Help with colour?

[Kizmet]

I'm trying to work out what colour my little colt is, any help would be greatly appreciated.

He was born a light creamy fawn colour which darkened as he lost his baby coat to be what I was sure was a black buckskin (also called smokey black?). He shows all the characteristics including the cream inside his ears (also going by what the registry in my country says: http://www.dilutesaustralia.net/buckskin-register.html), however, I just got the results back from his DNA test this morning and it's nn.

I'm confused now! Up to this point I was sure he was nCr, I have shown him twice as a black buckskin for a one win and a second and have received comments on what a lovely colour he is. I've had people tell me he is definitely a black buckskin, but I know the test results can't be wrong...

So is he just a brown/bay horse who likes to look like a buckskin? His sire was a similar colour, though lighter and more cream than gold like my colt is (he was never tested and is unfortunately deceased). His grandsire was black turned grey, his granddam was black tobiano and other than that I don't know what his bloodlines carry.

I just feel a little silly for being so sure that he was a dilute and having shown him as one. He's also entered for a big show on Sunday and I've entered him in the buckskin class.

I'm a firm believer of the saying 'a good horse is never a bad colour' but I can't help but be a little disappointed with his results as I'm aiming to breed dilutes using him as my foundation stallion. He's certainly not an ugly colour and it makes no real difference, I know.

I almost feel like I want to send in another sample to test, though the sensible part of me says it'd be the same result and I'd be wasting time and money. Any thoughts?

Also, I have no idea if it makes any difference (probably wishful thinking) but he was born with a strange black marking on his offside front leg. I've never seen one like it and have no clue what it really is, the closest thing I can find that resembles it are 'chimera' markings. It looks just like what this horse has, but on a smaller scale. http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm137/Spamandtoast/hershey.jpg . As my colt has gotten older (he's 3 now) the patch looks like it's greying out. Now, this is probably a very silly notion, but what are the chances that my colt is chimeric? Does anyone think that it's possible to have sent in a sample from a part of him that doesn't carry the cream gene? Or have I lost the plot completely?

This photo is a fairly recent one of my colt, unfortunately only his head and not a very good one to show his true colour. I'll have to upload full body shots when I can. Can't tell his ears are cream inside because they're clipped out. He has his summer coat growing through as he was clipped in winter, It's coming through very golden and pretty, and has a sooty appearance in places. His mane and tail are very dark brown and he has a dorsal stripe. If you look closely you can see it starting to come through in this photo: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=212vpmt&s=5#.UjETpT-0rwo

This is his daddy in his full winter coat. In comparison, my colt is more golden than creamy. The sire also has the cream inside his ears. http://i39.tinypic.com/wjjktx.png

I've got photos of my boy as a baby and his leg, but can't access them.

My profile picture is my colt freshly clipped, so it doesn't help much with colour.

Thanks so much for reading, and any comments are appreciated. I was nervous posting this, but this forum seems to be the only place where people can ask silly questions and not get attacked.

 

[Tremor]

Well. I demand pictures once you're able to access them. You always have some nice little minis.

 

[Kizmet]

Thanks Tremor, will definitely get pictures up as soon as I can.

Another thought just occured. Is it more likely that he is simply dun instead of buckskin? The test I had done was only to detect the presence of the cream gene. This would also make sense with his dorsal stripe, wouldn't it?

 

[chandab]

He sure looks like he could be a dark grullo (black dun).

Here is my yearling grullo (he's at the light end of the spectrum):

The day he was born (shows his color somewhat and his dorsal):



And, this summer (as a yearling):

 

[Kizmet]

Thank you for that Chanda! Your little ones are lovely! What colour are his parents? He does look similar to my colt, just a lighter version. I just grabbed some quick snaps of my boy, would appreciate some opinions.

Also found a baby one, he'd be about 4 months old here and has already darkened a fair bit. Can't seem to locate the newborn photos that I took when he was very light, as I have a different computer now and they're probably on CDs somewhere waiting to be transferred.

(Sorry if some of these are too big)

Is it just my eyes or can others see dun factors?

 

[chandab]

He's incredibly dark, but I swear I see a dorsal in that last picture. And, his face looks a bit darker than the rest of him. I can't really see any other dun factors in these pictures, but sometimes its hard to tell for certain from pictures.

Monte's dam is a silver bay dun (dun suspected before this colt, confirmed after) and his sire is a black bay. I shared pictures of Monte with someone quite good with mini colors, and she is certain that he is a light grullo. I suspected he might have silver, too, as his dam is silver; but she said no, just light grullo.

 

[Kizmet]

Thank you again Chanda

I'm going to send in another sample to get the Dun test done. If it comes back negative, what colour would he be? Brown?

 

[chandab]

If he's negative for dun as well, then likely he would be considered seal brown (or black bay, both pretty much the same, just regional as to what people call the color). [i think he has too much brown highlights to be considered black, but could be wrong, only testing would say for certain.]

 

[ForeverFarma]

Certianly no silver in him, and I am leaning towards seal brown as well-

 

[Kizmet]

Thanks guys! I've paid for the Dun test, just need to post the sample.

 

[sassy1]

Kizmet - check to see if they need another sample. They might be able to use the one they already have. The photos of his chest, head and rear end do look like they have a yellow tinge to them.

 

[Kizmet]

Thanks Sassy, unfortunately I'll need to send another sample as it's going to a different place, there's only one that does the test for Dun.

 

[Kizmet]

Just found a horse that is very similar in colour: http://www.b4ranch.net/images/ref_stallions/spartacoos.htm

 

[chandab]

Looks quite similar. Man that's a dark grullo.

 

[madmax]

Am I the only one that sees stripes on his body?

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I see what appears as striping across his shoulders as well. For what it is worth we had this horse and his son who we considered seal brown until the son threw a red dun roan from a liver chestnut roan mare. We didn't have either father or son colour tested but the offspring left no doubt they were grullo. I can't seem to find a picture of the younger of the 2 but they were very nearly an exact match colour wise.

 

[Kizmet]

Thanks guys!

Reignmaker Miniatures, that colour is pretty much exactly the same as my colt's dam. The test will tell for sure, but I'm leaning towards both him and his dam being a dark grullo now.

Appreciate the input!