Gelding those colts.

[susanne]

I've heard of vets giving large farms a discount for "gelding parties". I would hope that they would give a similar quantity discount to an organized group of mini owners.

LB could be an online resource for those wishing to arrange such groups with their vets. Those in the know could provide info on how they arrange such groups, how they broached the issue with the vet, the type of farm/venue that is needed, what sort of discount might be reasonable...

Obviously costs would vary by area and vet, but a percentage discount might apply to different circumstances.

Perhaps LB could team up with local AMHR/AMH clubs to set up these "parties." Vets could receive publicity/advertising in exchnge for their services.

We could call it "The Great Jewel Heist"...

 

[Riverrose28]

That sounds good, but my vet will only geld two per visit.

 

[susanne]

That sounds good, but my vet will only geld two per visit.

I'm sure individul vets would have their specific policies, but I've read about different vets doing this. It would probably be best to have more than one vet, depending on the number of horses.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

We could call it "The Great Jewel Heist"...

I arranged for my newest addition to be gelded before he came here. The previous owner had been using him as a breeding stallion and seemed confused why I insisted he MUST be gelded for the deal to happen. She even offered to pay for it later if I still wanted it done,nope, do it now, I don't need another stallion and the 2 I have altho well bred, nicely conformed and good tempered horses will be done soon to. I just need to wait for the weather to cooperate so they have dry lots instead of mud holes.

That and collect the $300 + each to have them done.

 

[midnight star stables]

I'm pro-gelding here.

I own no stallions, four mares and two(one to be) geldings. I have my first foal this year and she was YEARS in the making and well planned for. I used an outside stallion for the best quality I could afford. Other that that foal, I do not breed. I did buy a colt this year too, maybe of the best bred horses I've ever owned, and he'll make me a great show gelding next year.

My other gelding (as are all but one of my horses) is a top show horse, with a successful show career with a HOF, National Top Ten, Multi Canadian All-Star Champion and All-Star top ten. I love geldings and always to promote the best in our breed!

 

[Wings]

I love stallions, but to me part of loving stallions is knowing when they are worth it! I feel rather strongly about quality control on stallions and not only do I want excellent conformation I want perfect temprement.

No colt HAS to keep his jewels in place and great colts make fantastic geldings. My vet already knows if my mares pop out five colts he will have a very busy day here. I will only keep a colt if I would breed from him and if he goes up for sale it will be at a price that reflects his worth. I'm also thinking of offering a low cost training package with any of my geldings to encourage people to try out the show ring with their new boys!

 

[Mini~Madness]

So my question is do you have to wait for a colt to drop before he can be gelded or is it really a vet decision if they would take that on? I wonder this because I was told that you had to wait until the colt "drops" and that sometimes that can be as long as age 2 or more. So how could all these people selling the babies responsibly sell geldings instead of stallions if they have to wait so long? Just curious...

I love stallions, but to me part of loving stallions is knowing when they are worth it! I feel rather strongly about quality control on stallions and not only do I want excellent conformation I want perfect temprement.

No colt HAS to keep his jewels in place and great colts make fantastic geldings. My vet already knows if my mares pop out five colts he will have a very busy day here. I will only keep a colt if I would breed from him and if he goes up for sale it will be at a price that reflects his worth. I'm also thinking of offering a low cost training package with any of my geldings to encourage people to try out the show ring with their new boys!

 

[Tremor]

So my question is do you have to wait for a colt to drop before he can be gelded or is it really a vet decision if they would take that on? I wonder this because I was told that you had to wait until the colt "drops" and that sometimes that can be as long as age 2 or more. So how could all these people selling the babies responsibly sell geldings instead of stallions if they have to wait so long? Just curious...

Often times colts are born with their testicles desended. Then they go back up where they'll drop down again. I've heard of vets gelding at less than a week old.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

So my question is do you have to wait for a colt to drop before he can be gelded or is it really a vet decision if they would take that on? I wonder this because I was told that you had to wait until the colt "drops" and that sometimes that can be as long as age 2 or more. So how could all these people selling the babies responsibly sell geldings instead of stallions if they have to wait so long? Just curious...

If the ring isn't fully closed then complications could arise. I had a 4-5 month old colt gelded. Unfortuantly he wasn't ready and his intestines came out. If there was no body there to help he would have died. I am very fortuanate that I still have him and he is a healthy 3 year old. But it wasn't worth gelding him so early. I've had a 2 month old colt gelded and he came out fine but not worth the chance. I would definitively try by their yearling year.

Remeber everyone its not just the stallions the mares have just as big of a responsibility as the stallions do in producing good foals.

I think both registeries are doing good jobs in promoting gelding. I wish AMHR would talk more about their program cause I haven't thought about nominating cause I thought I was too late, may nominate my one then.

I think its just best to breed less and enjoy those foals and try to get the best out of each one. And like someone said before if you can't afford to geld them then you shouldn't be breeding.

All I got is geldings, if I get a new horse it will be a filly to show, but right now I'm not looking for a stallion, I rather send her out to breed her.

 

[Katiean]

I would geld if it were not so darned expensive here. My vet gave me an estimate for $550 base price. He is not a cript. They did the exam for AMHA. I do not have that kind of money just sticking out of my pockets so I guess he gets to keep his jewels a bit longer.

 

[Wings]

So my question is do you have to wait for a colt to drop before he can be gelded or is it really a vet decision if they would take that on? I wonder this because I was told that you had to wait until the colt "drops" and that sometimes that can be as long as age 2 or more. So how could all these people selling the babies responsibly sell geldings instead of stallions if they have to wait so long? Just curious...

I'm very much a 'do things when they are ready' kind of person. If the boys aren't ready at weaning time they'll wait a bit longer until they are. The longer a horse is with me the more training I'll put on him until he is sold.

My colt from last year was done at 7 months, he had dropped and the process was trouble free. He bounced back from it with no fuss!

I find most of the people I talk to want geldings, they want them fuss free and no thoughts of "breeding!" to distract them from whatever they are doing. I of course do everything I can to encourage this prefrence!

 

[Mini Paradise]

I am completely a believer that if your horse is not WINNING in the AMHA or AMHR show ring (halter or performance) or other driving events, then they do not need to be reproducing.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this statement. I've been to enought shows, including Nationals (haven't been to Worlds yet) and have seen many outstanding horses that don't get placed simply because they are not being shown by a well known trainer/handler. I have also seen where a top breeder/trainer's horse gets sold to a smaller farm and not place as well as it did when it was shown by that breeder/trainer. You can take any of your horses that wasn't placing well and place it with a top trainer and I bet you your horse WILL start placing. Seen it happen many times.

 

[RhineStone]

I am completely a believer that if your horse is not WINNING in the AMHA or AMHR show ring (halter or performance) or other driving events, then they do not need to be reproducing.

I understand that the breed rings are more about conformation than performance, and I agree with this statement to a degree. I don't like to see crooked, ugly horses bred because they have the ability to reproduce but no other abilities! We just bred a (big) mare to an approved German Riding Pony who has a record in performance arenas (ridden and driven dressage and CDEs), but not the conformation shows. That is not the route his owners wanted to take him. (Of, course, he had to go through "inspection", which is somewhat like a conformation class.) Personally, I find halter classes BORING.

I would be much more for the "inspection" route that judges the horses against more of a standard instead of each other where politics can come into play. (I suppose politics can come into play in some inspections, too. We are dealing with people of course...)

We haven't found out if our mare settled yet, but if she did, we intend to drive the resulting foal, so we also have a specific purpose for the breeding, not just because we want a "cute baby". I'd so much rather deal with a "grown" horse than a baby anyway, where you have to get it grown up before you can actually do anything with it (like drive it for real). I'd like to skip the rotten "teenage" years and avoid getting kicked and bitten, too!

I wish that mini geldings were as popular as big horse geldings. We hope to produce performance horses that will appeal to people not just interested in making more minis.

:yeah

The other day, a friend asked me if I know of anyone specifically breeding for the driving market (not just minis). I only know of a few, which is unfortunate. Why are there not more mini breeders breeding for the performance market? We propagate our own problem question of, "What do you do with them?" if we only breed for the halter ring.

 

[Riverrose28]

Well as a breeder and show person I got into breeding for halter only but bought two stallions that throw beautiful driving type horses. Only problem is, we are seniors and haven't invested the time into driving, so we can't train. If I advertise as a potental driving horse the feed back I get is: Are they trained yet? No, but the price reflects that, also if you train or get a trainer you are promoting my farm name. Well the buyers want trained driving horses. Ok I get that, but if I pay to have said horse trained the price will go up and the buyers don't want that either. Also some people sell geldings at a reduced price, Why? It costs the same to bring them into the world and then the cost of gelding. I do appreciate the fact that AMHR has a gelding incentive, and we have won money on that, but both registries need to do more, such as reduce the price of registration if the colt is gelded and on another thought, in my opinion only the best should remain a stallion, problem is if the breeder can't afford to pay a professional handler their horse is not going to place well at AMHA, and it's moving into AMHR as well. For many years we paid a Pro, but now can not, due to the economy and slack market. The registries need more promotional class for breeders, and amatuers that show without a trainer. Anyone that has shown will know that a Prfessional will bring a trained horse out of the ring and hand it off to an amatuer or youth, it's not fair to the small guys that don't have that advantage and discourages many from showing or getting into the business. Also I've been to Nationals and several times, and in classes that my horses weren't entered in sat and watched, I've seen judges place horses that toe out but shown by a pro over horses with straight legs, Politics. I love geldings they are great we have many and this fall will have many more, I'm hoping the registries will expand the promotion of them.

 

[targetsmom]

Why are there not more mini breeders breeding for the performance market? We propagate our own problem question of, "What do you do with them?" if we only breed for the halter ring.

Yes, I agree and that is exactly why we are trying to breed "miniature sport horses". But then, our first live foal (our colt Max) was doing pretty well in the halter show ring - shown mostly by a Level 1 Ammy (me) and never by a pro trainer, which makes me EXTRA proud. So I think you can breed for both performance and halter (but performance is a lot more fun to show!).

BTW, I am also a senior (on Medicare) and plan to train ours for driving and other performance classes for as long as I am able.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

The other day, a friend asked me if I know of anyone specifically breeding for the driving market (not just minis). I only know of a few, which is unfortunate. Why are there not more mini breeders breeding for the performance market? We propagate our own problem question of, "What do you do with them?" if we only breed for the halter ring.

We actually breed for performance horses. Both of our stallions drive (and win) and one jumps VERY well. The other does extremely well in Amateur and AOTE halter. All trained by ourselves.

Also some people sell geldings at a reduced price, Why? It costs the same to bring them into the world and then the cost of gelding. I do appreciate the fact that AMHR has a gelding incentive, and we have won money on that, but both registries need to do more...

Because people won't pay $$ for a gelding. I have a AMHR/ASPC gelding for sale that I bought for $1500 a few years ago, paid $200 to geld him, and have had one offer on him- for $300. Granted, he doesn't drive yet, and I do intend to teach him as I think he'll make a STUPENDOUS CDE horse as he has such a long sweeping stride, but I just don't have time right now, and a month of 100*+ temps really crimps my style....

But when he is trained, even then I doubt I could get the $1500 out of him. So instead he gets pushed back to the bottom of the list and I work with the mares and colts. Who bring more $$ than a gelding. *sigh*

 

[DiamondShadowRanch]

People should only breed to better the breed, never to only make money.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I am completely a believer that if your horse is not WINNING in the AMHA or AMHR show ring (halter or performance) or other driving events, then they do not need to be reproducing.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this statement. I've been to enought shows, including Nationals (haven't been to Worlds yet) and have seen many outstanding horses that don't get placed simply because they are not being shown by a well known trainer/handler. I have also seen where a top breeder/trainer's horse gets sold to a smaller farm and not place as well as it did when it was shown by that breeder/trainer. You can take any of your horses that wasn't placing well and place it with a top trainer and I bet you your horse WILL start placing. Seen it happen many times.

I agree and disagree with your comment. A good judge can look thru the handler and judge just the horse. But I also agree if your horse can't win then shouldn't be breeding, jmo.

My new goal for breeding is producing versatile miniatures. One that is overall good in halter and in driving and of course hunter.

 

[shelia]

Many think if your horse doesn't win (at what level? Regional or worlds?) Then he is not breeding quality. What do those horses look like without necksweating, belly wraps ect...? I have seen some of the tricks that are used to make these horses win. What would they look like if they were allowed to run in a field on there own? The sun would fade those beautiful coats. Those white tails would get yellow. Those top horses don't look that way naturally. They won't produce foals that look like that unless they live the same life as that stallion.

You same to them "what a beautiful coat!" They may reply "It never sees the light of day." If you see what looks good just out in someones pasture, you are seeing what they really look like and what they really produce.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Other than the futurity and Super Gelding program, does AMHA or AMHR offer any other incentives?