Harness Critique

[spudthemini]

Good Morning (and Happy Holidays/ Merry Christmas)!

A short background summary: Spud and I are both green to driving and need some help/tips.

Long-winded background: I purchased Spud back in September and sent him to a driving trainer. He had been harnessed and ground driven extensively before I bought him. He spent 2 months at the trainer's being broke to cart. I brought him home at the end of November and started to drive him. We haven't had any issues (other than not walking a straight line, being fussy about stopping and standing, etc) that are of major impact, just "greenness" issues. However, I am very new to driving and have never had a lesson before. Let me preface by saying there are no trainers in my area that do driving training - I have sent out multiple requests to several people to see if they could help me understanding harnessing and rigging it up to the cart, but I have so far only relied on the Trainer I sent him to (who is over 12hrs away) and articles on the web.

Yesterday I purchased two books, "Breaking & Training the Driving Horse" by Doris Ganton and "Train Your Miniature Horse to Drive" by Pat Elder. They should be arriving within the next 3-4 days.

I am just looking for a helpful critique and some pointers so my gelding and I can drive safely, efficiently, and progress in a positive manner. He is an exceptionally willing and down to work little guy and I do not want to risk ruining him or causing undue stress.



^ This was my first time rigging things up. I went without breeching because I found it confusing and wasn't sure how to attach it safely/appropriately. I can already see glaring faults with the way I've rigged it up - namely the attachment of the bellyband.

Please note that he is exceptionally fluffy so a lot of things look tight (like the throatlach).





^ Second time hitched, with the breeching.

I am going to be rigging him up again either tonight or tomorrow night and taking photos. Any input is appreciated. I can still see a lot of faults here - the way the breeching is done up, the way the bellyband is attached, etc.

Thank you in advance - both Spud and I are here to learn

 

[Marsha Cassada]

He is a pretty boy.

I would lower the tug wraps so the shafts are more level, and shorten the neck strap a little to bring the breast collar up higher.

The breeching doesn't look just right; are the buckles that far back under his tail, or is there somewhere to adjust?

Pull that browband down so it does not crowd his ears so much.

So glad you are driving and enjoying your horse!

 

[Jules]

Congrats on getting Spud driving! Well done. Marsha seems to have covered most points.

I will try and dig up some photos of my guys harnessed so you can see my breeching in case that may be useful.

The drivers view one may be useful.

The side-on photo is from two years ago and his breastcollar/false martingale is not sitting right as I hadn't adjusted it after using the harness for my other pony- so ignore that part, the breeching is right for him though. lol

Good first try, I think I nearly fainted when I got my first harness in the mail...so many straps!!! ;-)

 

[spudthemini]

Thank you very much for your replies, ladies.

And thank you for being so kind in your critiques

I am certainly trying!!

Marsha - I'll have to see how else the breeching can be adjusted; it was frustrating me and I'm not even sure how it sat the way it did in the photos...

Jules - Thank you for the photos

I'll re-rig him up either tonight or tomorrow and post some more photos!

 

[paintponylvr]

Spudthemini - WELCOME to driving mini horses and to the Lil Beginnings Driving Forum (& forum as a whole).

Soooo - can we get your name and where you are from? There may be folks here that can help "hook you up" w/ others that can help you!! You'd be surprised how many groups there are out there that are around that you don't know about.

Great choice in two books! Think you'll like both and they'll help in the years to come of driving as handy references once you get things "down pat".

The very first pic - I was wondering what was going on... Marsha has it right on, I think, so I don't really have anything to add.

Here's a pic of a harness that "may" be more similar to yours? It almost looks like you back strap/crupper are too long, and the breeching itself much too short/small to reach around his hindquarters. The two rings on the breeching should be about in his flank area...

The harness on this cremello filly is a bit small in the breeching and too long (at the time of the pic) In the back strap/crupper adjustment. Took a while to get the crupper adjusted right (enough holes and then a smaller crupper itself). Never did really fit her with a proper breeching for her (I either had way too big or this one...). We ended up selling her before I got a new breeching.The strap hanging down by her hind leg is the "hold back" strap. The "extra" straps up by her front leg(s) are the wrap straps and because I hadn't shifted the left one, they are both visible on the right side... 2nd pic taken same day - you can see the breeching sitting level here and the shaft loop on the saddle/surcingle. The left side hold back strap is flopping under her belly where you can't really see it....

Here she is wearing a borrowed harness that fit her better in the breeching area. The hold back strap is attached to the straps that will be part of the wrap system on the shafts. She is not wearing a breast collar here.

and here you can see how it all looks when the breast collar is on (this is back in my mini betathane harness that has some parts too big for this mare and the breeching about 2" too short). The cart has been pushed forward to show her what it feels like to have everything pull tight and she is expected to stop it and stand still...

When everything is adjusted pretty much correctly (except again, our breeching is too short) - everything will be in line and you shouldn't be able to see the breast collar, traces and breeching.

I hope this helped a little bit?

Can't wait to see your new pics!

Have fun learning to drive - don't get too frustrated. I too, was amazed at the number of straps involved w/ harnessing a pony!! So much easier to saddle a horse and go...

 

[shorthorsemom]

Hard to tell with all the hair, but are your traces under the girth? Probably not, but from my angle of viewing they look like they might be running under the girth. If they are, you do not want them there.

welcome. I bet I posted 20 photos to the forum for adjustments and tweeks of my harness before I got a "well done". best wishes.

PS. I know you did not ask for safety tips, but I can't help mentioning that it is not really safe to have a horse put to harness and cart and standing loose, even to snap photos. It would be safer to have someone at his head "just in case". If you and your horse are both green I thought I would mention. He looks very cute and very quiet and I know you will have a bunch of fun together.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

PS. I know you did not ask for safety tips, but I can't help mentioning that it is not really safe to have a horse put to harness and cart and standing loose, even to snap photos. It would be safer to have someone at his head "just in case". If you and your horse are both green I thought I would mention. He looks very cute and very quiet and I know you will have a bunch of fun together.

I was thinking that too. What a nice, well-mannered, well-trained horse to stand so quietly for a photo shoot!

 

[jeanniecogan]

i feel that you mentioning the horse not going straight needs to be addressed. you need to keep a connection with him at all times, this means that you have to have contact with his mouth through the reins. he needs to feel your hands. not tight, but you must let him feel your hands. my minis can be turned or backed with only a twitch from my baby fingers. also whoa. you must talk to your horse , it gives him confidence. don't forget he can't see much with the blinkers on and needs to know he can depend on your hands to keep him (and you) out of trouble.

im not describing this very well, if anyone else wants to jump in with the description of contact. go ahead. it sounds like you will have a lot of fun with him, i adore my minis and driving is still a thrill.

 

[spudthemini]

Firstly, to address some of the comments:

Soooo - can we get your name and where you are from? There may be folks here that can help "hook you up" w/ others that can help you!! You'd be surprised how many groups there are out there that are around that you don't know about.

I am uncomfortable disclosing my entire location, but you could say I am close to "Terrace, British Columbia".

Hard to tell with all the hair, but are your traces under the girth?

It does kind of look like that, actually! But no, they are run between the wrap straps.

I can't help mentioning that it is not really safe to have a horse put to harness and cart and standing loose, even to snap photos

Thank you for the comment - I will try and not do that again. I believe it is also grounds for disqualification from a driving show, correct?

i feel that you mentioning the horse not going straight needs to be addressed. you need to keep a connection with him at all times,

Yes, I understand what you are meaning. However, please note that Spud is very green to driving, as am I. I do find that when I am not supporting him or actively "riding" him, he tends to drift. I don't blame him entirely - I know there is fault of my own there as well. He seems to get steadier and steadier the more we drive, which comes from his greenness. It is much like a green riding horse, I find - they wiggle when they walk and unless the rider is constantly "supporting" them, they fall out and fidget. Admittedly, I am not very good with the "support" thing sometimes.

I also have some a lot more updated photos.

And my own predictions on my findings?

My breeching does not fit... not even a little bit.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

There seems to be something very odd about the way your breeching is built. It seems to be long enough but the attachment for the hanger straps is in an odd place. I think you need to either find a new one or have someone who is good at working with leather readjust that one. Other than that your hitching seems pretty good. I might be inclined to drop the tugs (the loop the shaft sits in- if you are still struggling with the names of harness parts) a hole but they aren't much hi and dropping them might actually leave them too low. Only trying it and looking at the results would answer that.

Yes you are correct about being disqualified for tying a hitched horse, in fact in some places you would be asked to leave the grounds. I too am occasionally guilty of tying one at home tho, I often hitch/drive alone and there is just no other choice sometimes, just remember that it could be a disaster if you hitched horse panics tho.

I am not so very far from you, in Prince George, still to far to pop over in an afternoon but at least in the same part of the province .

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My first breeching was sort of like that. I was never happy with it, though I used it that way for several years. Finally had a new one made. You might be able to get a shoe repair guy to move the buckle over for you.

I think almost all drivers have a tweaked harness. The only thing original on mine is the saddle and the bridle!

I, too, work alone and have to tie my hitched horse. One just needs to know one's own horse and the circumstances. But it is good to know that it is not allowed at a show--it would be bad to get disqualified just because one did not know the rules!

I was taking a class once and the instructor told me to get out of the cart and walk behind. I was afraid it was a trick question; that she was trying to find out if I knew better than to get out of a hitched cart! But it was legit, she wanted me to ground drive behind the cart. Made me nervous, though.

What a handsome, sweet horse! Lucky you!

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

This may the same harness I have just bought and yes the breaching does seem to sit funny. It's not long enough around the bottom and considering most minis have ample bottoms I would have thought it would be larger lol

 

[Silver City Heritage Farmstead]

I keep looking at this breeching that doesn't look like a breeching. Is it possible that they sent two breast collars by mistake?? The holdback straps seem very long. Do they buckle into the breeching? Do your traces buckle into the breast collar?

Looks like the other adjustments are working well. You are to be commended for continuing training the REAL winter Canada has!! I'll admit I'm a whiner....40° farenheit with rain and I feed and run back inside!! (See me running with a big "WIMP!" sign over my head.) LOL

 

[Minimor]

Definitely get a longer breeching. I would also suggest a longer browband--that one looks much too short. I have learned to get those two parts custom made when I order a harness -- harness makes are generally stingey on both!

Tying a hitched horse is one thing--leaving him standing completely loose while you step back to take a photo is much more dangerous--you could never get to him in time to stop him if for some reason he were to spook and bolt.

 

[shorthorsemom]

My trainer was a stickler that I was to never attach the cart to my horse unless the bridle was on and the reins were safely in my hands. She had me put the reins on my arm like the handle of a purse. I had to move all around the horse without ever letting go of my reins while I hooked everything up.

Make sure your blinkers are centered on the eyes and not rubbing on the eyebrow. Since you don't have rein guides you can run them under the breast collar strap that goes over the top to keep them safely elevated. Doesn't take much if your reins are hanging low for a horse to get a leg over one. Horses can pull off the bridle in a blink.

There was a really good discussion on harnessing on this forum a ways back about order of harnessing and safety tips. Will try to find and post a link.

Your horse is cute, is he appy?

I had a special larger very adjustable halter made that buckled over the nose and the head and it fit right over my bridle but could be also adjusted down in size to use just as a halter once my bridle was off.. My trainer would have given me heck if I took my bridle off and tied my horse while my cart was still attached.

just sharing safety tips... not being critical.

Someday you might have a horse not so forgiving of error. My boy whom I used to drive was very alert to my every error. The second I dropped my outside rein even a little bit on a turn, he was quick to give me a buck for it. If I had ever stopped and backed up to take a photo with my boy put to the cart... I would have been watching a nightmare unfold. Your boy looks very sweet. my driving boy whom I love dearly earned the name "the little stinker" Tough horses do teach you a lot. that's for sure

 

[shorthorsemom]

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?/topic/122936-how-to-harness-your-horse-alone/

I think this might help

 

[spudthemini]

Thank you everyone for the comments and help - I really do appreciate it!

You might be able to get a shoe repair guy to move the buckle over for you.

it's not long enough around the bottom and considering most minis have ample bottoms I would have thought it would be larger lol

I keep looking at this breeching that doesn't look like a breeching. Is it possible that they sent two breast collars by mistake??

Thank you for the comments, ladies! It does seem as though the top portion of the leather is able to fit, but the portion that goes around his rump is wayy too small/tight. DragonsWishFarm - it is a breeching. The holdback straps that attach to the Footmans Loop aren't long enough to reach back to the cart.

Definitely get a longer breeching. I would also suggest a longer browband--that one looks much too short.

For sure. I actually have been planning on ordering a new harness altogether - a Comfy Fit harness

Just have to get my measurements and work a bit extra to save up, LOL.

Tying a hitched horse is one thing--leaving him standing completely loose while you step back to take a photo is much more dangerous--you could never get to him in time to stop him if for some reason he were to spook and bolt.

trainer was a stickler that I was to never attach the cart to my horse unless the bridle was on and the reins were safely in my hands.

Your horse is cute, is he appy?



I had a special larger very adjustable halter made that buckled over the nose and the head and it fit right over my bridle but could be also adjusted down in size to use just as a halter once my bridle was off.. My trainer would have given me heck if I took my bridle off and tied my horse while my cart was still attached.

just sharing safety tips... not being critical.

Someday you might have a horse not so forgiving of error. My boy whom I used to drive was very alert to my every error. The second I dropped my outside rein even a little bit on a turn, he was quick to give me a buck for it. If I had ever stopped and backed up to take a photo with my boy put to the cart... I would have been watching a nightmare unfold. Your boy looks very sweet. my driving boy whom I love dearly earned the name "the little stinker" Tough horses do teach you a lot. that's for sure

It seems as though there are fourteen ways of doing things - I can certainly appreciate that! I do understand the risks associated with leaving him completely hitched untied - in my mind, is more dangerous than tying him in a halter hitched. I do know that in the harness world, it is generally a large faux pas (as I am finding out!) to tie a hitched horse, and to leave a hitched horse unattended. For the way I work with Spud and the thing that makes the most sense, and is the most safest for us, the viable option is to tie him with a halter to harness/rig him up and bridle him last - I have not gotten a detatchable halter, which is soon to be an investment!

I have read the thread you have provided - thank you for the influx of information. I will try to add some of the suggestions in the thread to my hitching/unhitching routine.

And yes, he is an Appy. Five years old.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I love appys

 

[Marsha Cassada]

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?/topic/122936-how-to-harness-your-horse-alone/

I think this might help

Ah! I miss all those members! What exciting discussions we had then! They weren't always sunshiney, but they were always informative and inspiring.

 

[spudthemini]

Thanks ladies

I really appreciate everyone's input and help in all of this. Thank you again