Hand Breeding Questions!

[nnadams]

I am hand breeding all my mares that I want bred for 2012. I have hand bred mares before, but never so many, and I did not realize it could be almost as exhausting as foaliing season!!

Anyway, I have some questions as each of my mares have behaved completely different!

1) Will some mares when teased by a stallion be willing to stand and wink for the stallion when they are not really in heat?

2) Also, when a mare has come into heat and had several days of intense heat where she was seeking out and pursuing the stallion, winking and dripping discharge, and then 2 - 3 more days of not trying to get to the stallion anymore, but still lifting her tail and willing to stand for the stallion when teased, is she still in heat?

3) One of my mares is a four year old who foaled for the first time on April 13. She was pasture bred last year. I skipped her foal heat and then on May 10, 27 days after she foaled, I noticed she had her bottom pushed up against the fence to the stallion in the next field, so the next day I cleaned her up, braided her tail, and brought her into the barn to the stall of the stallion I wanted to breed her to. He was totally ready to go and she was totally ready to let him, so I let her walk into the stall and she immediately swung her tail end to him and stood. I let him go and he successfully bred her. 2 days later I tried to repeat the process, and neither one of them were interested at all! Could her heat have been that quick?? Could she have taken already?

4) I had a grey mare come into heat. I let the stallion (different stallion from above) tease her through the rails for a bit until they were both ready, I brought her in to him and then let him go. He immediately bred her. For the next 4 days, he was not interested in her at all even though she was very interestd in him. I tried everything I could think of and the "bait and switch" a few times, and nothing would work. The stallion was only interested in the mares he could not have. Finally on the 5th day, I moved them both to a lot where none of the other horses where in site and left them alone with him still not acting interested and her still in heat. Now this is 3 mornings later, I believe she is out of heat. He was acting interested in her, but she not longer was interested in him but over the last couple of days, she does have a lot of the liquid marks running down her back legs. So, obviously he did get interested right? And even though I did not see him breed her after the first time on the first day, there is a good chance that she did get bred, right? I just have to see if she comes into heat again in a couple of weeks?

Thanks for any insights and experience anyone can share. I just need some reassurance!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I don't consider myself an expert but in the interest of bumping this up I'll answer based on what I've seen in my mares;

1) I have mares who get excited and will 'wink' at stallions/geldings or mares. They are not in heat just excited to see a horse who isn't pastured with them. They are most likely to respond this way to a stallion or gelding but it does not always indicate they are in heat with my mares.

2)Most of my mares remain in heat for about 5 days.

3)I expect you missed the first part of her heat and she was coming out when you bred her. The good news here is she will have ovulated at the end of her heat so is most likely to actually settle then anyway.

4)I'd say she was bred when you weren't there to observe the act. However only time will tell if she actually took.

Good luck

 

[HGFarm]

You will find that every mare AND every stallion is different.

I can't really help you with all this, except that you will have to learn each mare's behavior, likes, dislikes, etc....

You will find that stallions have favorite mares and simply tolerate others.

Some mares do get extremely messy when in season- doesnt mean they have been bred- they just pee a lot.

If a mare is still showing signs of being in season, even if she is not chasing the stallion around the pen, I still cover her until I KNOW she has gone out and no longer accepts the stallion. I breed my mares only every other day. I dont find the need to breed them every day.

For your number 3- you may have missed the first couple of days that she was showing and just caught the end.

To your number 4 scenario, if a mare is really in season and the stallion doesnt want her, there could be a low grade infection or something going on with the mare. The stallion will know there is something going on even when everything appears normal to us. You mentioned that he seems to be interested in the other horses that he can't get to. How close is your other stallion housed to him? Some cannot stand another stallion being within 100 feet of their territory and maybe he is sidetracked or stressed out by what is going on somewhere else?

Oh, and p.s. - yes it seems to be a reflex action that some mares will wink at a stallion when he teases, tho they are certainly not in season.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Hi Mary

Trust your seasoned stallions - they know when everything is "right"

There is a lot that comes into play with a mare - far more than just "peeing and winking" - her folicle needs to be of the optimum size to ovulate, her cervix needs to be soft, her uterus needs to have edema, and on & on. All these things are going to need an ultrasound + palpation to get the correct answers, BUT, most stallions that know what they are doing will only breed when it is "appropriate". A mare really only needs to be bred once to conceive and if you stallion is experienced he probably knows when the time is "right" - generally stallions who are experienced don't waste a lot of excess energy with mares that aren't really ready, they take a snif and move on - irregardless of how much "showing" she is doing, or when WE think they should be breeding.

Mother Nature has been at this a long time - she has it all figured out (no matter what we may think about it LOL). If you do notice you stallion being savage or completely ingnoring a mare - it is probably worth your investment to have her vet checked to see if something is amiss

Just my 2 cents worth!

Stacy

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

1) Will some mares when teased by a stallion be willing to stand and wink for the stallion when they are not really in heat?

Yes, and no. If a mare is truly cycling (ie, actually ovulating) she will more often than not refuse to stand for a stallion if she is not in heat. If she is NOT cycling, yes, she can very well stand for a stallion, with or without (usually w/o) winking and urinating. This is because of a LACK of hormones (progesterone) rather than the PRESENCE of a hormone (estrogen). This is not uncommon in early spring, late fall, or in some pathological situations.

2) Also, when a mare has come into heat and had several days of intense heat where she was seeking out and pursuing the stallion, winking and dripping discharge, and then 2 - 3 more days of not trying to get to the stallion anymore, but still lifting her tail and willing to stand for the stallion when teased, is she still in heat?

Yes, since the definition of heat is "standing for the stallion". Would it be breedable? No. Chances are she ovulated before that last day or two. She no longer has the huge amounts of estrogen driving her heat, but hasn't yet produced a viable CL to produce progesterone (related to question #1).

3) One of my mares is a four year old who foaled for the first time on April 13. She was pasture bred last year. I skipped her foal heat and then on May 10, 27 days after she foaled, I noticed she had her bottom pushed up against the fence to the stallion in the next field, so the next day I cleaned her up, braided her tail, and brought her into the barn to the stall of the stallion I wanted to breed her to. He was totally ready to go and she was totally ready to let him, so I let her walk into the stall and she immediately swung her tail end to him and stood. I let him go and he successfully bred her. 2 days later I tried to repeat the process, and neither one of them were interested at all! Could her heat have been that quick?? Could she have taken already?

You may have caught her on the last day of her heat. No, she wouldn't have gotten pregnant yet, but she more than likely ovulated and needs to be preg-checked in two weeks.

4) I had a grey mare come into heat. I let the stallion (different stallion from above) tease her through the rails for a bit until they were both ready, I brought her in to him and then let him go. He immediately bred her. For the next 4 days, he was not interested in her at all even though she was very interested in him.

Some stallions are only interested in some mares. Some get picky.

Now this is 3 mornings later, I believe she is out of heat. He was acting interested in her, but she not longer was interested in him but over the last couple of days, she does have a lot of the liquid marks running down her back legs.

Urine from trying to tease him, not his fluids, more than likely.

And even though I did not see him breed her after the first time on the first day, there is a good chance that she did get bred, right?

Possibly, but not guarenteed. Many times leaving them to their own devices will allow the stallion to tease and breed in his own time in his own way, rather than the "forced" copulation when you are hand breeding.

I just have to see if she comes into heat again in a couple of weeks?

Yes.

 

[Sandy B]

Gracie and I are going through this too. Now I remember why I do not like hand breeding and love to let the vets and ultrasounds do the work (as in AI). These mini stallions are way different and way more picky then full sized stallions. Our stallion definitely has hi favorites and different breeding style depending on each mare. Some he is a lover boy, others he is a wild man, and yet others it takes him forever to get interested in. Every day we laugh at his antics and loving style.

 

[nnadams]

I don't consider myself an expert but in the interest of bumping this up I'll answer based on what I've seen in my mares;

1) I have mares who get excited and will 'wink' at stallions/geldings or mares. They are not in heat just excited to see a horse who isn't pastured with them. They are most likely to respond this way to a stallion or gelding but it does not always indicate they are in heat with my mares.

2)Most of my mares remain in heat for about 5 days.

3)I expect you missed the first part of her heat and she was coming out when you bred her. The good news here is she will have ovulated at the end of her heat so is most likely to actually settle then anyway.

4)I'd say she was bred when you weren't there to observe the act. However only time will tell if she actually took.

Good luck

Thank you so much for "bumping" me, I really do appreciate it!

And thank you for sharing your thoughts!

 

[nnadams]

You will find that every mare AND every stallion is different.

I can't really help you with all this, except that you will have to learn each mare's behavior, likes, dislikes, etc....

You will find that stallions have favorite mares and simply tolerate others.

Some mares do get extremely messy when in season- doesnt mean they have been bred- they just pee a lot.

If a mare is still showing signs of being in season, even if she is not chasing the stallion around the pen, I still cover her until I KNOW she has gone out and no longer accepts the stallion. I breed my mares only every other day. I dont find the need to breed them every day.

For your number 3- you may have missed the first couple of days that she was showing and just caught the end.

To your number 4 scenario, if a mare is really in season and the stallion doesnt want her, there could be a low grade infection or something going on with the mare. The stallion will know there is something going on even when everything appears normal to us. You mentioned that he seems to be interested in the other horses that he can't get to. How close is your other stallion housed to him? Some cannot stand another stallion being within 100 feet of their territory and maybe he is sidetracked or stressed out by what is going on somewhere else?

Oh, and p.s. - yes it seems to be a reflex action that some mares will wink at a stallion when he teases, tho they are certainly not in season.

Thank you for your reply!

The mare that has the stains down her back legs did not get them the first day that I hand bred them or the next four days when she was in the lot next to the stallion. The next day after she WAS bred, I did not try to breed them, but for the next 3 days, I tried every single day with no success. She was begging him, but she never stained her legs even though she was doing a lot of the peeing. It was not until the next 2 days AFTER that, when I removed them to a secluded lot that she got all stained. I am hoping it is his and not hers, especially because by the second day he seemed very interested in her.

My closest stallions are well over 100 feet a part

 

[nnadams]

Hi Mary

Trust your seasoned stallions - they know when everything is "right"

There is a lot that comes into play with a mare - far more than just "peeing and winking" - her folicle needs to be of the optimum size to ovulate, her cervix needs to be soft, her uterus needs to have edema, and on & on. All these things are going to need an ultrasound + palpation to get the correct answers, BUT, most stallions that know what they are doing will only breed when it is "appropriate". A mare really only needs to be bred once to conceive and if you stallion is experienced he probably knows when the time is "right" - generally stallions who are experienced don't waste a lot of excess energy with mares that aren't really ready, they take a snif and move on - irregardless of how much "showing" she is doing, or when WE think they should be breeding.

Mother Nature has been at this a long time - she has it all figured out (no matter what we may think about it LOL). If you do notice you stallion being savage or completely ingnoring a mare - it is probably worth your investment to have her vet checked to see if something is amiss

Just my 2 cents worth!

Stacy

Thank you Stacy for your "2 cents worth!"

I would like to think that my 2 senior stallions are those that just know when the time is right. I pasture bred my mares last year and these 2 boys got every mare given to them pregnant in the first month. I had 8 mares all foal in the month of April, which was perfect for me, but I did not know they would all be due in April. I decided to hand breed all the mares that I want bred so that I will KNOW for next season.

Oh, and that stallion is never savage, and he definitely was chasing her around yesterday evening very interested when a couple of friends came over to look at the horses, so I don't think she has any underlying issue going on. If she comes into heat again in a couple of weeks and the stallion acts uninterested again, I will have her checked out just to be sure.

Thanks again!

 

[nnadams]

1) Will some mares when teased by a stallion be willing to stand and wink for the stallion when they are not really in heat?

Yes, and no. If a mare is truly cycling (ie, actually ovulating) she will more often than not refuse to stand for a stallion if she is not in heat. If she is NOT cycling, yes, she can very well stand for a stallion, with or without (usually w/o) winking and urinating. This is because of a LACK of hormones (progesterone) rather than the PRESENCE of a hormone (estrogen). This is not uncommon in early spring, late fall, or in some pathological situations.

2) Also, when a mare has come into heat and had several days of intense heat where she was seeking out and pursuing the stallion, winking and dripping discharge, and then 2 - 3 more days of not trying to get to the stallion anymore, but still lifting her tail and willing to stand for the stallion when teased, is she still in heat?

Yes, since the definition of heat is "standing for the stallion". Would it be breedable? No. Chances are she ovulated before that last day or two. She no longer has the huge amounts of estrogen driving her heat, but hasn't yet produced a viable CL to produce progesterone (related to question #1).

3) One of my mares is a four year old who foaled for the first time on April 13. She was pasture bred last year. I skipped her foal heat and then on May 10, 27 days after she foaled, I noticed she had her bottom pushed up against the fence to the stallion in the next field, so the next day I cleaned her up, braided her tail, and brought her into the barn to the stall of the stallion I wanted to breed her to. He was totally ready to go and she was totally ready to let him, so I let her walk into the stall and she immediately swung her tail end to him and stood. I let him go and he successfully bred her. 2 days later I tried to repeat the process, and neither one of them were interested at all! Could her heat have been that quick?? Could she have taken already?

You may have caught her on the last day of her heat. No, she wouldn't have gotten pregnant yet, but she more than likely ovulated and needs to be preg-checked in two weeks.

4) I had a grey mare come into heat. I let the stallion (different stallion from above) tease her through the rails for a bit until they were both ready, I brought her in to him and then let him go. He immediately bred her. For the next 4 days, he was not interested in her at all even though she was very interested in him.

Some stallions are only interested in some mares. Some get picky.

Now this is 3 mornings later, I believe she is out of heat. He was acting interested in her, but she not longer was interested in him but over the last couple of days, she does have a lot of the liquid marks running down her back legs.

Urine from trying to tease him, not his fluids, more than likely.

And even though I did not see him breed her after the first time on the first day, there is a good chance that she did get bred, right?

Possibly, but not guarenteed. Many times leaving them to their own devices will allow the stallion to tease and breed in his own time in his own way, rather than the "forced" copulation when you are hand breeding.

I just have to see if she comes into heat again in a couple of weeks?

Yes.

Ahh Nathan! I knew you would have very abrupt, specific answers for me ~ THANK YOU!

I knew I could count on you!

 

[nnadams]

Gracie and I are going through this too. Now I remember why I do not like hand breeding and love to let the vets and ultrasounds do the work (as in AI). These mini stallions are way different and way more picky then full sized stallions. Our stallion definitely has hi favorites and different breeding style depending on each mare. Some he is a lover boy, others he is a wild man, and yet others it takes him forever to get interested in. Every day we laugh at his antics and loving style.

Thank you Sandy!

I am so glad Gracie is happy and laughing again