Help PLEASE

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Hi -- Just wondering if someone here might be able to offer some insight into this. About a week ago, a little mare suddenly had a very swollen eye, swollen shut. The left side of her face was a big a baseball. Vet diagnosed a bee sting & mare was given shot to bring down swelling. I put warm compresses on her a few times a day for 20 min. each time. All seemed to be going ok. Swelling down some, mare eating again.

So, swelling seemed to come down with just one remaining area of slight swelling, (golf ball size) that was on her left cheek, right where a halter would have the noseband crossed by the cheekpiece. I thot all was going just as expected & she's be well soon.

Then, yesterday morning, I noticed that golf-ball size swelling had burst. Cleaned it. Vet came out again. He assures me it's not a tooth problem. Maybe still be some sort of insect bite. So, cleaned it with hot water & Betadine, she got an injection of antibiotics, also sprayed her sore spots with an antiseptic that sprays on but immediately turns into a powder when it hits skin.

This morning, she has THREE sites that are draining, all along that left side of her face. One is near the side of the mouth, one is below the eye socket & one is above it before the ear base. She is lethargic. She is not eating or drinking that I can tell. What could be her problem? I will call the vet again as soon as he opens this morning to come out again today. There is a stinky discharge, but not that horrible kind that comes with a tooth problem.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing or perhaps have any suggestions. The vet & myself are at a loss, other than insect bite. Just deperately seeking an answer. My vet respects my opinions & questions....if I just had some suggestion/possibility to throw at him, I'm sure he'll think long & hard about it. Thanks for any help. -- karen

 

[kaykay]

i have heard that snake bites will do this?? abcess and burst?? feel so bad for your mare! sending good thoughts

 

[Connie Ballard]

Ask him about "brat strangles"....just a thought. I've read about it...never seen it...but they say strangles can irrupt anywhere on the body when its a radical version. Any fever? Gum color good?

Is she eating? With all t his heat...I'd try to do electrolytes to keep her fluids good if she's lethargic.

Just few ideas to check.

Best to you and her!

Connie

 

[Marnie]

Did you check if she has any lumps under her checks, under her head and in the throat area? I don't think Strangles usually start on the head but maybe it could, I guess. This is just a thought. I hope this isn't it. good luck with your little mare.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

The discharge is not from nostrils. It's from the swelling sites when they break. I know strangles can burst too, but I don't think this is that. There is no swelling of the lymph nodes. Also, there's literally no horse traffic in & out of my barn & strangles is a contagion, so I don't think it's that, but I'll mention it when vet comes.

Also, kaykay, snake bite never occured to me. Our snake population has increased noticeably this year. Food for thot too..............another thing to mention to him. Do non-poisonous snakes bite?

Anyone else have any ideas? I'm open to all, believe me....................Thanks to those who have answered so far! Never heard of brat strangles either.

 

[Carol Z]

Do you have brown recluse spiders in your area? I know that they can cause tissue to necrotize (rot and die). Poor little mare. Are you giving her anything for pain?

 

[Marnie]

JFYI brat strangles is when they get it so bad that it's throughout there body, it can show up any place, it's a horrible thing. I had my vet out here almost every day, he told me that I have the honor of having the worst case he's ever seen! They can die from it, I lost one mare and one baby had it behind his eye and lost the eye. I had it about ten yrs ago and it is the worst thing to pass through a herd, JMO.

I may as well ad a little on this now that it's been stated. Even though it's probably not what your little mare has. But as far as strangles go, it can stay in the ground for a few yrs and reinfect your horses. What we did is Nate took his log skidder and pushed ground around and over and over packed it, we constantly sprayed every inch of buildings with bleach water and never got it again. We're still adament about spraying with our bleach water every yr. My vet said that alone, that we never got it again, was a miracle, I held my breath that next few yrs, thats for sure. You can also have an animal that is a carrier, doesn't show signs but passes it to others.

I'll keep your little horse in my thoughts and will check back to see what your vet thinks. Do you have pictures of it, maybe someone would recognize it better that way?

 

[Bess Kelly]

Yes, some non poisonous snakes can bite and cause swelling, etc. And, usually at the site of the bite you will have hair loss, etc., to some degree. You don't mention this but, it could be where the first burst was. Spiders can cause some nasty stuff, too.

Yes, strangles can lay dormant in the ground for years. Then, boom! Had that many, many, many years ago with my Arab. Mostly, his ran into his lymphs -- what a mess!!

Have him run a fast lab identity on the stuff coming out. It will help with what will correct it and maybe, help tell you "what" it is.

May be something in her sinus cavity -- a cyst, etc -- that has run down along the jawbone and burst. It does sound like it's coming out along the track of the jawbone from what I'm reading.

: Don't ya HATE that they can't tell you??? Call Bonnie!

:

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Ok, the weird one here....have you any emeralds?

Seriously...IF you have any emerald jewelry set it in pure water in the sunlight and leave for several hours. Then with a soft cloth folded soak it with this elixir and hold the cloth over the sores several times daily. Emerald is amazing for venomous bites be it spiders, snakes, even bees. Any open oozing wound will benefit from this.

Moss agate is another stone (but I'm sure you don't have it) that in an elixir works amazingly for open sores and fungal infections. Blue lace agate in her drinking water will encourage her to drink and heal infection from the inside, fluorite is also another that helps w/ open wounds. (I am not trying to sell anything here but some folks do have stones around and don't realize their properties.)

I'm sending a bit of Reiki to help her Karen, I hate it when they can't talk to us. I feel it is a bite, several bites. She could have rolled onto an ant hill, a bees nest, baby snakes are hatching now and they don't have to be poisonous to masticate skin & flesh. Larimar helps with the inflamation and infection also.

A picture may help more of us with helping her or at least trying to see what it is. It does not feel like strangles. My prayers are with you, I know you love your 4 footed kids so very much.

 

[Vicky Texas]

On Strangles, I have heard that it can travel as well, not sure. But if a horse up the road

has it and the winds carry it, your horses can get it. One of our stallions, Little Bits had

strangles, he ran a high fever for a week. The Vets kept him, and kept telling me NO it was

not it. I moved him to another Vet, and guess what he had it. The first Vet said no, that older

horses can not get it. WRONG. He spent another week at the Vets.

I would too, have the vet take samples of the stuff coming out and rush to a lab for testing.

To find out, what she has. With the heat, I would be concerned about her drinking water, making

sure she is getting enough. Keep her under a fan.

Our 3 year old stallion Gabriel, had a high fever, but nothing else, took him to the Vet, his entire

head was swollen. It was he is loosing baby teeth, and sinus's are infected. But no drainage.

No holes, just a swollen head, and fever. He was put antibotic's, and is fine now. So I don't think

its the same. I think a bite or strangles.

Wishing you the best, please keep us updated.

Prayers

Vicky

 

[virginia]

Possibly his sinuses are infected and down his face is the only place for it to go. Antibiotics and compresses are about the only thing that will help. Hope you find out soon what it is. These minis never run out of things to confound us with!!

Ginny StP

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sinus's

brat Strangles

Snake/Insect bite and allergic reaction to ..

All are what came to my mind.

Treatment at this stage should be roughly the same but anti-venom would not do any harm, even if it is not a snake bite- or anti-histamines if your Vet does not want to go so radical.

Have you had a blood test done??

I shall keep her in my prayers.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Sorry I've been so long in getting back, but today, of all days, our computer people at work decided to lock everyone out of "chats." Then my netscape at home wouldn't work & I had to call their tech support. After an hour of that, here I am.

The mare, Vegas, seems a little "brighter" in demeanor when I checked her last. How a horse looks overall and the attitude it carries pulls a lot of weight with me. I let her go outside in a small area, just because I have this "thing" about a horse staring at stall walls all the time they are sick. She's eating grass while standing in the shade. Her face looks about the same.

Yes, she has had antihistamines. And penacillan. And SMZ. And compresses. And flushed the area with clear water. Still working on it. I'll report back if I have any news.

I'd like to post a pix, but I can't because --- well, long story, but cam & PC don't get along, so no pix.

Thanks so much for your ideas/suggestions, prayers, Reiki. I appreciate the time each of you took to write. Poor, sweet girl........she's one of my favorites too. I just love her. She's my "baby," even tho she's grown up now. :no:

 

[CharmedMinis]

It sounds like a Brown Recluse bite to me. I have a dog who got bit and lost his leg, he had the same type of symptoms, but more severe. Where the skin is draining what does the actual tissue look like at the drain sites???

Also could be sinuses, or even an infection in her gutteral pouches. They can scope her gutterals to look, I had this done with a colt this year, it was pretty easy.

Take her temp like crazy, 3 or 4 times a day. I would also help those areas drain, compresses and try to "milk" the drainage out with your fingers. Talk to your vet about putting Ichthammol on them as well.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

[Marty]

I don't know what anyone else responded but I believe that your mare was stricken a few times by a snake. This sounds to me like classic snake bite symptoms. They can swell up and eventually blow up and burst. I've seen this a lot and especially one time my friend's horse was bitten in the cheek and around the muzzle area and in a few days her face litterally blew off because the vet attending did not administer the proper meds for a snake bite.

Besides antibiotics, activated charcoal is administered at once to keep toxins from spreading. Also for a topical Granulex spray.

A brown recluse will kill a human. That's how my brother was killed while picking fruit from his fruit trees in his own backyard. A brown recluse is often mixed up with other species of spiders that mimic their identity. A brown relcuse looks like a spider that has a "violin" on his back.

 

[Minimor]

brown recluse spider was my first thought; we don't have them here, thank goodness, so I haven't got first hand experience, but I've had people describe them to me, and the reaction to the bite is much as you describe. But, does PA have brown recluse spiders??

 

[ChrystalPaths]

So many spiders this year what with the rain we have had here in the NY/Pa area, and now the horrendous heat. All living things are off kilter. I still think this is a bite. Maybe a spider, maybe not but here is a link

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol5num2/s...al/recluse.html

 

[kaykay]

marty im still thinking snake bite too. I did a search but I cant find that old thread where someone else had one. But i do remember it causing abcesses and them bursting because the horse wasnt given anti venom. If they arent given that it keeps spreading and killing tissue

 

[bevann]

Sounds like a Brown recluse spider bite to me.Just had a friend get bit on the arm and he was in bad shape.He was in the hospital for a while&had to have surgery on the arm.4 bad spots of rotten flesh from the bite.ask you vet about that possibility.good luck with your mare.

 

[miniapp]

I am thinking spider bite as well... I don't know to much about the Brown Recluse... (other than the fact that if they bite you it is REALLY bad...

: ) but I had a mare that was bitten by a black widow on her face and she did something very similar to what you are describing.. the really bad thing about that is she had a 3 day old foal on her, so we were dealing with two issues then...

Best of luck with her and keep us updated on her condition..

Suzy Hooper

Show Horses by Suzy

Fresno, CA