homozygous black /frame etc learning

[TPs flat rock acres]

I am in the process of looking for a new colt/stallion to add to my herd all of my mares are solid color but one. I would love to produce paints so I should be looking for a black and white framed stallion that is homozygous? I have seen a few black and whites I just love and hope to find one like them guessing price wise they are more money?

 

[bluerogue]

It is impossible to get a homozygous frame. That particular genetic combination is lethal. That is why testing for LWO is so important. The foals are non-viable, as they do not develop correctly or completely.

However, if you mean homozygous for tobiano, yes, those can be found, but they do tend to be higher priced than horses with only one tobiano gene.

There are also a multitude of other "overo" genes, some of which can be tested for, and some of which do not yet have a test available. I personally love sabino overos, and there are something like 5 or 6 different sabino genes. At this time, only one type can be tested for (unless a new test has become available recently, and I missed it).

 

[Joanne]

You can find homozygous for black, and heterozygous for frame.

The great news this year is that you can now test for the splashed white gene, though like the sabino gene there are several genes involved and teh tests does not catch all of them ...yet.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

Well I am not sure what it is called that I want lol. (sorry still learning ) I have seen a few stallions that simply take my breath away They are for sure jet black with good amount of white so guessing tobiano what is the difference between framed and splash can you post photos of different ones. I for sure want one that will produce color when bred to solid mares as mine are all solid but one. I like the rich look of black and I think I do like the white face (bald?) not sure if thats what its called so confusing on all of the patterns and colors.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Tobiano horses have no white on their faces, if there is white it comes from something other tan tobi (at least so I have been told) Sounds like you like overos and toveros, if you google frame, splash white and sabino you should get some useful info on the differences. IMO tho, think hard about whether you wish to have a stallion that is homozygous for anything... when you have a stallion he is 1/2 your herd and no matter what color your mares are he can only (in the case of homozygous black) throw black based foals. I personally prefer a variety of colors in my pasture, some solid, some red based, some black based. Just a thought, have fun looking and choosing your new boy, there is nothing like horse shopping

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

my dogs are mainly black and white and have bred toward that color so that is why I think i am drawn to the black and white color in the horses maybe down the road get a boy that will throw red and white now with a stallion that is homozygous if they are bred to a solid mare will always produce color?

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

also a stallion that is homozygous black overo if bred to a sorrel what will the foal possible be

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

If your stallion is homozygous black he will always throw black based foals so a red mare would have a black foal provided there were no other factors in play. If she carries a hidden modifier gene such as the agouti(bay) gene then she can have a bay foal, the same is true of the silver gene. Since both agouti and silver act on black pigment only, you can't see either in a red horse. As said earlier you can't have a horse that is homozygous for frame but if it is homozygous for tobiano all the foals will be pintos. Most overo genes (frame, sabino and splash) can be expressed to a lesser or greater degree in any given foal and some horses carrying frame are solid or nearly solid visually and others that are nearly all white (maximum expression). Imo that is the reason they are so favored, the harder it is to get a color or pattern the more some people like it. (big fan of frames here btw) Black based colours include, black, bay(black with agouti), buckskin(bay with cream), silver dapple (black with silver), silver bay (bay with silver), smokey black (black with cream), perlino ( bay with and 2 cream), and grulla/grullo(black with dun). If I missed any hopefully someone else will fill them in.

Hope that helps some.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

If your stallion is homozygous black he will always throw black based foals so a red mare would have a black foal provided there were no other factors in play. If she carries a hidden modifier gene such as the agouti(bay) gene then she can have a bay foal, the same is true of the silver gene. Since both agouti and silver act on black pigment only, you can't see either in a red horse. As said earlier you can't have a horse that is homozygous for frame but if it is homozygous for tobiano all the foals will be pintos. Most overo genes (frame, sabino and splash) can be expressed to a lesser or greater degree in any given foal and some horses carrying frame are solid or nearly solid visually and others that are nearly all white (maximum expression). Imo that is the reason they are so favored, the harder it is to get a color or pattern the more some people like it. (big fan of frames here btw) Black based colours include, black, bay(black with agouti), buckskin(bay with cream), silver dapple (black with silver), silver bay (bay with silver), smokey black (black with cream), perlino ( bay with and 2 cream), and grulla/grullo(black with dun). If I missed any hopefully someone else will fill them in.

Hope that helps some.

ok so then what I am looking for would be a black and white homozygous tabiano? I have seen someone's stallion that was jet black along head and back 1/2 od him like someone drew Aline acrossed him colored him 1/2 black and 1/2 white is this his coloring ? can't remember if he had a totally black head I think so.

 

[Lizzie]

I 'think' what you seek, is a tobiano and not a frame overo.

If so, then find a tobiano stallion (tested of course) who is homozygous for tobiano but heterozygous for colour. This would give you a coloured (spotted) horse always, but could be black and white or red and white or something else and white.

Don't worry about always looking for a completely black head on a tobiano. The white blazes etc., can come from other genes.

Lizzie

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I can't say without a picture (and maybe not then lol) but the horse you describe sounds splash white to me. Maybe splash/tobiano. It is possible to find a horse who is both homozygous for black and tobiano if that is what you want but you would expect to pay a higher price for one with both that coloring and good conformation.

Are you hoping to produce 'wild' patterns? If thats the case you might want to look into mixing as many pinto patterns as you can in the foals. Tobi, frame,splash and sabino. If you are really lucky you'll have one that exhibits traits from all of them.

 

[mini horse mania]

Here is an example of tobiano,(foal)and black frame with splash you can google horse color calculator to find the foal color possibilities..but you have to be specific for it to be accurate.

 

[REO]

Black in front and white in back, like Pooka? His face is white and he has blue eyes. He is Splash.

My boy Topper is tested Frame, he's Splash, Sabino, Tobiano, he has pretty much every pattern LOL!

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

thanks Diane the info you provide is exactly what I was looking for now to know if I want just blacks or all pinto colors

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

ok question one of my mares I thought was sorrel she does have two whit socks and a blaze would this make her a sabino?

 

[Joanne]

You need to post a photo of her please.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

ok will try to get one tomorrow

also regarding color with palomino there mane has to be lighter then body color correct I have a filly born out of a pal mare and black stallion