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Raine Ranch Minis

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We all know some time or another we will have to punish our horses. Even though we don't want to some times they push us over the edge. How do you deal with it?

 

Today my Stalloin was testing me. I went out tonight and was going to jump him. Well he refused to jump, so I gave that up. Then I was just going to take a nice walk around and WHAM he blows up. He goes crazy,pawing in the air, bitting, just being MEAN. He is never MEAN. I know he is a stud, but he just does not act like that. So I had a enough! I put him in the round pen and worked his tail off.

 

What would you have done different?
 
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Not a bad one, and hopefully he'll connect the action with the punishment........THAT is what's important.

Very often the punishment depends on the action. I like the "five second rule" in whatever "punishment" you are doing. My horses are equal to 2 year old humans and if you don't react within five seconds, they have no idea why you are mad at them.

I do NOT believe in hitting their face, but I will smack their hip or shoulder for nipping, trying to nip, kicking out, and shoving me aside. If the horse is on a lead, I also use the infamous order of BACK!!!......... (Horses do not like backing.)

Another method to add to the scenario is to stomp your foot and yell, "QUIT!!!" (Sometimes I'll add, "How DARE you!" when I'm really mad........ For that one I tend to get a message from them of: "Oh crap....I'm REALLY in trouble."
 
I would need more information:

How old is the stallion?

Has he been used for breeding?

How long have you had him?

Was there a mare in the vicinity?

Have you handled stallions before?

The answers to these depends on how severe the punishment is.

First I would put a stud chain on him. That gets their attention.

Then when a horse starts acting stupid, and doesn't respect my space or the stud chain, I get B I G. I will throw my arms up hollering and stomping and jerking the chain to make him back up. And back up fast - You need to make sure he understands who's boss mare. In my herd, that's me. If I don't get enough respect from that, I will bring in a driving whip to smack them. Not a beating, just an attention getter. Remember, when horses are in a herd sitatution their WOMD (weapons of mini destruction) are teeth and hooves. Those hurt a lot more than a light crop.

If this is your first experience with a stallion, and if you want him to remain a stallion (not geld) then I would suggest getting some help from someone in your area who is used to dealing with stallions. You gave him permission to act out when he decided not to jump and you let him get away with it. Even if it was just stepping over a pole on the ground, you can't let the horse win. They are very smart, and some will take advantage every chance they get.

This type behavior cannot be tolerated. If there isn't a reason to keep him a stallion (Outstanding conformation, top bloodlines, show record, etc) then gelding would be the first step.

Good luck with him.
 
I would need more information:

How old is the stallion?

Has he been used for breeding?

How long have you had him?

Was there a mare in the vicinity?

Have you handled stallions before?

The answers to these depends on how severe the punishment is.

First I would put a stud chain on him. That gets their attention.

Then when a horse starts acting stupid, and doesn't respect my space or the stud chain, I get B I G. I will throw my arms up hollering and stomping and jerking the chain to make him back up. And back up fast - You need to make sure he understands who's boss mare. In my herd, that's me. If I don't get enough respect from that, I will bring in a driving whip to smack them. Not a beating, just an attention getter. Remember, when horses are in a herd sitatution their WOMD (weapons of mini destruction) are teeth and hooves. Those hurt a lot more than a light crop.

If this is your first experience with a stallion, and if you want him to remain a stallion (not geld) then I would suggest getting some help from someone in your area who is used to dealing with stallions. You gave him permission to act out when he decided not to jump and you let him get away with it. Even if it was just stepping over a pole on the ground, you can't let the horse win. They are very smart, and some will take advantage every chance they get.

This type behavior cannot be tolerated. If there isn't a reason to keep him a stallion (Outstanding conformation, top bloodlines, show record, etc) then gelding would be the first step.

Good luck with him.
OHHHH I am Gelding Him next week! I hope I will have to get paid Friday first. LOL
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How old is the stallion?

He will be 5 in June.

Has he been used for breeding?

Yes I hand bred him last year.

How long have you had him?

Since '09

Was there a mare in the vicinity?

Yes my 2 soon to be 3 year old Filly in the barn.

Have you handled stallions before?

Just him.

He shuts down if I use a stud chain. He wont move he just stands there and pouts.
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I have to drag him around with it.
 
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First of all, we don't "punish"....we discipline.

The discipline we use depends on the horse and the severity of the "crime". Some horses only need a harsh word and "get it", for others I might use a slap of my hand, and for really aggressive or "cocky" behavior, I might use a piece of the harness, i.e. the trace. Since I drive, I don't like to use the driving whip as I don't want them to see that piece of equipment as a unit of punishment. It is an aid.
 
Negatively, if at all. Of course positive punishment "works," but for every behavior that is suppressed with positive punishment, several more different ones often crop up in its place. And if you've waited more than 5 seconds, it's pointless anyway. The horse will have forgotten and moved on.

But hey, I'm just the eccentric one, don't listen to me.
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I don't like to "punish" my horses as to me that implies "You've been bad so I'm going to make you suffer somehow so I can feel better." I will firmly correct their behavior and rigorously discipline them, but not arbitrarily punish!
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That said, your discipline has to be very firm indeed with a stallion. They toe the line or you come down on them like thunder until they backpedal and show some respect. Then there is a moment of detente as both settle and eye each other, then I go right back to what I was trying to do without any fuss. Ruffian is absolutely right that horses will discipline each other with what we would consider extreme force but they are fast and clean about it. They dive in, bite or kick or make the other horse retreat and then it's over unless the horse reoffends. They don't hold grudges and neither should we. MiniV has it right with the five second rule.

Leia
 
I don't believe punish what you intended to me. Discipline and respect is in order (goes for horses, dogs, kids IMHO). Stallion's need to respect you and when they're on the lead they have to act like a 32 yr old gelding IMHO. No acting up or studdy behavior. As we have the gambit of personalities here, some only take a cross look other do require a good yank on the lead, loud no, etc.

As Maryann said it has to be responsive to the situation, you can't think something 10 minutes later is going to connect in his brain as it won't.
 
My stallion got out into the hay the other night. I don't think it matters much to him, but, I griped at him the whole time I am putting him back in the pen. I fix the wire and go back to bed (yes it was 2am). Not 30 minutes later he is out again. This time I put a halter on him as I am putting him away and ragging at him. This time I am pounding a new post and put a rail in for good measure. What can you do? You let them know they were bad and go on. As for your horse refusing. After you worked him hard, did you take him out and walk with him? Maybe connect a bit with him after the work? There is most likely something bothering him. I would not have just put him away after working him. I would have tried to walk him again. Maybe check his feet and legs. There could be a problem.
 
He doesn't respect you. Instead of "punishing" I would try and get that horse's respect. I would start off in the round pen and try and get 2 eyes. Remeber 2 eyes are better then 2 heels. And I would just use basic groundwork. I would just avoid the jumping. I would also try a rope halter, it has more bite then a nylon halter but I think its better then a stud chain.
 
My stallion got out into the hay the other night. I don't think it matters much to him, but, I griped at him the whole time I am putting him back in the pen. I fix the wire and go back to bed (yes it was 2am). Not 30 minutes later he is out again. This time I put a halter on him as I am putting him away and ragging at him. This time I am pounding a new post and put a rail in for good measure. What can you do? You let them know they were bad and go on. As for your horse refusing. After you worked him hard, did you take him out and walk with him? Maybe connect a bit with him after the work? There is most likely something bothering him. I would not have just put him away after working him. I would have tried to walk him again. Maybe check his feet and legs. There could be a problem.

Yes I did walk with him for about 10-15 mins. I also scratched him in his Fav spot too.
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He really liked that!
 
DON'T PUNISH,DISCIPLINE.. WITH MY BOYS LARGE AND SMALL STUDCHAIN AND REVERSE GEAR(BACKING UP) DOES WONDERS, USUALLY I WILL BACK UP UNTIL THEY GET AN ATTITUDE CHANGE OR BUMP INTO SOMETHING WHERE THEY ARE STUCK BETWEEN ME AND A HARD PLACE. AT THAT POINT I GET AN ATTITUDE CHANGE, AND BETTER MANNERS. THEY REMEMBER THEIR MANNERS FOR A WHILE AND ACT ACCORDINLY. BESIDES ITS MORE FUN TO WATCH THE EXPRESSIONS ON THEIR FACES WHEN THEY REALIZE THEY ARE STUCK BETWEEN ME AND A HARD PLACE. GREAT FOR A CHUCKLE SOMETIMES WHEN NEEDED.
 
I do not punish. There is absolutely NO point.

I will discipline.

There is no way your horse would connect his acting in what you have allowed him to believe was an acceptable manner, with your "punishment"

You have to react, within a two to five second window, and I do do this.

I will shout, possibly, or I will get physical, as Ruffian, getting big, squealing and stamping my foot. I do not make eye contact, not unless it is a really bad thing, and your boy's explosion was not, it was merely an outburst.

He was in- how often and for how long is he let out?

If you intend to work him do it after turnout, not before.

I do not use stud chains, if I did I would not use it to punish as it is far too easy to go into overkill. How people who use a stud chain can say they do not condone using physical punishment is beyond me, as that is exactly what a stud chain, potentially, is.

Use a chain to get control, by all means, but the aim should always be to do away with the chain.

I have rarely ever used a chain in the ring I have never had the need to, my entires are well trained and well behaved.

If I actually needed a chain (as more than a very temporary measure) to control a horse I would geld him!
 
Today my Stalloin was testing me. I went out tonight and was going to jump him. Well he refused to jump, so I gave that up.
This was your first and biggest mistake. He refused to jump and you gave up so he got his way. No no no!! I dont care if it took an hour I would have made him jump at least once.

Basicially you TRAINED him that he doesnt have to jump or do what you want.

If you are inconsistent like this he will never be well behaved or respectful.

Its like children, they have to know boundaries and you have to follow through.

I always tell people who complain they cant catch their horse that they probably TRAINED IT not to be caught. If you go and try to catch a horse, you better follow through until you DO catch that horse or you are training it not to be caught.

The learn bad behavior just as fast as good behavior
 
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Yeah, what Kay said. If - when - my stallion refused to jump, I lowered the rail, even if it had to go to the ground, and made him walk or jump over it and then praised him like it was a BIG deal. Positive reinforcement works so much better than negative. Believe me it's easier to say than to do. Often I've had to count to ten or twenty before we could proceed. Sort of like when your children misbehave and you'd like to knock them senseless but figure you'll get hauled up on child abuse.

So when something goes wrong, take a deep breath, calm yourself - tell yourself you're the adult in this situation and turn it around - inside out or whatever it takes until it becomes positive. (by the way my stallion did refuse when we started learning and now he seldom refuses)
 
I have trained large horses for over 35 years. Move their feet, forwards, backwards, left, and right. Make the right thing easy, the wrong thing difficult. Trying "punishment" in people terms doesn't work, they are the fastest reacting domestic animal. Believe me make his feet move, he seems to believe that you have a leadership weakness there by not making him move those feet near the jump you let him refuse. This method the horse understands, it gets their respect for your leadership, and they get to practice whatever lessons you have taught them so far. It also burns up that excess energy. Your not trying to wear him out, just get his respect. I back all my horses, stallions, big, mini all, everywhere. I don't have any problems.
 
Haven't read all the posts but you are going to find that when a horse gets away with not doing something, they will be twice as bad the next time. I have always used the rule that when asked, if they refuse, we will get it right. Going off and doing something else doesnt seem to click as well as not allowing them to continue to refuse that particular thing.

For instance, if I am trying to load a horse in a trailer that doesnt want to load- I dont think that horse is going to see any connection by going and working in the round pen. That's not the trailer that it refused to go in, and guess what? It still didnt have to go in the trailer. Yes, it had to work in the round pen, but that has no connection with why he didnt get in the trailer. I work with the horse until it is loaded- and there are various ways to do that without beating on it or getting it all freaked out, then we are done for the day.

If I had asked the horse to jump and it refused, we would have worked at it until it jumped. The horse is going to learn all kinds of various ways to get out of stuff by going and doing something else.

I had a full sized horse one time that refused to sidepass over two steps to open a gate (we were working cattle and the gates were setup so the rider didnt have to get off). This was something the horse knew inside and out. He refused. I asked him again. He refused. Everyone else left and went to lunch- we stayed and over and over asked this horse to move over and open the gate. He was in the air, he backed up- he spun away... did everything but move over. He finally gave up. We were not leaving til it was done. He never did that again either. (He was a stallion also by the way, and they will test)
 

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