Hips and Hyperbikes

[AngC]

I don't know squat about driving.

To keep Baby entertained I got her a pack saddle (with no intention of packing.) She's about wore that one out; took her two months. So I think we've made a good start, as in she's accustomed to having all sorts of strappy things all over her body. I'm rather afraid to try driving, but on the other hand I'm tempted because she's just so darn easy.

So I've been looking at the hyperbike. and have a couple questions:

1.) The position of the driver appears to be rather "spread-eagled?" I have a hip replacement (and lack some side-to-side flexibility on the hips) so I'm wondering if anyone with a fake hip has experience with one of these? Is it comfortable or does it leave you screaming in pain within a few minutes?

2.) How is one these "off-road" (i.e. off-pavement or whatever?) Because I don't know what I'm doing, I would want to experiment out in the pastures. I wouldn't want to take her off property if I even got to that point. And if I did go out, she'd have to traverse a gravel driveway and the only other place she would drive is on a chip-n-seal road.

3.) The hyperbike website doesn't appear to have harnesses. Can someone give me a link or two to sites that sell harnesses and perhaps some information on how to fit a harness to Baby?

Thank you.

 

[vickie gee]

Driving does look like terrific fun! The old saying "got the horse before the cart" came to mind after I bought a harness and have just let it remain unused in the box it shipped to me in...guess I "bought the harness before the cart." I use having no time as my excuse.

Suggest you send forum member Carriage (Bb Bob) a PM to get loads of expertise on carts and carriages and bikes. Advertising one's for sale items on forum threads would or at least could result in receiving demerits for rule breaking. He would be a great "go to" person. Good luck, it looks like such a fun hobby for both horse and owner.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Carriage is the builder of the Hyperbike, so I'm guessing he 'may' recommend it.....

 

[Peggy Porter]

Actually, Bb would probably not recommend the hyperbike for a green-broke horse, especially not as a first vehicle. I love my bike, but it definitely has a niche use. As far as your hips, getting in and out is the hardest part. You have to be able to lift your leg over the shaft while your horse stands perfectly still (which is why you need a solid driving horse) Once seated, I find the bike extremely comfortable for off-roading over the hills, river, and through the woods!

A few good names for harness: www.iowavalleycarriage.com. Www.chimacumtack.com. Www.yonies.com.

I love my betathane harnesses for easy care.

 

[AngC]

ok, thanks. I think. ...or maybe not.

Let me clarify a couple things. ... Baby is not "green-broke" to driving; she's "no-broke" or whatever you would call it. ((But how do you ever get started?))

I certainly did not want to earn demerits and was not soliciting advertising. I guess I should have approached the seller of the cart I had in mind. But what's the point of that? For all I know, he/she/it might tell me all is wonderful. I was seeking outside opinions. Perhaps I haven't researched enough, but I've poked around in this forum and while I don't fully understand the difference between "types" of carts vice "brand-names," I've seen discussions here of carts that look to me like they're "brand-names."

Baby's going to outlive me. She's the most beautiful little horse, but she's not registered. So I figure, the more I teach her to do; the more apt somebody might want her, someday. And she is hugely willing (as long as she's finished her breakfast.)

So maybe I'll back up a little and check out the harness links (...was just thinking one should figure out the cart before I commit to harness.) But I guess a next step would be to get her in some sort of harness, and then go from there.

 

[MiniNHF]

If your not going to show her in big shows I would suggest an easy entry cart, I know there is a lot of them for sale ive seen on facebook miniature horse sale groups especially ones geared towards carts/driving. I boguht one used and its great for my first time in the cart and my boys, if something happens its not going to get seriously damaged like an expensive show cart because its all metal. I bought mine used and it does the job that I need it to and I plan on using it for "trail riding" in the future with some other people and their minis.

Star Lake Tack has some nice harnesses and are extremely friendly and helpful if you have any questions etc I enjoy doing business with them.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Great way for you to enjoy Baby. The easy entry might be best. I've been to a nursing home and given rides before and there were some very crippled folks who were able to get into the cart and enjoy themselves. So, if you get Baby going, no reason you shouldn't have many years of driving pleasure!

I notice that since I turned 60 I have more trouble climbing into my sulky. I'm sure the hyperbike is similar. But once I get in, I feel more secure with the stirrups than in an EZ.

The thing I like best about the EZ is being able to share the fun with a passenger.

 

[Champ]

I have a hyperbike and love it however.....I agree with Peggy P. a hyperbike is not a cart for a mini that is not well trained to drive, they are also hard to get in and out of. My suggestion would be to find a trainer who trains minis for driving, there is so much to learn about the different types of harnesses and carts that you really need to learn from someone. I would also suggest taking driving lessons with a mini that already knows how to drive. Driving is a lot of fun however.....it can be extremely dangerous and a lot can go wrong.

 

[AngC]

ok... good suggestions. No cart for us. (...yet.)

But still, I'd like to try to start getting Baby accustomed to some sort of harness.

Can anyone suggest a book that describes how to start a horse in a harness? ...like, for example, I don't know how it's done, but perhaps I could strap her in and then walk behind her and do some ground-work? There's all sorts of things she would have to get used to; like, for example, the blinders. I had read that a horse should not be asked to tow weight until they're 3 years old. Baby will be 3 years end of May this year. So, perhaps, this is not the year of the cart, but maybe I could start doing some things to get her ready.

I understand that the optimum would be to have a trainer (haven't found one around here, except one and just don't feel they're a good fit for me.) And I understand that in addition to teaching Baby, the human (me) needs to be trained. I will search on some of the suggestions.

Sure wish someone would recommend a book (I'm a book person) that would give me an overview. Thanks.

 

[MiniNHF]

excellent excellent videos - Patty Clokes DVD's. I watched I believe her first four in her series and I learn excellent tips and tricks from them.

http://clokestables.corriswebsitedesign.com/dvds.html

 

[Margo_C-T]

One of the very best books available is 'The Essential Guide to Carriage Driving', by Jaye-Allison Winkel and Robyn Coffey(whose name is misspelled on Amazon's site....) I just checked; it is available fromAmazon, but it is very much recommended and I think, was a fairly limited edition, so don't wait to get one! It is very thorough, well-written, clear and easy to understand, and comprehensive. I own several of the books most often recommended by those who are serious and accomplished-in-every-aspect drivers; this is one I would never be without!(My copy is loaned out, and I need to and WILL get it back...and probably won't loan it again, as it is too valuable to me to risk losing!)It is well and clearly illustrated, too.

 

[Carriage]

Thank you Miss Peggy and others.

I do not sell the 'Bike until the team has earned their wings. In this case with a hip question I would further press for you to go and do a 2 hr trail drive in the rig before I would feel comfortable selling you one. In reality, I don't "sell" you anything because I am not a salesman.

My name and word is of FAR more value to me than "making" a sale that I know I should NOT have made! As I told a customer recently, "You cannot loose with me". It is a sad state of affairs when a potential customer feels that they cannot trust the word and motives of the maker because of rampant deceitfulness.

 

[AngC]

Thank you for the book suggestion. It appears that it's only sold used. Searching on that title on Amazon brought up a slew of other suggested titles; I will sift through them, but I'm still open to any other suggestions regarding books. I'm not so keen on the videos, but if I have to I will. (I like to flop on the couch and read/analyze endlessly; flip pages; re-read, etc.) I've been checking out the links on harnesses and reading some more on-line. Baby's head doesn't look that small to me, but I guess her head is kind of small.

I looked at the 'easy-entry-type' carts. Other than my personal opinion that they're ugly, I'm dubious how they would be on uneven ground. That is why I was looking at the Hyperbike. It looks like I could take my time with the Hyperbike and stay in the pasture. Of course, I didn't think about stepping over a shaft to get into it. In fact, I was more concerned at the angle of the cart-riders' legs, because it looked like it could potentially strain my hip. [i can stand independently on one leg and lift the other to a height of about 24-30 inches.] Looking at the pictures, my concern is spreading the leg angle when seated and add in the "bumping around" that would occur as you go along. I don't know; I guess I'll have to think about it.

Right now, I think I'll just try to find some sort of harness that fits. ...to get her started. ...Screw the cart, for now.

 

[AngC]

... I do not sell the Bike until the team has earned their wings. In this case with a hip question I would further press for you to go and do a 2 hr trail drive in the rig before I would feel comfortable selling you one.

ok, slap me with a stupid-stick. Are you the seller of these carts? I'm dense, but I was noticing that the Hyperbike person posts here on the forums. If you're not the seller, then who on earth would send me a cart of this cost and let me test it out for a couple hours? Really?

I wish somebody made custom carts. ...I'd commission my husband,, but who knows what'd I'd end up with.

 

[paintponylvr]

O...

Hmmm, pls don't strap her into anything. You can harness her. When you are both ready, you hitch or hook to the cart/carriage/wagon. Hmm, will have to check, but I believe you "hook" to farm equipment and "drags".

You can start ground driving before you even get your harness. You want her to be comfortable w/ you behind her asking her to move forward. You don't need a harness for that. You can use two leadlines hooked to each side of her halter to direct her. You don't want her to turn and face you. This one may be best in your situation w/ the halter - since you've mentioned problems w/ hands and fingers (no bit, no blinders to start).

You can introduce her to any terms that apply to driving that you aren't using yet. I figure you are already using "Whoa"? Then train for "Stand", "walk", "walk-on", "trot", "trot-on" and so on. Also some term that means take one step forward - I use "step-up". And you also want a reverse = such as "back" or "back-up". She needs to be comfortable w/you walking on either side of her as well as behind.

Books I recommend - Breaking and training the driving horse - by Doris Ganton - an oldie but goodie w/ concise and clear instructions, drawings and blk/wh photos.

There are a multitude of books here - Ozark Mini Tack - Books - Driving

The other one I recommend is the 2nd one down. It is newer and she uses mini horses to show the pics - both color and blk/wh. Star Lake Tack - Driving Books

There are many/many driving books out there. I've gotten a lot of them over the years - and the most expensive ones are usually the ones I've ben most disappointed with - nice pics but sparse or not understandable explanations that may not be in order that I'm familiar with (and could be disastrous for a newby driver!). Since you/your horses get bored quickly (you've stated that in other posts) - I would highly recommend the book by Cherry Hill called 101 Ground Trainin Exercises

I would start there. Neither one actually gives a time frame to go to next steps - which i found frustrating when I was trying to calculate how long it would take to get a horse started and driving. I've learned there's a reason for that. I know how to ground drive. I didn't know how to harness. I didn't know, when I got my carts, how to hitch. Each horse and driver are different as to learning. Bell and Bit - full sisters - have very different personalities and responses to everything. Bit was pretty difficult to get going - took MUCH LONGER than Bell... There for - you do each step until comfortable and "solid" (I think you will know when??) and then go to the next one that is recommended. You might spend just minutes on one sections and HOURS on another. You can incorporate ground driving while leading and going for "walkies" down the road!

Your horses have had lots of handling and exposure to "stuff" (at least at home) from what you've described. They don't appear to be spooky (most important when driving). That helps a lot.

Harness - there are at least 4 places advertised on this forum that have harness for minis. I've posted links to 2 above. there are many others. I get my harness, now, from an Amish harness shop out of OH. There are other Amish shops closer to you on the west coast OR you can deal with them via phone/mail (most amish don't have websites). You can get very workable and affordable harness.

I don't like using my work harness w/ collars/hames w/ the ez entry carts - the saddles aren't padded correctly for the weight of the cart/shafts & the single trees aren't in right areas for "draft". I do use pleasure driving harness for the EZ entry and show cart.

I don't use a hyperbike and right now not sure I could easily get into one (plus most of our ponies are over the height limits even for the larger size). BUT I do use a sulky cart extensively - I have had repairs done to it and also had a single tree installed. I have driven trails including over branches, downed limbs and big trees (have to dismount the cart, drive horse over, horse HAS TO STOP, lift cart over, remount the cart and drive on!)... I now have the no air tires on it. Not as forgiving for shock absorbtion, but NO FLATS out on those trails. I've driven for up to 4 hours in this cart - my achey hips & back are ok w/ that! Actually nicer sometimes than the other carts/wagons we have. I'm over 250 pounds myself and this cart can support my weight and the ponies - even the 35" one - can pull me in it for hours at a time. One ez entry cart we have is very heavy, the other I had was much lighter. I have other places for EZ entry and other carts I can tell you about, too.

AngC - I have LOADS of pics of us training our ponies to drive... They aren't all perfect, possibly not all safe (we've made our share of mistakes - most I can/would point out). Over the years since 2010, I've posted LOTS OF THEM HERE on this forum. I can post them again.

Bell

Bit

Bell Bit pair

to start... Go to the end of Bell's & Pair album and start from there working your way back to current pics. Bit's - pics of her dead colt at the very end - might not want to go that far. Bit's album does show some of her intro to harness (except the bucking at breeching - couldn't hold pony by myself and take pics at same time). there are a lot more pics than these...

 

[Brody]

You all are going to get me into trouble, I just spent some more money on suggested books! Thanks for the great suggestions and information on the thread. I've been driving for years (trained my gelding almost 20 years ago now!), but have basically been self-taught. Looking forward to what I can learn from some of the suggested books!

 

[AngC]

ok... shoot me. I don't know the proper terminology. Did I say "strap" or "hook" or "drags" or whatever? ...I guess I must have. Sorry.

One of the first books I found was Cherry Hill's 101 Ground Training Exercises. Loved it. I especially like it because it didn't set a time-table of when I needed to do things. Baby and I have worked through much of it. We don't have a round pen, so Baby and I had to make do. Some lessons I did not attempt; for example, I recollect one where I was supposed to use a rope to pick up Baby's foot. I didn't see the point of that (other than we could both make a big old entangled mess) also we had already been picking up her feet since a couple weeks old. That said, I will go back through that book, because perhaps I missed something.

Sometimes people give you suggestions that cause a light bulb to flash over your head. paintponylvr's suggestion to use 2 lines and walk behind Baby!!! Why didn't I think of that?!? I can't run/trot too well. But I think Baby will be quite amenable to barging forward with two leadlines (she's been having this naughty teen-ager behavior where she always wants to "go in front" and I've been disciplining her to stay with me when we walk on halter.) Baby knows the rudimentary commands like Whoa, Walk, Back, etc. I taught her most of them off-halter and have been back-fitting her to do them 'on halter.'

I 've been looking at the harness links; I'm so clueless that I really think I should find a book. I don't want to plague sellers with my dumb questions. So I'm going to back up...way back. And research some more.

Also, I totally forgot about bits. I don't even know what type of bit to get (my faded memories of horses include curb, snaffle and no-bit hackamore.) ...I wonder if you can drive without a bit (Baby is not going to like a bit; plus her mouth/nose is so small; I'm wondering whether I'll have problems fitting a bit to her.) (...wonder whether one get a harness remove the bit; is it intergral?) ...see what I mean? I am woefully deficient and will read more.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

 

[AngC]

This site is getting rather frustrating. I was trying to beat the 10 minute limit on editing and it kicked me out and then locked up. So the latter part of my prior post has some errors; hopefully it makes sense.

 

[paintponylvr]

ok... shoot me. I don't know the proper terminology. Did I say "strap" or "hook" or "drags" or whatever? ...I guess I must have. Sorry.

You did - Post #9. Personally, I didn't address it right away as normally if someone used that terminology, I would run, not walk, the other way. Too many other things that could go wrong with someone who still believes that is the way things are done. I was surprised you used it, since you've "been reading this forum and researching"... No reason to shoot you though.

One of the first books I found was Cherry Hill's 101 Ground Training Exercises. Loved it. I especially like it because it didn't set a time-table of when I needed to do things. Baby and I have worked through much of it. We don't have a round pen, so Baby and I had to make do. Some lessons I did not attempt; for example, I recollect one where I was supposed to use a rope to pick up Baby's foot. I didn't see the point of that (other than we could both make a big old entangled mess) also we had already been picking up her feet since a couple weeks old. That said, I will go back through that book, because perhaps I missed something.

For me and possibly for most - the rope on the hind leg is to get a horse used to the sensation of having something wrapped around their legs. You want them to learn to stand. I have many that have never been handled as you've handled yours - a piece of broken harness or a wire on the ground that wrapped around their leg(s) would create a killer rodeo possibly ending in someone's death, serious injury or destruction of property. Even a simple EZ entry gets costly to have repaired! So to "rope a leg" is a part of training that most folk shouldn't skip. It has a purpose in any training program.

I had a nervous mare that we did a lot of work with. We should have continued daily or more extensively with "leg rope" work. We had to cross a fence line (electric) that the owner of the property simply dropped to the ground. All the other horses - both driven and ridden - crossed it w/o a problem. MINE - danced, stopping/starting and jumping around (she'd been driven pretty extensively at this point and this wasn't expected). ONe of those wired then wrapped around her hoof for a moment and she came unglued. I was VERY THANKFUL she was hooked as a pair and that the other pony was solid and used to "stupid" from "newbie partners". The wreck that could have happened was prevented by the solid pony. I got tired of dealing w/ that mare's personality and sold her and her daughter, that was very similar in personality, to someone who wasn't looking for a driving horse. Win/Win.

Sometimes people give you suggestions that cause a light bulb to flash over your head. paintponylvr's suggestion to use 2 lines and walk behind Baby!!! Why didn't I think of that?!? I can't run/trot too well. But I think Baby will be quite amenable to barging forward with two leadlines (she's been having this naughty teen-ager behavior where she always wants to "go in front" and I've been disciplining her to stay with me when we walk on halter.) Baby knows the rudimentary commands like Whoa, Walk, Back, etc. I taught her most of them off-halter and have been back-fitting her to do them 'on halter.'

I 've been looking at the harness links; I'm so clueless that I really think I should find a book. I don't want to plague sellers with my dumb questions. So I'm going to back up...way back. And research some more.

Books are a good thing. We've made suggestions and then you make this statement. Hope you realize how frustrating this is to the rest of us. I do understand that you are trying to learn and that you are having to learn on your own.

There are many posts on this forum. In 2012/2013 (winter) there were lots of posts regarding training AND VIDEOS from some of our members. One member described how she translated walking to ground driving a young gelding that she wanted to get going - using only a halter and lead line.

There are and have been many posts regarding different types of harness AND how to use them/what to use them for AND what each section of the harness was used for (steering, pulling/pushing, stopping/brakes). ALL harness have these parts in order to work effectively and safely. Sometimes some parts can be left off (show carts - can see more of the horse <<i don't understand that, but that's me>>) or if not using a wheeled vehicle. This lightens the "load" on the horse (work/farm harness is HEAVY even for minis) and makes less equipment to clean/replace as it wears out (dripping sweat causes the "brakes" of a work harness to rot - both leather and bio. Sweat drips onto the "brakes" part of the harness when working. Some work style harness (not made for minis - but could be custom made) doesn't have the "brakes" part of the system under the horse to prevent this from happening so much - usually seen in YOUR area of the country).

Also, I totally forgot about bits. I don't even know what type of bit to get (my faded memories of horses include curb, snaffle and no-bit hackamore.) ...I wonder if you can drive without a bit (Baby is not going to like a bit; plus her mouth/nose is so small; I'm wondering whether I'll have problems fitting a bit to her.) (...wonder whether one get a harness remove the bit; is it intergral?) ...see what I mean? I am woefully deficient and will read more.

Most harness horses are started in a basic snaffle. Most minis will wear a 3 or 3.5" mouthpiece bit - some will go to a 4". You can measure - using a bitting tool or using a piece of string. Those of us that have lots of horses OR are bit collectors (

:whistling ) have gathered a variety over the years (understand that I've been around horses since I was 5 yrs old and am getting ready to hit that "golden anniversary"...I've been able to try a large variety of bits over those years on all kinds of horses and still haven't used/seen them all!! There are still some bits I don't have and some I refuse to purchase and some I simply can't afford. And why bother - if an inexpensive, basic bit works? Some basic snaffles offered by some companies are very thick in the mouthpiece diameter. Some minis/ponies do ok with that, some don't. A thinner one might be considered to be cruel/sharp - but I've found most of ours work better with them. Any bit can be dangerous in the wrong hands... I have seen just as much damage done with bitless bridles and hackomores as I have with bits. Recently there have been a lot of folk saying they use a solid mullen mouthpiece and it works great for their horse/them.

I've made two bits for mine - out of braided hay string - after a mouth/tooth exam showed nothing wrong in the mouth. Both bits stopped the constant head tossing but not the "chewing" (of course - they are "hay flavored",

). There are "starter" and check bits made out of LEATHER - made in mini & pony sizes, as well as full horse size, if you truly don't want a metal bit in your horses' mouth. Bitless bridles work for some but are not fully accepted at most events. EXPERIMENTS, EXPERIMENTS!!

Anyway, thanks for the help.

U R Welcome!!

Back to books!!

Because you have such a thirst for knowledge AND like being able to go back and reference things, I HIGHLY recommend a book that is meant for "TEAMSTERS" (draft horse drivers). The author has done a GREAT JOB of historical coverage as well as current info. The newest editions have had current info added - as to harness type, make and equipment that wasn't available long ago being made again now. There are many drawings and pictures. It also comes with a companion book that covers training/knowledge not just for the horse BUT for the driver. I still haven't read it cover to cover - it stays in my truck and when I stop at a fast food or restaurant by myself I take it in. I try to read new parts and then go on to re-read older sections. It's HUGE.

Also it seems that there used to be a few folks that used Shetlands and minis for farm work - some of the OLD blk/wh photos of them are very awe-inspiring and neat!

Covers lines, different line configurations for doing different things, harness (including pleasure harness) types and how they looked/worked. Driving single, pair and much larger multiples. Talks about the horseman's understanding of his "partners" feelings as well as needs when being worked...

Work Horse Handbook

and it's partner book - Training Work Horses/Training Teamsters

These two, for me, are in-valuable and cover a lot of info in depth.

 

[paintponylvr]

the only pic that shows the braided haystring bit well...

There are actually 3 different bits on these 4 ponies. The bay/white mare is wearing the braided haystring bit. The youngster beside her to HER left is wearing a narrow mouthpiece, stainless steel 1/2 cheek driving snaffle. The two light colored mares on the outside are in their 20s and they are wearing copper, narrow mouthpiece 1/2 cheek driving snaffles. The "1/2 cheek" is supposed to prevent the bit from pulling thru the mouth if horse refuses to give/bend or if driver is too heavy handed (OK - both of those need to be addressed elsewhere...but). In my OPINION it works as a pressure point to give more direction for your turn... I like them.

To see more pics of me and them learning to drive as a 4 abreast and also 3 abreast (1 different pony) go to this album. Some of the pics aren't "pretty" learning to handle this many ponies is not the easiest - I am learning to develop more finesse to avoid all the mouth pulling and head tossing (also - as stated in previous post - the "nervous Nellie" bay/wh mare has been sold on).

3 and 4 Abreast driving

I ALSO took all 4 mares with me up to OH to the maker of the lines - and found out they'd sent me the lines put together wrong. Even though I had them run correctly - they were wrong - pulling ponies wrong directions. There is a lot going on in these pics and I'm glad my girlfriend was able to take them. I have not yet done 4 abreast to equipment - MIGHT get to that this summer!