Help figuring out harness & cart specs??
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Sorry it took a couple hours, got distracted with some other horsie things, lol.
I added a hole on each side, but still seems loose, is this too loose or fine? Her tail is happily up when meandering.
Then this is point of shoulder, so upped it a hole on each side. 2nd picture is after the adjustment, which seems to have just enough space for air and shoulder.
I also adjusted the breeching after looking at a ton of pics. Seems to be close to where others put it.
It is lower than previously. What do you guys say?
I realize the water hook is backwards, it turns when in the storage tote, sorry. Also tied up straps n bits so it stayed level so I could move back and check it over.
This is one site I used to adjust breeching height.
I also put the harness on my younger mini for kicks. She kept her tail clamped and left, lol. Didn't adjust it for her, as she's still growing bunches.
I added a hole on each side, but still seems loose, is this too loose or fine? Her tail is happily up when meandering.
Then this is point of shoulder, so upped it a hole on each side. 2nd picture is after the adjustment, which seems to have just enough space for air and shoulder.
I also adjusted the breeching after looking at a ton of pics. Seems to be close to where others put it.
It is lower than previously. What do you guys say?
I realize the water hook is backwards, it turns when in the storage tote, sorry. Also tied up straps n bits so it stayed level so I could move back and check it over.
This is one site I used to adjust breeching height.
I also put the harness on my younger mini for kicks. She kept her tail clamped and left, lol. Didn't adjust it for her, as she's still growing bunches.
jventresca
Well-Known Member
I'd prefer to see the back strap shorter so the hip strap is forward, closer to the point of the hip.
I believe I've put the back strap on the shortest hole. I'll double check and add a couple if need be.I'd prefer to see the back strap shorter so the hip strap is forward, closer to the point of the hip.
lady05jv.jpg
The breeching triangles can't move, so I worry about the hip straps being pulled backwards further than they already are. Kind of makes it impossible for them to be at the hip point.
Minimor
Well-Known Member
yes, how far forward you can position the hip strap does depend on the length of the breeching itself. If you shortened the back strap any more the hip strap would then angle forward, which isn't a good thing either. For a stock harness yours fits fairly well in the breeching. Mine--I had to sell the breeching and get custom breeching made--the harness overall fit 36 to 38" horses but the breeching it came with fit perfectly on a 32" slight built horse.
MajorClementine
Well-Known Member
I don't know how others feel about pads but that breast collar is pretty narrow and IMO a pad under it will make it much more comfortable when pulling a load. I had to order a custom back strap for my harness after the harness arrived. I needed a shorter one but also needed for it to NOT pull the hip strap forward. Same problem it looks like you are having. The other thing you could do is, where the back strap is split for the crupper to attach, you could split it higher and add more holes and cut off the long ends. That way you can lengthen the back strap to where you need it for the hip strap to be in it's proper place and your crupper will fit a little better. Unless you buy a custom made harness you just have to get a little creative with ways to adjust your harness. You should see some of the "rigged" things I've done in the past.
Funny, I had the same thought!
Rotary leather punch came in.
I can try splitting the back Strap next time I fiddle with it. I'm back at riding the gelding as the weather has been awesome & he needs work.
MajorClementine
Well-Known Member
I know how hard it can be to split your time between driving the minis and riding the big guys. I've got both as well and now a team of Fjords to top it off. So many horses, so few daylight hours....
I don't know why the loop for the breeching strap is always so far back. I've had to order other back straps, just to get my breeching more forward. And why not make the breeching straps a little longer? They can always be cut off for a small or refined horse. But a larger or stockier horse needs some extra length. It can't cost that much more to add a few inches to those straps. Harnesses usually need a lot of tweaking as you go.
Secuno, I thought of you yesterday, I also have a new leather punch and could not to the life of me get it to punch through the leather. Hubby came out and looked at it and said "take the cap off..." DOH! So I did and presto, mission accomplished.
Hopefully you will do better than me. ?
I enjoyed the picture of you "leading the parade" on the other thread.
Hopefully you will do better than me. ?
I enjoyed the picture of you "leading the parade" on the other thread.
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jventresca
Well-Known Member
I keep a length of leather with my hole punch. I put the leather piece under whatever I'm putting the hole in. Then the punch can go all the way through the strap, making a clean cut. The leather piece protects the cutting edge from the "anvil" of the punch. A tack repair friend showed me this trick.
paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
I have found that a lot of the current day leather hole punches don't work well (or that I just plain lack the hand strength, these days, to use it properly?)... I found that I can use a drill bit and drill press SO much easier and can get smaller holes, too! Even just using a battery operated drill, on a bucket, out by the horse while doing adjustments work.
Sounds like others are helping you well.
I wouldn't use a pad under the breast collar - the extra width could easily cut off her air when she's pulling properly since she ties down so low into her chest. BUT others are right - that is a VERY narrow breast collar... in the future, for both of your girls, I think you will want to look at a shaped breast collar (yep, can be much more pricey - especially out of leather) or even one of the "Freedom" styled breast collars (a much deeper "v" in the middle of the chest) - either of which will allow a much better/nicer room for her neck tie in. Either of those types of breast collars usually has removable traces too, so those would also be replaced... For now, you can make your breast collar work for you. More on the breast collar in next post...
Bridle, hmmm... Well, I would start with your cleaning conditioning product. First, it will remove much of the excess die that will indeed "stain" and "drip" down your pinto. Second, it will make that stiff leather much more easy for your hands to work with and for your little girls to wear. Then, hopefully, it will lay more "quietly" (flatter, closer to her head) so that you can get proper adjustments. Can you completely remove that strap in the middle? For the life of me, I can't remember what that piece is called - It used to tie into the overcheck and in some cases still would (showring). I've always removed it. Or is it permanently attached to the crown of the bridle (and/or the blinkers?) so that the only way to remove it would be to cut it?
I used your photo - the red circles the buckle where the blinker attachment is - not sure if the blue circled part joins the blinker attachment strap or is separate? The conway buckles on the bit make it easily removable from the bit (circled in green). I do recommend a nose band. A simple "throat latch" piece from a horse bridle or a noseband or even an unfolded leather curbstrap (not sewn, full size horse) would work. The nose band, run through the attachment to the bit or right behind it, keeps the blinker portion of the bridle next to her head. Maybe not as much of a concern with yours, but ... part of proper harnessing, too. I don't think i have any close up shots of a noseband on a bridle run this way.
Sounds like others are helping you well.
I wouldn't use a pad under the breast collar - the extra width could easily cut off her air when she's pulling properly since she ties down so low into her chest. BUT others are right - that is a VERY narrow breast collar... in the future, for both of your girls, I think you will want to look at a shaped breast collar (yep, can be much more pricey - especially out of leather) or even one of the "Freedom" styled breast collars (a much deeper "v" in the middle of the chest) - either of which will allow a much better/nicer room for her neck tie in. Either of those types of breast collars usually has removable traces too, so those would also be replaced... For now, you can make your breast collar work for you. More on the breast collar in next post...
Bridle, hmmm... Well, I would start with your cleaning conditioning product. First, it will remove much of the excess die that will indeed "stain" and "drip" down your pinto. Second, it will make that stiff leather much more easy for your hands to work with and for your little girls to wear. Then, hopefully, it will lay more "quietly" (flatter, closer to her head) so that you can get proper adjustments. Can you completely remove that strap in the middle? For the life of me, I can't remember what that piece is called - It used to tie into the overcheck and in some cases still would (showring). I've always removed it. Or is it permanently attached to the crown of the bridle (and/or the blinkers?) so that the only way to remove it would be to cut it?
I used your photo - the red circles the buckle where the blinker attachment is - not sure if the blue circled part joins the blinker attachment strap or is separate? The conway buckles on the bit make it easily removable from the bit (circled in green). I do recommend a nose band. A simple "throat latch" piece from a horse bridle or a noseband or even an unfolded leather curbstrap (not sewn, full size horse) would work. The nose band, run through the attachment to the bit or right behind it, keeps the blinker portion of the bridle next to her head. Maybe not as much of a concern with yours, but ... part of proper harnessing, too. I don't think i have any close up shots of a noseband on a bridle run this way.
paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
You may have to so some clipping/trimming of her mane/forelock to allow a proper fit. This is when a small, short bridlepath would work well. It isn't just for looks (yes, it would look better), but for SAFETY. The way your bridle is now, because its sitting atop of her hair, she could shake her head and bridle would be gone. Also, it affects the adjustments. Some of us who drive go one step further with some of our known "head shakers" and braid that forelock down and then take it over the top of the crown and braid it down tight to the top of the mane. PITA but it keeps that headshaker from removing the bridle (or halter?, smile!!)...
YES, I understand you train yours differently, but...
another drawing on your bridle - Let's see if I can make sense. The red circle denotes where the noseband would go thru the bridle, behind the bit. That buckle is also where you make adjustments for the bit. Ideally, you would have a keeper there, too, to close up that large, open loop. You can easily do that when you have the adjustments done - using a black shoestring or paracord or electrical tape if you want it to match or anything of your choosing if you're not worried about it matching. A sturdy rubber band works too. Making the lower buckle tighter would make that loop smaller BUT it looks like that would throw off the adjustments of the upper buckle.
You want the blinders to be centered over her eye and that is what the blue circle denotes (adjustment for the blinker). It looks like you can go higher on that (on the right eye?) but that would change the adjustment on the bit end, too...
One think you will find out - for just about every tweak made, there will be a 2nd corresponding tweak to be made. Meaning that if you shorten one strap on one side or part, the other side or part will need to be lengthened.
2nd edit - ADD - I went back to the pic of the full harness you have. GREAT pic, but still couldn't see exactly what I was looking for. The over the head strap is hooked to an overcheck with a "water tie", the flat leather piece, that hooks to the "water hook". The straps look to be stitched to a buckle that is then wider than the opening in the headstall to remove it (my guess - same as I've had in the past). Meaning you probably won't be able to remove it w/o cutting it somewhere...
Sorry.
YES, I understand you train yours differently, but...
another drawing on your bridle - Let's see if I can make sense. The red circle denotes where the noseband would go thru the bridle, behind the bit. That buckle is also where you make adjustments for the bit. Ideally, you would have a keeper there, too, to close up that large, open loop. You can easily do that when you have the adjustments done - using a black shoestring or paracord or electrical tape if you want it to match or anything of your choosing if you're not worried about it matching. A sturdy rubber band works too. Making the lower buckle tighter would make that loop smaller BUT it looks like that would throw off the adjustments of the upper buckle.
You want the blinders to be centered over her eye and that is what the blue circle denotes (adjustment for the blinker). It looks like you can go higher on that (on the right eye?) but that would change the adjustment on the bit end, too...
One think you will find out - for just about every tweak made, there will be a 2nd corresponding tweak to be made. Meaning that if you shorten one strap on one side or part, the other side or part will need to be lengthened.
2nd edit - ADD - I went back to the pic of the full harness you have. GREAT pic, but still couldn't see exactly what I was looking for. The over the head strap is hooked to an overcheck with a "water tie", the flat leather piece, that hooks to the "water hook". The straps look to be stitched to a buckle that is then wider than the opening in the headstall to remove it (my guess - same as I've had in the past). Meaning you probably won't be able to remove it w/o cutting it somewhere...
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paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
I don't think you want or should run your neck strap directly over the water hook. WHY? Because in your open style training and in ADS, farm or trail driving, a horse drops his head down. When the head goes down on your horse, especially when she drops it down to the ground (YES, I know desired), it puts an undo strain on that wee little, single layer, leather strap. It will eventually break, usually at the most in-opportune time, and allow the breast collar to drop to the ground - either tripping your horse into a roll or allowing her to step right over/out of it (ASK me how I know this, LOL it wasn't at the time). The roll will catapult the cart/driver and stepping over the breast collar means that your horse is no longer attached via pulling, to the cart.... BOTH potentially BAD situations. Several things can happen then... I can describe each if wanted. NO, I've not had them all happen directly to me or mine, but have seen some and understanding mechanics know how the others would happen. SHUDDER, SHUDDER.
If you want to attach the neck strap to the saddle, I would use a separate strap. Again you can make one, or use a curbstrab (this time w/o letting it out, but utilizing the keepers just like you would on a bit) or you can purchase the "neck strap holder". I believe Comfy Fit has a pic of one, I'll see if I can find it... Also, again, using your cleaning, conditioning product on the full harness will also make the breast collar/traces stop pushing the breast collar forward. Also, once she is properly hitched to a cart, that would stop...
WOW - Comfy Fit now has a new website (wasn't there a couple weeks ago) AND they now make a bitless headstall for driving (a bit pricey?)... https://chimacumtack.com/product/bridle-comfy-fit-bitless/ ... AH, I'd love a Comfy Fit harness...
The horses you see with the strap run up to the water hook in the show ring are usually higher moving horses that are also checked up. They CAN'T lower their heads to put too much pressure on the neck strap. The neck strap on Jaye's cart is also on a very differently designed breast collar that will allow the horse to put his head down (possibly all the way to the ground) w/o putting too much stress on that strap. I didn't find the strap I was looking for, but this one would work -
https://chimacumtack.com/product/pole-strap/ or this one - https://chimacumtack.com/product/trace-carriers/
Edited to add - neither of these is made for that attachment - but they would work.
If you want to attach the neck strap to the saddle, I would use a separate strap. Again you can make one, or use a curbstrab (this time w/o letting it out, but utilizing the keepers just like you would on a bit) or you can purchase the "neck strap holder". I believe Comfy Fit has a pic of one, I'll see if I can find it... Also, again, using your cleaning, conditioning product on the full harness will also make the breast collar/traces stop pushing the breast collar forward. Also, once she is properly hitched to a cart, that would stop...
WOW - Comfy Fit now has a new website (wasn't there a couple weeks ago) AND they now make a bitless headstall for driving (a bit pricey?)... https://chimacumtack.com/product/bridle-comfy-fit-bitless/ ... AH, I'd love a Comfy Fit harness...
The horses you see with the strap run up to the water hook in the show ring are usually higher moving horses that are also checked up. They CAN'T lower their heads to put too much pressure on the neck strap. The neck strap on Jaye's cart is also on a very differently designed breast collar that will allow the horse to put his head down (possibly all the way to the ground) w/o putting too much stress on that strap. I didn't find the strap I was looking for, but this one would work -
https://chimacumtack.com/product/pole-strap/ or this one - https://chimacumtack.com/product/trace-carriers/
Edited to add - neither of these is made for that attachment - but they would work.
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paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
This link is just one that shows a nice adjustment, hope it's ok to again use Chimacum's site link. While that lower buckle adjustment doesn't have a keeper on it (the loop is smaller/neater), it does have the noseband running thru the open part of the loop.
https://chimacumtack.com/product/sweetheart-bridle/
https://chimacumtack.com/product/sweetheart-bridle/
Minimor
Well-Known Member
I would hope her overcheck in no way attaches to tbe blinker strap/buckle on top the crown piece--i have never seen those 2 things connected on any bridle, and you absolutely cannot have the overcheck pulling the blinkers up. ?
I expect the entire overcheck is removable--most have the buckles on the neck piece, not on tbe straps that are meant to go through the loops on the crown piece--so they can be unbuckled and pulled free. Not sure I have ever seen a bridle with the buckles on the front straps so they cannot be removed from the headstall.
I expect the entire overcheck is removable--most have the buckles on the neck piece, not on tbe straps that are meant to go through the loops on the crown piece--so they can be unbuckled and pulled free. Not sure I have ever seen a bridle with the buckles on the front straps so they cannot be removed from the headstall.
paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
I finally found a "neck strap hook"??? Again on Chimacum's site... But this time you can look it up under pleasure harness. It's a drawn pic.
WOW, I found an OLD, archived post from 2011 (while looking at images on Google for harness, LOL). I guess I HAD stated writing here in Lil' Beginnings. Not just the American Shetland Pony Forum before it went down...
http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php/topic/127133-please-share-recent-or-old-driving-pics/page-3 LOTS of pics of our ponies from training and original driving. NOTE - not all my harness pics are correct and some will rightfully point out that that braided haystring harness is the "pits". Believe it or not - that harness (actually 2 of them) are still in use at 8 years of age!! The one had to have new traces, both now need new surcingle/saddles... But the bridles & lines, backstrap & crupper, breaching & hip straps, breast collars and traces - still going strong for training youngsters.
WOW, I found an OLD, archived post from 2011 (while looking at images on Google for harness, LOL). I guess I HAD stated writing here in Lil' Beginnings. Not just the American Shetland Pony Forum before it went down...
http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php/topic/127133-please-share-recent-or-old-driving-pics/page-3 LOTS of pics of our ponies from training and original driving. NOTE - not all my harness pics are correct and some will rightfully point out that that braided haystring harness is the "pits". Believe it or not - that harness (actually 2 of them) are still in use at 8 years of age!! The one had to have new traces, both now need new surcingle/saddles... But the bridles & lines, backstrap & crupper, breaching & hip straps, breast collars and traces - still going strong for training youngsters.
paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
on the first comment - I did once. I had it, and cut it apart. OK, it was a cheaply made, inexpensive driving headstall. What was available 30+ years ago when I was starting...
Her's appears to be made the 2nd way you mention when you look at the pic that she displayed the whole harness. BUT it doesn't look like it would be easily removed w/o cutting it somewhere due to how it is sewn to the buckle (wider there). Of course the slot it feeds thru in the crown MAY be wide enough to remove it??
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