Horse won't stand in Line-Up

[Performancemini]

We have a gelding who drives quite nicely in the class; but when it comes to the line-up he gets stubborn and disrespectful. We generally make it through the back-up; but then he doesn't want to stand until he is asked to leave. He will start forward and not stop and;/or fights turning to circle, etc. He just seems to turn into a jughead and this is scary to me and definitely unsafe for all. Sometimes he is fine until they start announcing the ribbons and then he starts it;- other times he starts it earlier. At home he stands pretty well during "practice", though he is definitely a horse who likes to be 'on the move'. His personality is friendly, social; but he definitely has his own ideas and can be stubborn. (Not always just with driving-though he is not that bad overall-the line-up problem is his biggest flaw).

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Do you use a header? If so, has this helped, or is he disrespectful of the header? Is there one header he respects more than another?

 

[Performancemini]

I don't use a header, but I think it would be a good idea this year. He respects my husband. I had a Shetland friend head him at the county fair when he acted up; he respected him pretty much too. I suppose he needs work on just standing standing standing. I think he just wants out of the ring once he's done "working"- if that's possible in a horse's thinking. (Actually I THINK I am ready to get out of the ring once I have done the class also-so perhaps this is translating to him).

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

If he is fidgety at home ask him to work longer/harder before you stop. That is , make him tired enough that he is breathing a little hard and really wants a break. Then ask him to stand. Every time he gets restless make him work a bit harder than he had hoped too. At a show, I think you are on the right track about him wanting to be out of the ring and done, instead of putting him away right after a class, take him to the warm up ring and drive him a bit longer. When he gets a nice stand there, then you can call it a day. Now in spite of this advice I have to admit that I have worked with a horse that just needed to learn how to relax and with him I just did a lot of standing around, first while line driving and then hitched. We would do 2 or 3 laps of the ring and then whoa, if he was fidgety I just calmly asked him to stand again until he finally relaxed and just stood. I did use a header for him when I first hitched him (first 3 or 4 whoas only) and it really seemed to help him. It helps to know your horse and be able to read him some. Is he fidgety because he is stressed, wants to be done with he job, thinks he is the one making the decisions... You will know best what his mindset is and he will need different responses depending on the 'why'.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

The young horse I was working with had a terrible time standing still; his personality sounds a lot like your boy's. We worked and worked on a calm whoa. I had him for 6 months and he was improving slightly. He has gone onto a more experienced trainer now, and I hear he is getting better. He is 5 years old this year. He was very spoiled and had no clue about respect. Between learning respect, and more mental maturity, he is getting better.

It was difficult to get him to work WITH me; he only thought about what HE wanted. Not a mean bone in his body, Mr Friendly, but mostly concerned with himself.

He did respond to a header whom he respected. Just anybody standing in his face wouldn't do.

 

[Performancemini]

Reignmaker: your advice is good and I probably did know it in the back of my mind. I will work on that. Marsha: You pretty much have him button-holed. He is not a spooky horse, quite curious actually; but as you say-he is friendly but more concerned with himself and what HE wants to do. He is 9 this year and has been driving since 3, but not real consistantly. Pretty much winters off, 3-4 shows in summer and some trail driving with sparatic home driving ( due to work schedules). Hopefully we will get this problem ironed out-as I don't look forward to working and showing him much this year again because of the problem. (or maybe I just need a little kid's push button bombproof horse instead-aghhhh!).

 

[Marsha Cassada]

The horse I was working with was only ground driving. Standing patiently is one of the major things slowing his harness training. It was interesting to watch him with a header; that is why I was wondering if you had one in the show lineup. It's nice to have 2 people to work with a horse, but sometimes one has to work alone.

I am wondering--does your horse have eyes that look forward, or are they more on the side of his head? I have read that horses that can look more forward may react differently in training than those whose vision is more to the side.

 

[madmax]

I would work with him at home with a header, and repetitive standing quietly while hitched. You can create a 'header' situation by facing him into fence so he cannot go forward in whoa command. He may just need more hours of practice, putting miles on a harness horse is important. Do you warm him up enough before his class to take the edge off and he is in a calm state of mind?

I have had several horses I drove in competition, and only one of them I could just hitch and go, the others needed a good warmup. Hope you can work it out and he will stand for you!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Good point madmax,facing a solid obstacle is a good way to encourage a horse to not move forward. The one thing I would add to this is not to stop nearer the fence than you are confidant you can easily turn or you may find yourself in an awkward position. If the horse tries to turn when he is too near his shafts may scrape (or worse catch) on the fence and that could lead to an ugly moment. If you must work alone facing something is a reasonable replacement for the header but do it with awareness that there can be risks.

 

[Performancemini]

I am liking all the help. I think I will opt for human help. Our fence is electrobraid, and whether it was on or off, I don't think I would want to risk it-even though he generally respects that fence that can "bite" him. As for the eye issue-is has a very dishy arab head with the more prominent eyes. Our one other gelding has a lesser dish but has a "flatter" eye, and he is the one who tends to be more sensitive to movement and stimuli.

 

[Performancemini]

Oops! Wanted to add, about the working before a class- I do and I don't (much) depending on his attitude. He can actually be quite on the lazy side at times and I've found he does better if I don't warm up much-I think that's when I have more problems with him. When he has been "go-y" I do try to work him more-but he can be a real "engergizer bunny" and just goes and goes without tiring when he's in that frame of mind. He's actually kind of fun to drive when he's like that-handles more in frame and light and seems more "precise" in everything. I can't recall how his line-up is when he's like that. I am not sure if how he's working has a lot of bearing on the line-up problem or not. We had more problem with it last year than the year before though I remember.

 

[Jetiki]

I know in the ring you have a check on him, since its required, do you use it at home also? If checked all the time at home and he's having issues standing still at home, when asked to stand, undo the check and see if it makes a difference, I know a couple of horses that get antsy when the check is done up and they are standing still, a looser check helped them relax a bit. Its just a thought, something that wouldn't hurt to try to see if it made a difference.

 

[Performancemini]

His check is real loose all the time. It flops around. We changed him to western country pleasure for last year at a respected judge's suggestion and let the check out a whole lot. It was pretty loose before. We have never checked very close to snug-like. I know the trainer who started our other gelding for us trained HIM with no check at all (so we make sure his check is compfortably loose too). We might just try adding that suggestion at home though with unhooking the check for standing. Thanks.

 

[Jetiki]

I mentioned it because I know some (not all) like a tight check to keep it from flopping. And with my mare I tried messing with it, and she got so upset when asked to stand with a tight check she reared. I normally use no check at all on mine unless I am in the breed ring.

Good Luck with him. Maybe go back to long lines for a few sessions, and ask for 30 seconds, then move, not stopping in the same place, to keep him guessing, make another lap, stop again, gradually increasing the time before you move. then move back to hitched and continue that lesson. I use whoa for stop, and Stand meaning stay there until I tell you to move. I start this in hand also. The point of not doing it in the same spot, helps with the anticipation. He knows he's done when he gets to the line up, this rewires that thought. He's trying to make the decisions, and not let you make them. stop and back up walk 20 ft then stop and stand, keep him wondering what is coming next, so he rewires the thought of backing up equals "I'm done" to him also. These little guys are too smart for their own good sometimes