Gelding Proposal

[LaVern]

I have given a guy good mares that were going to go over (39-40 incles) with lots of little pedigree. He takes wonderful care of them and uses a little hackney looking grade stallion that can really pick them up. He has never registered a thing, but does a good job and is able to sell the offspring -100 bucks. Some of them because of the dams, are staying plenty small to hardship in. And I know that with the right trainer they could knock the socks off of anything I can raise for driving. I can see people specifically going out and looking for these farm if they were able to hardship them in. National Grand Champion Open here we come.

What does that say to breeders?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

First let me say I have absolutely NO axe to grind here.

If the Mini is a breed then non registered animals are not that breed and, irrespective of their height, never will be.

If it is a height registry then great, your friend is onto a winner!

But I thoughtthe intention was to make it a breed?

Some years ago I bred part bred Arabs.

They looked and acted like pure breds, and a good few of them were actually more "Araby" than a lot of pure breds, then or now.

Was there any point to this?

No, because they were not, nor would they ever be, pure breds and would never have full papers.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I can see your point of view on hardshipping unregistered geldings. I was for this proposal but now changing my mind. The other proposal allowing to hardship registered geldings for $50 I'm ok with. BUT if the proposal to allow unregistered geldings take place and they can do so for just $50 I would not be happy with.

 

[Minimor]

I do agree with you Renee--I don't think this proposed rule regarding the open hardshipping of geldings is a good thing at all.

I was thinking about this last night. Suppose someone has a gelding for sale for a decent price--a good quality, AMHR registered gelding. Say he is priced at $800. Someone comes along and makes an offer to buy that horse--without papers--for a much lower price. Buyer says they don't need papers, they just want a fun horse to drive around home, they offer a great home but don't have much money to spend. Suppose the seller agrees to let that horse go without his papers for the $200. Can the buyer then take that "unregistered" gelding and hardship him into AMHR for that special reduced gelding hardship fee???

 

[LaVern]

Minimor, I had not even thought of that. Why show a Little Acres gelding when you can show one with your own name on it for 50 or even 200,000 dollars. I changed the amount because that should not have anything to do with it. Some have that kind of money to spend on anything they want to win and that is not fair, in my opinion.

 

[LaVern]

Holy Crow Mary Lou, I can feel and hear the wind as you pass me.

 

[Sue_C.]

Some years ago I bred part bred Arabs.They looked and acted like pure breds, and a good few of them were actually more "Araby" than a lot of pure breds, then or now.

Was there any point to this?

No, because they were not, nor would they ever be, pure breds and would never have full papers.

At least a part-bred Arabian can be registered as such...so it isn't the same thing.

I DO agree with BOTH registerries allowing $50 gelding "hardshipping", if the horse is already registered with either the AMHA or AMHR; but feel it is a slight to those of us who have invested a lot of thought, education, time and money into producing good registered geldings, to offer it to unregistered horses.

 

[Songcatcher]

.... Why show a Little Acres gelding when you can show one with your own name on it for 50 or even 200,000 dollars....

Very good thought. In a world where a show record means (almost) everthing, Throw away the papers and hardship back in with your own prefix.

 

[~Lisa~]

You can do this already cant you?

I mean you can hardship a gelding into AMHA and then right on into AMHR

Granted for more then 50 bucks but still..

 

[Devon]

I really do wish AMHR never closed hardshipping to begin with.. It is a HEIGHT breed afterall since REGISTERED animals with pedigree that go over 38" have papers stripped unlike an actual breed where you dont lose their papers.. Therefore anything under 38 should be alowed in hypothetically..

So what is it are we a breed registery or height breed registery we need to pick one and adjust accordingly.

 

[LaVern]

Not the B's.

 

[Songcatcher]

You can do this already cant you?

I mean you can hardship a gelding into AMHA and then right on into AMHR

Granted for more then 50 bucks but still..

I think it is highly unlikely you will get any Hackney crosses hardshipped into AMHA.

 

[~Lisa~]

No I realize that I was not talking about crosses like ML's

I meant a gelding being hardshipped into AMHA for what 200 bucks? and then into AMHR so you can still get a grade gelding into the registry for a all in all pretty reasonable price (although far more then the proposed 50 bucks) and I am not sure it is ruining the sale of any and all registered geldings?

 

[Jean_B]

I really do wish AMHR never closed hardshipping to begin with.. It is a HEIGHT breed afterall since REGISTERED animals with pedigree that go over 38" have papers stripped unlike an actual breed where you dont lose their papers.. Therefore anything under 38 should be alowed in hypothetically..

So what is it are we a breed registery or height breed registery we need to pick one and adjust accordingly.

Devon - you are 100% on the money. As long as an animal loses the "right" to be registered with the registry/association if it measures over 38" - it is NOT a breed - it is a height registry. Period. End of story.

 

[Eohippus]

Devon - you are 100% on the money. As long as an animal loses the "right" to be registered with the registry/association if it measures over 38" - it is NOT a breed - it is a height registry. Period. End of story.

I think the height is such a complicated thing. I don't like the papers being revoked but I think if it goes over the height limit it should be unable to be shown or bred (no foals would be registerable). Its like the QH. Quarter horses wouldn't accept horses that were paint/pinto (call it what you wish) coloring (I realize now they've changed that but still). So did that make them a color registry NOT a breed registry??

I find myself always using Quarter Horses as examples when it comes to the mini but they're so similar in the way both have started out.

Also look at some of the dog breeds with the AKC. If they have certain traits that aren't permissable they're not considered a part of the breed (I'm not positive if papers get revoked or they just can't show/be bred).

For the miniature horse height is a vital thing. If there wasn't the limit breeders would go over and at some point they would be "pony" not "miniature". I think height is just a breed qualification just like some breeds don't allow certain colors, markings, etc.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I think the height is such a complicated thing. I don't like the papers being revoked but I think if it goes over the height limit it should be unable to be shown or bred (no foals would be registerable). Its like the QH. Quarter horses wouldn't accept horses that were paint/pinto (call it what you wish) coloring (I realize now they've changed that but still). So did that make them a color registry NOT a breed registry??

For the miniature horse height is a vital thing. If there wasn't the limit breeders would go over and at some point they would be "pony" not "miniature". I think height is just a breed qualification just like some breeds don't allow certain colors, markings, etc.

If they couldn't be shown OR bred their papers would be essentially useless anyway so what difference would it make to pull them?

If the AMHR had a specific breed description in which height could also play a part it would solve a lot of problems.

I am very much in agreement with Lavern though, allowing hardshipping of geldings for such a ridiculously low fee or even at any price, would be financially devastating and morally insulting to our breeders. And I also agree with Devon - we need to decide if we are an actual breed or a height registry only.

 

[Minimor]

Yes, it is possible now to hardship a grade gelding into AMHA and then right on into AMHR, but it still costs enough that it's not going to have much impact on breeders that are trying to raise and sell good geldings for decent prices. And as someone pointed out, if the gelding is over 34" then the hardship-to-AMHA-and-then-to-AMHR option isn't available. Besides price, it isn't always that easy to get a horse hardshipped into AMHA. Here, for instance, there are no AMHR shows & no AMHA directors--anyone that wants to hardship a horse into AMHA has to haul to Calgary or one of the other Alberta shows....a 12 hour drive each way--or else you have to haul down into the US. Not sure where the nearest AMHA show is, Minneapolis perhaps, but it would mean a drive of several hours. Not too many people are going to go to that much effort to get a gelding into AMHR.

It's quite a different thing if the rules were to change so that a grade gelding could get AMHR papers for a mere $50. Suddenly this province has two shows where the horse can be measured by a steward, and when it is that cheap and easy to register a grade gelding, it may very well have more impact on those breeders trying to raise and sell good geldings for a decent price!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

What does everyone want AMHR to be just a height registry or let it become a breed? You have to take baby steps and for them to close down hardshipping to unregistered horses was the step towards the right direction in becoming a breed. Now its my understanding they will close down AMHA and Fabella from hardshipping? I could be very wrong at that tho?

If AMHR isn't looking to become a breed then yes they need to reopen it back up again. Cause if all we are going to be is a height registry then we need to let those that are under 38" come in. Of course not for just $50.

 

[LaVern]

You guys this is getting to be almost more than I can bare. It is not about the height or if we are a breed or not. It is about good, honest breeders and the pride we take in being a member of AMHR, and having our horses registered with AMHR. There are days when I am so proud of what we have accomplished, without much help from our leaders, in fact a lot of it despite our leaders,that my heart just swells.

Look what we have done. We are the envy of the world, in the small equine industry. And we as AMHR breeders and proud AMHR owners have been used and abused and still come out on top. And mainly because of what we are. Sure we have a few that misuse and cheat, but basically we are what is best about American. Stick to it, play by the rules and always have respect for the other guy.

Everybody wants to be part of AMHR.

Well, now there is a proposal to take that away and say it is all for naught. Your pedigree is nothing. Your stud reports are nothing,

If this would pass, by the few that can go to convention and then be okayed by the board, simply because they like to make the squeakers happy, why would I ever register a gelding again. I might as well knock the little boys on the head when they are born, as our Registry would be telling me that is all they are worth. Please think about this.

 

[dannigirl]

Didn't read all the posts and realize I was just repeating. Sorry.