I am having a hugh

[Marty]

I spoke to someone yesterday that said they are turning Pasos loose down in south Florida.

After they are done abusing them in their stupid inhuman antics, they just set them out.

In Kentucky, a bunch of thoroughbreds and quarter horses were brought to an auction and just left there abandoned. Last week, on the way home in the dark, Dan nearly crashed his truck into a herd of mules that were set loose up here. These things are happening everywhere. The over population not just in horses, but in dogs and cats etc. too.

This is not my fault. This is not your fault. This is the fault of the people who are running mini mills in every state, breeding non-stop anything to anything as long as the two back ends fit together. You know the type, the ones that don't know what they are doing and don't care either and they'll sell to anyone for the asking for a couple hundred bucks or less. This is the fault of those pumping out 100 + animals on their farms a year and not giving a rats A $$ where they end up, if they even survive. Does anyone need to produce that many foals a year? This is the fault of the unscrupulous unconsciencious low down no count imbeciles that have been doing this for years and you all probably know someone that fits in this catagory somewhere. This is also the government who falls short in enforcing laws. The people that are causing this over population in every state across our country have to be stopped somehow, but I just don't know how it will ever happen. I wish I had the answer.

I'm not taking the fall for this over population mess with producing one foal a year or maybe two. I also realize my limits and I know there is only one of me to go around and give care so I don't want to become over-horsed where I cannot give that one on one attention to each daily. I do my part to ensure that whatever is put on this earth by my hand is protected. If you don't have a reference you cannot buy a horse from me its that simple. If my horse won't work out for what you have in mind I won't sell. I also took my baby girls off the market to retain them as well. I have plenty of buyers call for certain kinds of horses and when I don't have what they need, I gladly refer them on to many of you good responsible breeders. I usually know what many of you breed for and as several of you found out, I enjoy helping you make that sale. This is the way to go, helping each other out which ultimately helps the horses find great homes.

 

[Keri]

I gelded mine last year and just had one baby this year. We were looking to rebreed our mare, but decided against it for her health reasons. I like having the baby around, but I prefer to show. So at this time, we aren't breeding. Just showing and having fun. Then, if some exceptional stallion comes along, we'll breed.

Its hard to tell you what to do. If you can find them homes or hold onto the babies, then breed one or two mares. But if you can't with the economy, just hold off. Hopefully it'll pick up.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

Just got off the phone with a guy that wants to buy my 2 good pinto mares. They are 33" , sometimes I get them at 32" depending on hair and chubbiness.

He liked their pictures, didn't care about pedigree or registrations. He has never domne any breeding before, and wants a foal for his kids to play with.. Was willing to pay my price. Has an unruly unregistered mini stallion about 3 years old that is 40" "or so" that he would use.

I took the oppurtunity to tell him some of my sometimes "strong" opinions. I told him some of the difficulties of breeding, horror stories of foalings gone wrong, over population of minis, horses, etc., prices of feed and hay, need to be there at foalings, need for breeder alerts and alarm system etc. I did as much teaching trying to avoid preaching as I could. I talked to him about not breeding such a big stallion to smaller mares.

I think he was sorry he called me.

Nope, I won't sell to him. I suggested that he get his kids a nice little colt and geld it, so his kids could enjoy it. That maybe he would enjoy his pony more if he was gelded. I told him he didn't need to breed a mare just to get a foal, there are plenty babies out there.

I am not sorry I lost ( or really turned down a sale) but I know that he will find some poor little mare somewhere else and breed to that pony. Just makes me sad.

Robin

 

[running in the red]

we are making the hard decision of gelding all of the boys as soon as fall gets here. even my beautiful streaker son and the call me sir son........we breed 2 girls- I don't think they took but, we are not trying them again. the market has hit bottom here.........will keep my herd small so that I can feed what I have and not add more............joy

 

[nootka]

I am having a similar dilemma.

I do not have the money nor the time to promote my well-bred and cared-for horses. However, I cannot get a decent price for them because there are so many who are looking for the very low-priced, etc. and there ARE some nice horses out there for nothing, but IMO, the majority of what is for sale at low prices is not of a consideration for breeding or show, etc.

This is having an effect on my decisions, though. I was only going to breed one this year, but had a rare opportunity and bred two. I am planning on breeding NONE in 2009 for 2010, unless something drastically changes my mind.

I have two nice yearlings for sale (had none this year), and will put my time into training and continuing to educate those two with an eye towards finding them the best possible buyer/home.

Liz M.

 

[maryann]

We had a fellow stop by the house on Sunday. He wants to buy 6 mares and a stallion and breed

a bunch of these" little horses. " They have just moved down from up north and have some land

now here in the area. We asked him what type of grass they would be pastured on and he did not

know . He never asked about registrations or heights or blood lines. He did not even know how long

they carried.

We tried to educate him as much as we could but we could tell it was

falling on deaf ears. Of course we sold him nothing and sent him on his way. However I am sure there

are breeders out there that would have jumped all over him to sell him something and probably will.

These eager sellers and uneducated buyers are really hurting the market, as well as some

breeders breeding every horse with a uterus. We made the decision last year not to breed anymore.

We only had from 2-4 at the most every year. Sometimes only one. This year we had no foals and honestly I never missed it. Those of you that are breeding quality horses and have done years of research with blood lines I applaude you and wish you the best. Please keep sending out those beautiful foals. Cause from now on when I need a horse I am counting on you to supply me a nice one.

And when I need a foal fix and need my fingers licked on I am sure I can find one somewhere to pet. This was our personal decision as the market is overwhelmed and I am proud that we made this decision. This breed has been

wonderful to us, and this is our small way to help the breed. Mary F

 

[shelia]

I am fairly new to minis. (about 3 years) We have had one foal. I am showing him for the first time tomorrow. I think the prices have stayed pretty steady in my area except for colts. I have made a decision that if I sell a colt, it will be to either a show home or it will be gelded. I have been lucky enough to pick up some excellent quality colts for very low prices. I still am breeding one to an outside stallion. I feel what I have is what is needed to improve the quality of minis in the future. i feel that there is not enough of this quality of minis in my area. This is why I will breed maybe 3 a year. If I did not feel this way I wouldn't breed them. I will not sell a colt to be a herd sire if he is not going to be shown. (even though I have bought them without saying I would show them.) I may change my mind under the right circumstances, but this is my plan to help keep the quality up on minis and the population in check.

Don't get me wrong, There are some great world class breeders in my area, but I feel there is still room for me. I feel I will have something to offer to the breed.

I know what you mean about how hard it is emotionally to sell them. If I find that it is just too hard to give them up then I won't breed anymore.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

The biggest problem I see with the Mini market is not the people that frequent the Forum as I think we all approach things in our own way, but we all are seeking to do the best for the horses in our care possible, otherwise we wouldn't be here!

Unfortunately there are a large number that $$ is the dominating factor. Don't get me wrong I'm not out to be a charity, but these are living breathing things and as their steward I feel morally bound to do my best for them. I turn down alot of sales for the reasons mentioned here. I also won't sell to the 'ParisHilton - L.A. crowd' that thinks a Mini s a toy to be exploited and thrown away - I would rather give them away to someone that will give them proper care then let them be used by those types.

As for your personal dilemma - only you can make that decision to breed or not.

I will say you're braver than me to even attend auctions. I can't drive down the road without critiquing the condition of every horse I see! I'm not talking conformation, I mean healthy, access to food/water, glossy coat, etc. as I think even the wonkiest horse deserves to be treated humanely.

A concern I do have - one of those Catch 22's of life - if all the people with decent stock stop breeding will this affect the overall market or will it just remove the better quality horses from breeding? Or will the crap breeders just breed more and more crap be bred so the whole breed degrades?

GAWD its late!!! I think I need some sleep.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[dannigirl]

I have to admit that we have way too many mares and in the past we have bred everything we had. In the past couple of years, we have taken a hard look at things and have chosen a few select mares and bred with one select stallion. We have nice mini/shetland combinations that we like to take to shows and often do well with so we try to breed now to have a couple of really nice foals a year so we can show them. While showing, we are looking for good show homes, but will keep them in our barn--fed and sassy--until someone wants one and we know it will be cared for. We also geld, geld, geld. Whenever someone looks at my mares, they ask if she can drive. Usually the answer is no because we have lots of geldings and train them to drive first. We have found that there is still a small market for a nice driving gelding if you are--again--willing to wait for the right buyer and feed and work with them till then.

As for your question, Michelle, about whether our not breeding will make any difference with the backyard breeders--well, I think we all know the answer to that question. There are still people that call me and want to know what it takes to get into this "business". I usually try to explain a few things to them, but I know most of it falls on deaf ears. I can remember when llamas were supposed to bring big money (I never saw it) and now it is alpacas (I don't think that is happening either)

And then you have the scammers--just sent one of them a nasty email yesterday. Good thing we all love our babies.

 

[Maxi'sMinis]

I just had 2 minis gelded. They were the 1st and second mini's I ever had. Never bred them, they were pets. I also have a stallion and several mares. I have decided not to breed anyone this year and maybe next. I only want to breed what I will be keeping to show. I have thought long and hard and would love to have a baby from my stallion and one of my mares that is an awesome line breeding on L&D Scout. They are both very good quality. But with how much hay is and the cost of up keep, I just can't bring another horse into the world right now. I have bought a colt to show and have a filly from a mare I bought last year in foal to show. I decided to concentrate on showing these 2 babies instead of making more. I have a hard time letting any go too and can't keep all of them.

 

[littlearab]

I have to say here the real reason for the very low horse market is the fact that there are no longer kill buyers. The state of the union has little to do with it people will almost alway find monety for thier hobbies..

But when there is no market for the worse horses to go....so people can not sell them. If they can not sell thier mean,crippled, and poorly bred horses they can not buy well bred nice horse of any breed. Thye keep the hobbie just do not make any changes.

At the local horses sale in May here they sold reg 1 and 2 year old AQHA horses for $10... yes $10 it did not even pay for the sellers gas to haul them there.

I was tolds once the biggest market for mini was people getting out of big horse but they still wanted horses around minis are the perfect fit for this.

But if poeple can not sell the big horses they just keep them for pets. And do not have the money of place to keep minis.

The people who were so fast to say stop the horse kill market should take along hard look at what they did..

I have heard many people say they know of people who are just letting ther unwanted horse go.. or like one man told my husbund he was just going to shot three 2 year old colts in a week if they are not off his place.

And before any one gets all up in arms.. what would you do ??? You have looked for homes for 2 months.. give any adds all over, no takers.. they are unhandled... for the most part wild.. You take them to the sale no bidders.. you can't give them away. You only have so much pasture.. Sell you good horses so you cna keep them?? Ido not think so. He bought them last fall to save them. Now he hase to dp the deed..

Lets all give PETA a big hand for saving the horses...... I feel like slapping them...

I hate to see good breeders quit.. the only way for a breed to move forward is the next years foal crop..

 

[Reijel's Mom]

Yep, it sure is too bad that the kill market isn't around anymore to clean up all of our messes and make it so we don't have to be all that responsible with our decisions.

Sorry.

In all seriousness, the lack of a horse kill market in the US probably has had a negative effect on the industry. SO has overbreeding, and SO has the state of our economy.

I'm glad to hear that responsible people are taking a look at their breeding programs.

Bottom line is if it's a business you need to make sure there is a market for your product before you make it.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

It has been about a year since we sold out our entire herd in a retirement move. But, how I miss those little ones at foaling time. That was my favorite part of the whole thing. But on the other hand, I'm sort of glad I no longer need to worry about where they'll go or how they will be cared for. In this economy, even people with the absolute best of intentions can find themselves in dire straights.

A friend told me that someone she knew had gone to a horse auction that's held a few times a year. They brought the trailer along, just in case they couldn't resist. They bought nothing, but when they returned to their rig to go home, someone had put 3 horses in there!!! That's so awful! But stuff happens when feed, hay, vet care, land cost, taxes, food, fuel & EVERYTHING has gone up, all at once.

Retirement made a very difficult decision of whether or not to breed easier for me. There was no choice. But, gees, if I was still in the business of breeding, I'd really be looking closely at the big picture. It would be very difficult.

I think it might go back to something I believed the whole time I was breeding: If you can't keep it when it's born, don't breed for it. Also, breed what you like best, because you might be keeping it.

 

[mininik]

I'll bet if you add up the number of people like you, Marty, who breed one or two okay quality horses whenever and compare it to the number of breeders who produce hundreds of foals per year it'd be about the same and about the same number of horses from both programs end up sharing some ill fate. Everyone who breeds is part of this problem. Obviously there is a market for good quality horses, be it for show or companion purposes, but I think we all know that most don't own a horse for life. At some point the owner loses their job, has to relocate, or has major health problems, the kids lose interest, the show horse stops being competitive, those breeding horses don't fit the program, or the horse gets injured and it's those horses who wind up playing the lottery of life again. Slaughter was only one option and plenty of horses still end up there. There's also rotting in some place surrounded by junk and barbed wire, being handled poorly or being turned loose. For many of the horses finding themselves in those situations it really doesn't matter how royally bred they were, how excellent of a race or show prospect they were or even how much they won or what they produced. Horses generally live a long time, and I very much doubt many people who have bred or will breed for even one foal actually know what has happened or will happen to that horse during it's lifetime. I believe actually knowing would be a very inconvenient truth for many and may make breeding seem like less of a wonderful thing. Great economy and marketable stock or no, that's something to think about.

 

[susanne]

It's so easy to say that "__________ (fill in the blank) is the problem." Interesting how that sentence rarely becomes "I am part of the problem."

I will first repeat what I've said over the past year since we purchased our filly: that I would probably never breed her, but if I did it would be for a foal I would keep."

Truth is, that makes me part of the problem.

It means that instead of providing a home for a horse out there that needs a home, including those "show horse prospects" and "driving prospects," I am adding an additional horse to the overall population.

No matter what each of us sees as the root of the problem, the only part we can control is that which we, ourselves, do. Nobody is going to solve the entireproblem on their own, even if they quit breeding all together, even the largest farms.

But EVERYBODY could say, I will breed __% fewer horses. Or for individuals, instead of feeding your ego or "letting the kids experience the miracle of birth" (gag me....) by breeding your own mare, buy one that someone else has bred.

No matter how much each of us may feel that are the exception and our horses are special, we can each make a difference. I'm sorry, but NOBODY has a program so special or so important to them that they can't at least cut back.

Before you breed, look at that special mare or that special stallion and envision them starving, left neglected or tied to a tractor. No matter how royal the bloodlines, it CAN happen to the horse that you add to the universe.

I say this because my baby, Mingus, was rescued from starvation and neglect. He is the center of our universe, but someone else thought he was garbage. He may have been Supreme Grand Champion Gelding, AMHR, at the 2008 Oregon State Fair, but someone felt perfectly fine about not getting off of their fat butt to even feed him.

THIS CAN HAPPEN TO ANY OF YOUR FOALS. So, before you breed, ask yourself if you can live with that possibility.

At the very least, we should NOT breed unless we are prepared to offer that foal a home for life...whether we breed to keep or offer to take it back if the buyer must let it go. Or how about only breeding if someone has expressed a definite interest and backs it up with a deposit?

Reijel's Mom is right, that we can no longer rely on the kill market to clean up our mistakes. Instead, they remain here to remind you every day that you created them.

Okay...off my soapbox...

 

[user 488]

It's so easy to say that "__________ (fill in the blank) is the problem." Interesting how that sentence rarely becomes "I am part of the problem."

Enough said.

 

[Charley]

It's so easy to say that "__________ (fill in the blank) is the problem." Interesting how that sentence rarely becomes "I am part of the problem."

kinda sorta...but if you purchase a foal already born, you are encouraging the breeder to continue breeding. OH! So seems you will still be part of the problem....

 

[susanne]

True...as I said, no one person can solve the problem alone. However, if that breeder has also committed to breeding __% fewer horses, then everyone is doing both parties are doing something.

Or you could buy only from those you know to be responsible breeders -- encourage and reward them for their efforts.

Or you can throw up your hands and say, I can't change the world, so I why should I even try?

 

[Rocky1]

Littlearab- I hate to break it to you, but there are still killbuyers in the States. Lots of em! There is no more slaughter houses in the states, but the killbuyers ship the horses to Mexico or Canada for slaughter. Those $10 horses are probably on someone's plate in France. I think you need to visit one of my favorite sites www.fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com . I think she is very informative. I don't take her word as gospel, but 95% of what she says is true. She's just very to the point and in your face with the reality of the horse industry.

 

[littlearab]

Rocky1,

Belive me I know that the lack of a slaughter market is not the only issue with poor horses prices.

I'm 50 years old .... I've been there done that. But is it is the number one issue..

I do know for a fact that the real abuse problem with horses slaughter the real suffering that goes on is in the transport of the horses. So making horse slaughter for human use in the US unlawful only made the horses suffer more... the horses have to travel longer to get to the plant so suffer more.

I live in ND only 70 miles for the Canada border ... with horses selling for $10. There is NO real slaughter market.

There are still kill buyers but now they are getting the horse's for $10 or free not paying $400. The plants in Canada are full of Canadaian horses.. they do not need ours. And with the cost of shipping, the buyers have to pay they can't pay much and when horses are being given away why would they pay more?

I belive that there are alot of people who need to grow up.

I have seen that site and many more. And agrre with some of it.

But I think most animal rights sites are full of %^$#@! They flim one kill in 1000 that goes bad.. and they have to wait weeks to get that one on film. If someone really whats to make a grown up look at the slaughter issue look on BOTH sides..

I have seen a slaughter plant, frist hand.. I'm a rancher. I know where my meat comes from... do you ? HORSE or BOVINE meat is meat.. Cows have feelings too. You can make just as big of pet out a cow as a horse. My 15 year old dauther is out side rigth now giving 1100 # COW A BATH... her name is Nibs.She is halter broke loves her ...moos when she see her coming... licks her face like a dog..

I love my horses. I love my cows.. I love my dog.... I love my cat. But in 99% of the world HORSEs are livestock NOT pets.

The slaughter market is NOT THERE to CLEAN UP my mess or anyone else's... it's there to FEED PEOPLE... I have another way of looking at it.

If you can not face the fact that 50% of all horses end up there, then you should not breed.. Telling someone that they must be take care of every horse they bred until death, is childish.

I know my mind set is not every ones. I know most people on this fourm do not agree with me. So be it... to each his own.... I just wanted to state the other side... and to say I hate to see good breeder stop breeding because of what others think... or becasue they think they are the problem... they are not .

I guess if you are breding horses for the right raesons you keep doing it.. maybe it apersonal choice..

It's my choice to bred maybe your not too.

Lets ,thank GOD we live in the USA!!

Where it is our choice!!