I have another "Grievance"

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There was a contract in place on my filly stating she is A & R registered. That I would get the papers after she was paid in full. Well we all know that didnt stick. I hired a lawyer but really how much am I expected to keep paying to get these papers? We had one more shot at trying to get them or we were going to haul her in court, she has no money, she spent my $2500 pretty quick and "forgot" to use some of it to get the filly registered. So she ends up in jail, which would make me very happy but still whose going to reimburse me for lost time and $? Really how far am I expected to go? Costs do start to add up and I knew I was not going to get reimbursed from her sorry self.
 
Contracts are good but they only work if you are willing to spend the extra money to take someone to court and most people realize that so breaking a contract means nothning to them!!!
 
you at least have recourse and can use the small claims system to get justice. It won't cost as much and its better to have it in writing than not to. No matter what, it then says what is due to you instead of your word againt theirs.
 
I think here on LB, it's easy to think we know some people that we really do not KNOW. Some of the people who've done wrong by other members has really surprised (and saddened) me.
That is very true. Often times those people will come on this board and talk about how they treat their horses, the time they spend with them daily, how much time they spend with the foals and how the horse is child safe blah blah blah.

I see it written and cringe. I have seen them and their horses and know them to be unhandled, wild, ill mannered animals both in and out of the show ring. A lot of times we feel we *know* someone from their posts and that is simply not the truth.
 
I think here on LB, it's easy to think we know some people that we really do not KNOW. Some of the people who've done wrong by other members has really surprised (and saddened) me.
That is very true. Often times those people will come on this board and talk about how they treat their horses, the time they spend with them daily, how much time they spend with the foals and how the horse is child safe blah blah blah.

I see it written and cringe. I have seen them and their horses and know them to be unhandled, wild, ill mannered animals both in and out of the show ring. A lot of times we feel we *know* someone from their posts and that is simply not the truth.
Bingo...
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As much as I agree with " BUYER BEWARE" I also feel like as "breeders" it is our responsibility to answer the questions that people forget to ask.

I have been burned - TWICE - So, I have learned a hard lesson and sometimes I feel like the seller thinks I ask too many questions. But, I try to learn from my mistakes.

Now - I will tell you - I was a " Newbie" and I bought two horses from Mona ( here on the forum) - I forgot to ask a lot of questions. She had picture after picture ( that I did not ask for) - she also told me things about the horses, sire, dam, etc. ( that I forgot to ask). One of the best purchases I have ever made if not the best!

So, truly I think it is a two way street - " BUYER BEWARE" AND " BREEDERS BE HONEST" expecially when you are working with somone that you can tell is new.
 
It would be nice if AMHA could do something about dishonest breeders but I could see the liability factor. I too have been burned by breeders whom I trusted and sold me horses that were not the quality I expected.
 
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Something that hasnt been said also is the buyers who purchase horses and do not ever transfer the horses into their name OR they buy a foal on application and NEVER register it. :arg!
 
It would be nice if there was something in place with both AMHA and AMHR that if a 'grievance' is filed at least a warning letter could be sent to the individual stating that a grievance has been filed. Not that it will stop the truly unscrupulous ones, but it may slow down the ones that do have some respect for the law. Keep it on file for those individuals. Most of the people that burn others don't do it once, they do it because they can get away with it and they know it!

As for the Buyer Beware that is a smart thing to do - educate yourself, blah blah blah. But if you are new to the breed and you have got the basics down, etc., navigating the registry paperwork - heck how many people when they got their first mini knew there were two registries? Or why there are two? Let alone how to correctly transfer a horse, and that stallion reports need to be filed, and DNA/PQ testing, and show records (make sure to call the registry to check), also ask for references, etc. Oh and get a contract - mind you you probably won't know the basics that need to be covered - but you can bet an untrustworthy seller will and you won't have any protection - but you'll have a contract!

Oh the seller didn't tell you that horse is on application and its dam was never DNA'd or that stallion was bred to 10 mares the previous owner sold the mares and now angry people are after you as you own the stallion and of course he's not DNA/PQ tested, or that show horse that won all those shows - oh surprise he didn't really he attended those shows, what do you mean you didn't know about B size minis - oh it's an AMHA registered horse, cryptorchid you don't know what that is? It goes on the horror stories that newbies to this industry go through that I've heard over the year.

I for one was not that well informed when I got into minis it was a whole new world! Most breeders where not on the internet, it was word of mouth (you ever listen to breeders bash each other to make a sale - ugh) and trying to navigate two registries paperwork (most of us that have been in this industry a decade or more can't always follow recent registry rule changes!), let alone getting pedigree info thrown out, show info, etc. It can be a bit overwhelming. There is alot of information that having been in this industry for awhile that I take for granted but almost every buyer when I hand them their 'new horse folder' with all the paperwork, with stickies telling what to do with each part - they get that glazed like a donut expression of absolutely no idea what I'm referring too! I tell them just call I'll walk you through it!

I do think it's fantastic those individuals that are ahead of the game and are fortunate enough to get a trustworthy individual to mentor them, as they are truly truly lucky, but the majority of people I've met haven't had it that easy. I was one of those that thought I had a good one only to find out I just hadn't received my bucket of @#$ from this person!
 
I too believe this to be true. A buyer can't always tell by what a person may say for a lot of times it is B.S! I know I learned a hard lesson of believing a person to be one with entegrity and finding out from a sale that it was/is an act of that person to be so nice but is totally irresponsible.

I feel really bad that I sold a mare and foal to a person with the foal just being on application. I do believe a buyer should have all papers necessary to see that the horses are registered but I had a catastrophe happen in my life and hadn't gotten the foal registered but did want the buyer to have all the paperwork to get it done rather than wait on me to get it done and then something happening to me. Now, I have bought from nice people too, but oh what headaches a buyer can get from some sellers. Unless you have experienced it you will never know how frustrated it can get dealing with a person who is irresponsible and sometimes just plain untruthful. Mary

I think here on LB, it's easy to think we know some people that we really do not KNOW. Some of the people who've done wrong by other members has really surprised (and saddened) me.
That is very true. Often times those people will come on this board and talk about how they treat their horses, the time they spend with them daily, how much time they spend with the foals and how the horse is child safe blah blah blah.

I see it written and cringe. I have seen them and their horses and know them to be unhandled, wild, ill mannered animals both in and out of the show ring. A lot of times we feel we *know* someone from their posts and that is simply not the truth.
 
I guess my point is educate yourself as much as you can before you take on the (in my eyes tremendous) responsibility of owning a miniature horse yourself. It's hard for someone to take advantage of you if you are well informed.

Then there are cases like Denise. Unfortunately, I could see myself doing just as she did in terms of dealing with the seller. She was someone I'd have trusted as well.

As to the behavoir of foals, for me, honestly, that's not an issue but I'd not represent mine to be something it wasn't in behavoir or anything else (because for what it's worth, I care deeply that my buyers are happy with my horses, because I care so much about my horses). If I purchase a horse who's not halter broken or a foal who's not tame, for my situation, it honestly isn't a problem. I enjoy working through those issues which rarely take much time or effort in the whole scheme of things. Now, if I had little kids and thought I bought something kid safe and it was a wild thing, that's a different story. But, for my own situation, basic training issues aren't much of an obstacle on horses I purchase.
 
If I purchase a horse who's not halter broken or a foal who's not tame, for my situation, it honestly isn't a problem. I enjoy working through those issues which rarely take much time or effort in the whole scheme of things. Now, if I had little kids and thought I bought something kid safe and it was a wild thing, that's a different story. But, for my own situation, basic training issues aren't much of an obstacle on horses I purchase.
While I agree with this for myself as well I am talking about a different situation. A newbie who is looking for a horse to fit in with a family with young children should not have to deal with a horse who is simply not safe to handle for anyone but the most experienced.
 
I do think it's fantastic those individuals that are ahead of the game and are fortunate enough to get a trustworthy individual to mentor them, as they are truly truly lucky, but the majority of people I've met haven't had it that easy.
How very, very true! Before I started in Miniatures, I read and read and read. I still didn't know a fraction of what I needed to know. I was so fortunate to get a wonderful mentor in Clara Woodson. She was always available to help me understand what to do in terms of paperwork or general care of a horse regardless of whether I had bought it from her or from someone else. Since her husband Walt passed away, Clara has sold out her Minis, but I will always love and appreciate Clara for all she has done for me.

Thanks Clara. I know you still lurk on here once in a while.
 
I haven't read this whole thread but I have a thought. What about a list of breeders that you would recommend. There could be some sort of ranking done with stars. Instead of a five-star restaurant, we'd have 5-star breeders.
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I haven't read this whole thread but I have a thought. What about a list of breeders that you would recommend. There could be some sort of ranking done with stars. Instead of a five-star restaurant, we'd have 5-star breeders.
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Good idea Deb!!!!
 
What about a list of breeders that you would recommend. There could be some sort of ranking done with stars.
Because someone most likely will want one of those breeders on the black list. As said on here before about some breeders being praised - others had another story to tell about their deal gone bad with that same breeder. It all depends upon who you ask sometimes.
 
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Another thing, we can all take a look at our websites' link pages and not hold out anyone / breeder / supplier on our links page that we ourselves would not readily do business with. I know we see plenty of link exchange threads and requests, but from my perspective, if someone's on my link page and I would hesitate to do business with them, then that's not right for me to give the impression of "endorsing" the person, breeder, tack supplier, etc.
 
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Jill you are so right about the links page!

I'll be re-doing mine this morning.
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Over the years, I've always felt/known that Mary Lou and LB look out for the members
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And as for the copy cat web sites, now you know... they're nothing but cheap imitations
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I will be purchasing several minis next year for my program and want to branch out to other bloodlines/farms than the main ones I have purchased from in the past so anyone feel free to pm me with a "buyers beware" list of breeders to stay away from. Frequently I wish there was a list as well but then I realize that there are two sides to most stories. I was emailing someone the other day about a mini I was interested in and it came up about where one of my horses came from and they said oh I would never buy from them. I was shocked as from my experience it was about as positive as you could get. Why on earth not I asked? Because they don't back their minis. Haven't you heard it most people know about it so they go into the story. Turns out I knew all about the situation and the person going around bad mouthing the breeder fails to mention that they bought the horse at a auction where there is no liability from the seller and it was one of those things that just happens. So I explained what really happen and then added that I could only speak from my experience but bought a very expensive stallion that ended up with only one testicle and the seller replaced it immediately with a even better calibur just to ensure I was a happy customer and the outcome is more than I would ever hope for as the seller does back their minis on multiple occassions that I have witnessed. Needless to say they have since learn the "bad mouther" more or less as sour grapes on a situation that could happen to anybody. Anyway I could see how someones name could get on this list just for revenge and if you don't know all the details it could be hurtful to a reputable breeder as well so it truly is best to just do your homework and see in person.
 

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