Height discrepancy on purchased horse

[mmmorgans]

I am sure that lots of purchasers have been disappointed, upset, betrayed when they have purchased a horse represented as an AMHA/AMHR horse that is under 34" - only to have the horse arrive after a very long trailer ride to find that the said horse is much taller than represented (e.g. 36").

If a horse is purchased as an AMHA/AMHR registered horse - permanently registered under 34" - what do you do when the horse is clearly and unmistakenly over the "A" size?

AMHA won't do anything about it - and their answer is to send in the AMHA papers so that they can be revoked. But I bought a double registered horse???!!!! The breeder insists the horse is only 34 - but there is no way that this horse could possibly by only 34". I have had several people over to measure this horse - and there is no mistaking the 36" mark on the measuring stick - no matter what.

What can a person do know? I feel totally betrayed - totally used - and will likely never buy another horse again.

What would you do?

 

[dreaminmini]

That really sucks. Sorry you are in this situation. Have you talked to the breeder at all, explain that the horse is measuring 36" and see if they can rectify the situation? If needed, you could even go so far as to take it to a show and have it measured by a steward as someone impartial to the both of you. Or take a picture of the stick with the measurement on the horse. A good breeder should make this right. As well, does the horse need a trim, have quite a bit of coat. Those can affect a measurement too. You may already know this but minis are measured at the last hair of their mane not their withers like a full size horse. Maybe go back and double check where you measured from.

If it is AMHR as well, you can still show but just as a "B" horse.

Not sure how helpful this was but I hope it all works out for you.

 

[Sue_C.]

AMHA won't do anything about it - and their answer is to send in the AMHA papers so that they can be revoked.

Personally, I feel that the "thing" being revoked, should be the seller's Membership and adding a two years suspension would hit them hard enough that this will stop. THIS IS FRAUD... I don't mean the occasional mistake...or in a case where the seller will "fess-up" and make good, by giving the $$ back, or offering a substantial discount...but in cases such as this, where the buyer is left "holding the bag" so to speak, after spending the $$$ on a registered horse, only to find out it is not so. I get so sick of reading these posts. Why are these sellers not held accountable...and don't anyone come back with that old adage "buyer beware", as that is a particular peeve of mine as well. that is bull-puckie...and you all know it.

 

[mydaddysjag]

36 is really a big difference. That said, I do have an honest 34" horse that I can get as an over horse, depending on several factors. Hes exactly 34" when his feet are freshly trimmed, and has been measured by sho stewards at that height for his entire life, with the exception of when trainers have let him grow a lot of foot to get him to show over.

That said, some things that can affect height are hooves, if they are too long, or if a farrier is leaving a ton of heel, condition, if a horse is thick in the neck or cresty, Ive seen that affect height as well a little. Is the horse relaxed when being measured? Ive had colts who tense up and measure taller, Ive had to lunge certain horses before they get measured just to settle them down a little so they can relax to be measured. In my experience, a tense horse measures taller, I have a colt who has measured up to 1/2" different depending on if hes tense or relaxed. Ive seen horses go over by an inch due to being fat out of pasture and having their feet not trimmed, or not trimmed correctly. Im guessing this isnt your issue, but just pointing out a few things that can make a horse measure taller.

 

[LAminiatures]

Sorry this happened to you, but if it makes you feel better your not a lone. Don't let this discourage you from buying another mini.

I went to look at a colt that was advertised as A/R registered. Funny because when I drove 5 hours to see him and he was only R registered and had an A application. I was taken to the stallion barn to meet his sire and he was 37 inches tall. Needless to say it was love at first sight and the conditions he was kept in were awful. I brought him home and yes he grew to 36 inches tall. The farm I purchased him from is now out of business. Things catch up to people, please don't give up because you will only be cheating yourself of these wonderful little horses.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I have a pet mini that his former owner said was 32 inches...I get him closer to 34 when I measure but after a trim and after a work out he measures shorter.closer to 33 inches. I swear he can flex up and down by an inch or more so if he were say 34 when I got him under the right conditions say when he is all puffed up and being silly looking at something he would have measured over. I think this always the case with minis that measure right on the height requirement. I don't breed so I cant really express how I would feel if this were a stallion I had purchased for my program.. I am sure that would drive me crazy. If he is indeed way over I would think a good breeder would offer a price reduction due to single vs double registry.. best wishes for a non painful solution for u...just curious..what is his personality like? Is he a sweet mini and worth keeping regardless of the b only registry? My guy is a little stinker but for some reason I love him to bits and I don't care how tall he is or that he has short legs and lousy conformation..some just strike you that way from the start...keepers no matter what. Take care..hope it works out for you.

 

[Lewella]

Another thing to consider - some of us will consistently measure horses taller at home than a show steward will measure them at a show. It isn't unusual for me to measure horses and inch to an inch and a half taller than a steward does just hours before a steward measures them.

 

[disneyhorse]

If its that important, get a prepurchase exam done. This is akin to buying a jumper and being told the horse was sound for jumping... But not getting a prepurchase exam.

Otherwise, it's difficult to get your money back.

Or, buy a plane ticket and measure yourself. A $300 plane ticket when buying a $5,000 horse might be worth it.

 

[Windhaven]

You are not alone! It has happened to many of us. Through the years I have learned to ask "Will this horse measure at 34" if taken to a show". Or "Is this a true 34" horse?" I have found the best thing to do is stay away from 34" advertised horses because of this. I have even bought a 33.5" horse and had it be over 34".

You must also consider EVERYONE measures different. There are MANY people that will do many things to get horses to measure at 34". Which a lot of us don't.

Best thing to do when looking to buy a horse that is 34" is have it put in the purchase contract that if the horse doesn't measure 34" you will be returning the horse for a full refund.

Sorry about your problem. Hopefully you will work something out with the seller.

 

[mshasta88]

Like many others have said, this has happened to nearly all of us L

Have you tried working the horse before measuring him?

I have a horse that has high withers giving him a naturally high head set but it makes him measure a little taller. With a fresh trimming and if I work him for about 20 minutes, he really drops his withers and measures under 34”.

 

[Genie]

Like everyone says, a lot of us have had this happen. It's a shame and "word of mouth" can be a bad thing for that seller.

It's not nice to have a reputation of being dishonest. I would call this fraud as well and it seems a shame to have to buy

a plane ticket to measure a horse.

We drove over 8 hours on a couple of occassions to ensure the horse measured as stated. Both times we came home with an empty trailers.

We drove about 11 hours the last time we purchased a horse and the horse was exactly as advertised and in fact with a trim when we got home she was smaller. Now that is nice.

If you were specifically wanting a double registered horse, then I would return the horse at the sellers expense.

 

[HGFarm]

I have had good luck with many purchases over the internet- they have all been what was stated, or actually a bit smaller. However I know MANY that have not been so lucky. If you have in email documents that the horse measured 34 or less, or even a copy of the ad stating that, perhaps you can pursue in small claims court? I have known too many people that have been ripped off by the 34" horse that really wasnt, and not even close- I can see within a half inch or so, but a couple of inches is way too much.

I do have a couple that are at 34", registered as such and really are. There is no reason to lie, other than dishonest folks trying to sell an oversized horse to someone who is trusting and getting stuck with a horse that is not what it was advertised to be. There is no mistaking a horse that much, and I will never trim one to the quick and have to work it for a half hour to try to get it measured in- either it is, or it isnt.

 

[susanne]

While the buyer should always beware, the blame lies with the SELLER, who is indeed committing fraud. While I know others mean to commiserate, it also has an unintended effect of making the less-than-honest say everyone does it. For AMHA not to come down hard on these people dramatically undermines their credibility.

BTW, I hope you post a photo of your new horse on the Photo Gallery and tell us all about him.

 

[minimomNC]

When there is a doubt at all, get it in writing. If purchasing a horse that has to be shipped to you, you can't go see it yourself and measure it yourself, get it in writing that if the horse doesn't measure where its suppose to, that the horse is to be returned to the seller at their expense. What I suggest you do now is get everything together that the seller told you, get two people to help you, stand the horse up like the rule book states and video yourself measureing the horse. Get a wide view of how the horse is standing, get a close up the where you put the stick on the last mane hairs, make sure you show the stick sitting on the ground. Get a close up of the measurement on the stick. If the horse is over 34", set the horse up like you see them do at shows and measure again also on video. Stretch that horse until you get him measured at 34". This is to show that yes you can get that measurement but its not a correct measurement. Then send it to the seller and ask what they are going to do to make it right. You should have recourse if they told you one thing and you can prove otherwise.

 

[disneyhorse]

Word of mouth helps immensely when I buy a horse. I try to stick with reputable sellers...

 

[Riverdance]

Several years ago I bought a son of Uno De mayo. (not from the person who owns him). He was 2 years old and, they said, he was 33.5". That he had been shown as a yearling. It took about 2 months to get him. The hauler told me he had never had such a difficult, nasty horse and was glad to get rid of him. I took him off the trailer and he started to bite me, kick me and strike at me. The nastiest horse I had ever dealt with. If he had been a full size horse, he would have been destroyed and he was deadly. He was also filthy with a ratty mane and tail and feet that had not been trimmed in a while. Mind you, this horse came from a known farm He is a well know trainer too. When I got a chance to measure hi, he measured in at 35.5". I measured him over and over again and could not get him under that. I called the farm I bought him from and told them that he was well over the 33.5" and incredibly nasty. I wanted to return him and use the money on another horse on their farm. They told me no, that they could not help if he grew 2" in the two months he was still on their farm.(are you kidding me, a 2 year old growing 2" in 2 months??????) That since he was over sized he was no longer worth much money. The horse was $5000...I kept him for a while to try and get him to behave. (not a chance) I ended up dumping him for $50.00. Unfortunately, there are many sellers/even trainers and larger farms, that are not honest. We all learn the hard way and are more careful with future buys.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Heres a tip for people buying horses with permenant cards. If the horse has been shown, ask the seller to scan and email a picture of the horses official measurement card. It will show everytime the horse was measured by a stewart, what it measured. I know this wont help you, but an idea for others.

 

[mmmorgans]

I had two long time breeders over yesterday - and asked them to measure this mare. They both commented about her having to be oversize - it is that obvious. So we got the measuring stick out - stood the mare - measured - mover her and measured again. She is definitely 36 - no way in the world could anyone measure her under. She is 10 years old - is perm registered with AMHA at 33. I specifically told the breeder that I only want double registered horses - I do not want just B size horses. I was very specific - and asked her how tall this mare is - her answer - in writing 33 to 34.

Never again will I trust a breeder. This is a big breeder - and one that I have know for many years. I have been totally screwed. I have had bad experiences with other breeders in the past - but didn't think this breeder would do this to me.

The registries need to be more involved with these types of things. I can understand if a horse measures at 34 1/2 - it very well could measure 34 at another time. But when a horse is so blatantly oversize it is disgusting. This mare towers over every other horse I own. She has a wonderful pedigree - she is a nice mare - but not what I wanted - and I was very clear about that.

I think that when these types of things happen - all registered offspring should have their papers revoked - then more people would be aware and these things may not happen so often.

This is not acceptable - period!!!!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

If you have it in writing that the mare would not be over 34 and are determined that you want to follow thro on this I would suggest contacting the seller and telling them you are not happy, what you want done to correct the problem and that you are prepared to take the legal route if they don't make good on this. Include photos of the horse being measured with a close up of the measurement. Then if you still can't get them to satisfy you hire a lawyer (as someone suggested earlier) to write them a letter and be prepared to follow thro with legal action if necessary. Good luck, it really sucks when deals don't work the way we expect them to.

 

[Jill]

First of all, I am sincerely sorry this happened.

While I may be in the minority, this is not something that has happened to me, and I have purchased more than just a few horses. But my rule of thumb is that I'm sold on the seller before I'm sold on the horse. So many horses out there and if I don't feel confident in the seller's honesty or knowledge (mistatements are also made out of ignorance), I don't buy. I'm sorry that this happened to you, and from someone you felt you could trust based on an existing relationship.

Many feel the registries should become involved, however, I do not feel this is the case. The reason I say so is that so many of these transactions would turn into a "he said / she said" type of scenario. Most people do not have purchase / sales contracts and why on earth would a registry want to lend itself to policing these pretty much "no-win" situations?

As to revoking the papers of offspring when a horse is over... that would be a can of worms BUT if we seriously want to have only under 34" breeding in AMHA and only under 38" breeding in AMHR, why not require that all animals are measured by a steward prior to being "released" to breed? Breeding horses isn't supposed to be easy, and it's sure not cheap anyway...