, but when something is going awry, I use my voice loudly, I am fond of saying

"Hey!!Cut it out!!" of "Hey!! Stop it!! and they do, more or less stopping in their tracks looking surprised because they are accustomed to me speaking to them in a friendly manner. I use my voice.

Please be careful. You will get your confidence if you remember that everyone starts at the beginning in handing horses, you are not the first one to get that first horse and to understand the horse's mind.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I'm going to be different here:

I really feel this is not the horse for you. If this horse has scared you so badly you had to hide in the barn from him, this is wrong on every level. I would never advise any beginner to put a whip in their hands. You do not know how to use it at all and when to use it and you can be the one to end up hurt. You simply cannot experiement with this without a professional at your side. showing you what to do exactly and when to do it. In order to execute this properly you need to be able to read his body language 100 percent and be able to anticipate.

I have seen many times what it does to people who are scared of their horses. They get so depressed and to where they don't want to even go out there anymore and deal with it at all. And of course, you cannot enjoy your horse whatsoever if you are so scared of him. I would highly advise you do one of two things:

1. Put yourself and your horse in the hands of a trainer and both take basic lessons

or

2. Sell this horse and get a horse who is a little older who has already been trained who will follow you around and be your best buddy. A horse you can spend a lot of time having fun with.

Please understand I am not trying to insult you in any way, but help you.

Best wishes.

Ditto.

Remember, there is a horse for every person. With the market nowadays, I don't feel like there is any excuse to own an animal that isn't a totally 1000% perfect fit.

Just because he's "difficult" doesn't mean no one will want him! Some people (like myself) do extremely well with dominant horses. I love them - in fact the only horse I've ever sold was a middle of the pack older gelding. I went from a big bad boss mare as a teen, to a dead broke easy to handle gelding, missed the bond I can only achieve with a higher ranking horse, sold him, and bought my current guy - a very dominant then practically unhandled miniature stallion that came with a TON of habits like the ones you describe that's now as gentle as a kitten - but the fire is still there when i need it to be! Once you get a boss horse (like the guy you're describing) on "your side" and as your "friend," and you can direct that spirit into a job - my lord, its a bond like no other.

If you don't want to "give up" on him, it has been time to consult a professional for awhile now.

 

[Jenny]

I understand completely what you are saying Marty and FurstPlace, I'm not quite ready to give up just yet though. Since I've started this topic he's been very calm and well-behaved, but i know that he could have another day like the one before and it could be dangerous. If he doesn't improve after a while, I'm afraid I may have to sell him, but I'm hoping for the best right now. There aren't any professionals here that could help, at least not close. I can't tell my parents to start paying for a professional trainer to come out here. They were a little reluctant with this horse thing in the first place (they're not horse people AT ALL).

I have a question. Do you think that having him with another mini would help this situation? Maybe an older one that can put him in his place or teach him some manners? I'm not saying that I can get a second mini for sure, but I just wanted to hear if this would help

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

A trainer would be cheaper than a second mini. It might help, or you could end up with two little monsters!

Good luck with your horse.

 

[MyMiniGal]

I guess where I'm at with her situation, is even if she decides to find a home for him and find another mini, she has to keep herself safe, in the meantime, as she still has to take care of him, so carrying a whip around and hitting him on the shoulder, or hind quarters, is going to help her out. Of course, never use a whip/crop on their face.

 

[AnnaC]

A second mini would probably help with using up some of his excess energy, but they could really bond together and this could lead him to taking less notice of you. Or, as has been said above, the second one could learn from him and you could end up with two little 'problems'!

While he's having a 'good time' session, do a much as you can with him - what about a couple of poles in his field (or outside) to play trotting games over, or how about getting him one of those big play balls to keep him entertained in his paddock? Try to think of some interesting things that you can do with him to make your time together fun while still asking him to stop, start, turn etc so you can keep impressing your authority as 'boss Mum'! But dont take any risks, be careful, without letting him sense that you are aware/watching him if possible, and keep a close lookout for any small changes in his behaviour or attitude.

Good luck - I really hope it turns out ok for both of you.

 

[disneyhorse]

While a buddy might help some things, a horse is always trying to hope for alpha in ALL members of the herd. Now that he's alpha over you he's not going to want to give up that position easily.

Please find a trainer to show you how to be the herd leader, whether your herd is just one horse or eventually two.

 

[Marty]

MiniHGal Walking around with a whip and giving a crack on the hindquarters could easily cause a reflex action of a kick to fire out.

 

[Jenny]

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the advice, I don't know what I'd do without this forum

I just came to realization that I should have come to a while ago. I started him on a new grain a few weeks ago (not exactly sure when), and he didn't have any grain before that, just the occasional handful of oats. I think this may be a very contributing factor in his newfound energy/aggression. It was really dumb that I did not think of this before...

So I'm considering changing his whole feeding program. He will be slowly weaned off his grain (I have to finish the rest of the bag anyways). Do you think he would need a vitamin supplement? He didn't have anything before the new grain and he was healthy and happy. I only started him on the grain just to get him the vitamins he needed, I should have thought about the extra energy he would get from it.

Also, he eats soaked timothy/alfalfa cubes instead of hay and he scarfs it down really quickly so I'm planning on slowly transitioning to normal hay in a "Hay Pillow" so he can eat for a lot more of the day. As for the hay, should I go with grass/alfalfa or just grass? Any type of grass hay you have preference to? The hay dealer I'm looking into has 2nd cut orchard, 1st or 2nd cut timothy, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd cut local grass mix, or 2nd cut alfalfa/grass mix. They said the 1st cut local is "not super coarse, good pony hay", would that be a good choice? Their website says that the local hay is usually a mix of orchard, brome, blue grass, and in rare cases a bit of alfalfa.

And finally the "Hay Pillow". Any reviews on this slow feeder? It sounds like the mini size would work well for him.

I'm so sorry i'm bombarding you guys with questions! I'm not expecting that a change in his feed will completely solve his problem at all, but if it helps even a little bit, it will be well worth it. I can't thank everyone enough for all the input

 

[MyMiniGal]

I sort of meant, for her to feel safe. Wasn't meaning she should just crack him with the whip, just because. That wasn't my meaning, at all.

If you keep him, I am like others, that you should take some lessons. I had a lesson with a trainer and Halo today, and even though it was for ground driving, she helped me with so much other things, and things I just needed fine tuning and and other things, that I just wasn't doing right. So now I have lots to work on with Halo before I get to ground driving her, but it will all be working towards that goal...I still get to put a surcingle on her, and use a rein to teach a few things. Anyway, it was super fun, learned a lot. So if you could find someone to help you like that, it will benefit you with this horse or even the next one you may be getting. And I agree, food has a lot to do with things. If it was me, I would be backing off the alfalfa as that is suppose to make some horses hot, but I don't know, as I don't have the experience that way.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

The issue is not that he's too fresh. The issue is that he has zero respect for you and wants to dominate you. Sorry, but I REALLY doubt changing feed will help - and even if it does, I don't care if my horse is fresh, I can tolerate some silliness or lack of attention maybe, but if he's being unsafe or if he attacked me like you described, there would a VERY big issue. You don't let a child punch you because they had a lot of sugar, right? Don't make excuses for him.

And, this will probably not be taken well, but I am generally anti whip, and in an extreme case like the one described, very pro a smack in the face. Another horse won't avoid his face if he attacked them, I don't make it a point to either. He tried to do the same thing to you, didn't he? Watch how stallions fight, its all bite in the face in the beginning. Abuse and unjustified, constant smacks make a horse headshy, not one reprimand for an extreme misbehavior.It goes without saying to avoid the eyes at all cost, but the end of the nose or the muzzle in general is a good spot to get his attention but not do any damage.

I don't like using a whip because horses are smart. The second you get rid of that whip, many regress right back to their old habits. Also, I make it a point not to use a training tool for punishment, a whip is meant to be an extension of my arm, not a smacker, many are not meant to be a smacker! Crops are, however, they are too short for my liking. If I'm going to hit a horse, its with my hand. Plus, I find it hard to get out of the way if needed with a sort stick or whip in my arms. Personal preference is probably most of my reason. However, I have a lot of experience with boss and aggressive horses. However, I work with livestock for a living - 100% of my income is with animals. Sorry, no horse is as intimidating to me as a 3000lb bull that wants me dead. I know what Im doing with my body language and the 4 or 5 times I've ever had to really hit a horse, its been for a reason just like you described; once was for charging me in a field, another was for hardcore I want you dead style biting, another was for trying to attack a horse I was leading (same one that charged in the field), once was for flirting with a mare and nearly running me over in the process, and the other was for striking me. All would be met with another horse biting back, or kicking. My 5 foot 1" self probably isnt going to hit as hard as another horse would kick with hind shoes on!.

When I first got my stallion, he had the kahonies to strike me once when I asked him to back up. That is a HUGE no no in my book. You do not intentionally try to hurt me I immediately kicked him in the chest, dug my nails into his nose hard enough ot get his attention but not leave a mark, and yelled in my voice that can back down a bull every 4 letter word in the book. Just like another stallion, I struck back, squealed, and bit him in the face! Whole ordeal lasted about a millisecond though. The look on his face was priceless, especially when I immediately went back to calmly asking him what I wanted like it never happened. Massive attitude adjustment came from it, and all his other disrespect issues magically stopped. Funny how that worked. Was it what the natural horsemanship junkies would've wanted? Nope. But no other stallion would shake a rope at him and play a "game." I put it in his language, just to make sure nothing got lost in translation.

The main point is to never stay mad. If I have to hit a horse, I drop it immediately after. Staying angry is just as scary to a horse as being hit! Remember, you are not "fighting" him, you are not "beating" him, you are a dignified disciplinarian and you must act like such!

You need a trainer. NO beginner can do it alone. Any that says they can is either creating a ton of problems, is lying, or doesn't care. Don't make excuses for him. Its time to be tougher. You will be hurt if you do not stop this behavior ASAP. You need to work on this behavior so you don't have to hit him and the problem doesnt keep coming up! I like showmanship for respect issues, as most of it is how responsive your horse it to getting out of your space. A horse that tries to hurt you isnt fun, and horses are for FUN!

 

[jess - bentley]

Do you have a picture of him? lol after all this talk was just curious what he looks like, is that him in your profile picture? How tall is he? Get your vet first and just check to make sure he is totally gelded. Then a trainer sounds like a good idea and another mini for him to play with would be good because then he would probably stop coming after you. Good Luck!

 

[Jenny]

Yes that is him in my profile picture. He is 36" I think.

Here are some pictures:

Non-snowy



Snowy