Is something about to happen?

[Danielle_E.]

Interesting. It certainly has crossed my mind but I was waiting to see at what point in this discussion it would be mentioned if we truly are trying to keep this from "as usual" being an argument about religion. Actually, the NO's were louder in my opinion, all 3 times. That man did not know whether to poop or go deaf. lol. In fact, the NO's were so loud I would not be surprised if pearl divers off the coast of Japan heard the dissention.

The above opinion is not a problem for me. I am what you would consider a Liberal ( I am in Canada) always have been and always will be, but you are right. To me the no vote was as loud as the yes vote which shows that people are polarized on the issue. I watched the news last night, after losing power here for 4 hours. Wicked windy weather here yesterday. I wish our Prime Minister would take a strong stand with Putin and the Chinese Goverment as well regarding Syria. I think when things do happen that it won't be just Iran we will have to worry about.

Do I believe that going in with a pre-emptive strike is the right thing to do? Not at this point and not if they don't have absolute and 100% hardcore proof. What the world doesn't need is everyone rushing into a war that nobody will win and that mankind will lose. This is not going to be anything like we have ever seen. JMO.

 

[ozymandias]

Religion was brought up because this will be a religious war. Im sorry people think its taboo to talk about it even if its the truth

Israel is occupying Islamic holy lands and irans leaders want them gone. It's not being fought over economic reasons or anything else. It's the "why" behind what's going on in the middle east.

Iran isn't cooperating with the rest of the world because this issue goes deeper than please play nicely....when you think like JennyB (sorry to pick on you Jen

) and the here and now is nothing but a doorstep to somewhere better then reasoning isn't going to work.

If this does get bigger then the western world will side with Israel. Russia and china will side with the middle east.

Better make sure you kiss your kids and grand kids a lot because the firepower behind Russia and China is going to blow your minds.

Thanks for starting this thread Danielle.

 

[Danielle_E.]

I see it as a war to regain territory not about religion. If it was about religion Iran would have killed the Jews living in Iran already. There is a fair number living in Iran and they don't agree with Israel. Please research.

Hopefully fear and hate won't push either side in doing something that will affect the entire world. The link I posted above explains alot as to the emotions fueling the problems. I have so much respect for this Dr. I am not sure that if I would have been in his shoes that I could be so forgiving. Jenny, I think it is these kinds of individuals who are ready as you say. In his religion his "savior" is not Jesus Christ BUT he does believe in God. I have met people from many different faiths who pay lip service and think just because they believe that is what saves them. You have to walk the walk also, not just the talk. Talk is cheap and doesn't amount to much. Hypocrites are all over the place. If you have hate in your heart for anyone, I am not talking anger but hate, and don't treat others as you wish to be treated, well it's all for naught.

Here is some interesting facts

Jews are protected in the Iranian constitution and seat is reserved for a Jew in the Majlis.[13] Iran hosts the largest Jewish population of any Muslim-majority country.[20] After Israel, it is home to the second-largest Jewish population in the Middle East.[12]

 

[Danielle_E.]

http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/Home.aspx

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=284189

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=283603

 

[Danielle_E.]

Found this to be interesting and may explain China and Russia's stand on all of this.

"Why are Russia and China not being more cooperative on the issue?

If Iran’s anti-Semitic rants seem counterintuitive, so do Russia and China’s less than cooperative attitudes. Neither country has an interest in seeing Iran go nuclear, especially Russia, which shares the Caspian Sea with Iran. If this is the case, then why the obstructionist behavior? Indeed, Russia’s deputy foreign minister, Sergei Ryabkov, was quoted Thursday warning against an attack as being disastrous for the region and having far-reaching consequences beyond.

Russia and China’s contrarian position on Iran is similar to why they continue to bolster Syria’s Bashar Assad: fear of American dominance in the region.

The Chinese and the Russians – especially the Russians – fear that the collapse of Iran, Syria and Hezbollah would lead to complete American domination of the Mideast and its oil flow. America, in this view, already has close allies in the Persian Gulf, in Turkey, in Israel. The collapse of Iran and Syria could possibly send those states as well into the US camp, leaving Moscow and Beijing without any foothold in the strategically critical region.

Moscow is not enamored of Tehran, but this is the Middle East and, in this region’s the-enemy-of my-enemy-is-my-friend logic, Iran and Syria keep the US at bay."

 

[vickie gee]

It is like Kenny Chesney's song "Everybody Want to Go to Heaven, But Nobody Want to Go NOW". That is human nature, unless you are suffering from illness and pain to the point that you want to die and are willing to stop fighting for the next breath.

I was with a life-long friend this week whose mother had just passed away. Somehow in the discussion while I was sitting around the table with the family the topic came up about people prepping for an impending disaster. We were joking about all these seeds my husband has bought so that we can grow food and survive. They know my husband has never spent 5 minutes doing anything in the garden other than pestering me. My friend said "Forget that, if we get hit by the Big One I am going to go be with my mom and your mom." I know in my heart that she was just down over the loss of her mom and that if we ever have a nuclear attack, a land attack, biological warfare, martial law, or a revolution here she will be just like the majority of us and go into survival mode.

Denial is the oldest form of self-preservation. I don't think we should deny that we could be on the edge of a world war. The destruction of our country here within is a bigger worry to me right now. I will keep it brief because I don't want a lot of rabbit trails to take away from Danielle's intended topic. I am talking about farmers going out of business, lazy kids being raised to think life is about "give me, give me" and being the bums of future generations, the food police telling us what we can and can't eat, the tsa mister nasties groping people's genitals, and a whole plethera of false flags planted right in America with the intent to take away our personal liberties. It is the denial of all this that will eventually implode us and we will end up being whatever the United Nations tells us we are.

Now, back to nuclear attacks. I am not going to lie awake at night worrying about them. On the other hand, if and when I get to retire we will not only be looking to re-locate to a place that offers what we want as far as climate, privacy, offering the ability to persue our hobbies, etc BUT WE WILL ALSO BE LOOKING FOR AN AREA THAT IS NOT A PRIMARY OR SECONDARY NUCLEAR WAR TARGET. You might be surprised if you look at the map and see what areas each state has.

 

[Danielle_E.]

Vickie, thanks for your post. All of us from democratic countries go around saying and boasting that we live in countries that are the most free. I say to that bullpuckeys. Yes we have many many more freedoms than some countries, but we have many restrictions, regulations, etc. I am talking about daily life things. For example, there was a farmer selling unpasturized milk directly to families who wanted it. This farmer was taken to court by our goverment because of regulations. He initially won his case but subsequently lost to an appeal by our Ontario goverment. He has now been granted a further appeal and I hope he wins. What is it to you or I if people want this. I could understand if he was selling this in a store and we weren't told it was not pasteurized. Go to an airport these days and take a flight, see how nice that experience is, from body scans to whatever else they may put you through. And you pay for this treatment, disgusting. Our daily freedoms are being eroded and yet our politicians and governments keep brainwashing us. Freedom my backside. Okay, enough of my rant, off to clean my kitchen.

As far as my opinion both countries are equally to blame. Iran with their crazy President and the fanatics and Israel for the mess of Gaza strip. The unfortunate part in all of this is this will affect everyone else if either side does something stupid and goes to war. Either way it is a no win situation and we will all lose in the end.

 

[Danielle_E.]

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=284500

 

[Margo_C-T]

Very interesting thread. Thank you, Danielle, for starting it, and the same to the thoughtful comments of most all others! Immense food for thought here...

I don't watch CNN or Fox, though I would be considered a conservative(probably not an 'ultra', however...). I am generally more likely to keep up w/ the local news, though I try to see at least the early evening edition of one of the 'big three' American major networks...but take their presentations with a large 'grain of salt'. Daily newspaper isn't feasible for me.

Margo

 

[Danielle_E.]

I didnt realize the below. So Iran will have a new President. I wonder if this escalation for Nuclear is because he knows he can't run for a third term.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/iran-blog/2012/sep/07/ahmadinejad-iran-presidential-election

 

[ozymandias]

I didnt realize the below. So Iran will have a new President. I wonder if this escalation for Nuclear is because he knows he can't run for a third term.

http://www.guardian....ential-election

He's going to make sure whoever takes over is well groomed. Am I expecting fair and honest elections - no way! My heart goes out to the "normal" everyday Iranian people living under this government. Human rights are nonexistent.

 

[Danielle_E.]

This is an excellent article in our paper today and gives us food for thought for the reasoning that we closed their embassy.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/09/10/f-vp-stewart-iran-canada.html

 

[Danielle_E.]

This coming out of Iran

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9533842/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-accuses-the-West-of-destroying-Irans-rain-clouds.html

 

[ozymandias]

the United States is going to be forced into this no matter what happens. Iran has already declared that they would attack American bases if Israel attacks Iran.

 

[Danielle_E.]

He's going to make sure whoever takes over is well groomed. Am I expecting fair and honest elections - no way! My heart goes out to the "normal" everyday Iranian people living under this government. Human rights are nonexistent.

My previous Director was from Iran. She left the country and came to Canada because of the revolution.. The stories she told me were hair raising. She said she would "never, ever" go back.

The Canadian Iranians that are complaining about the embassy closure and visas and passports to travel to Iran, I say if you want to go, sure, we will find a way for you to leave, but you will not be allowed to come back. It will be a one-way trip.

 

[WendyJ]

I wish that the US would show some guts like Canada. But we're too busy trying to blame ourselves. MUSLIM RADICALS are NOT our friends, and they have no desire to be our friends. And yet Obama still seems to be convinced that, if we're nice enough, that they will like us. I just saw Netanyahu being interviewed, and he gets it. I think he is an amazing Prime Minister for Israel, and I am ashamed to have a POTUS who thinks it's more important to be on David Letterman than it is to meet with him.

Right now I am so sad and angry. Our country appointed Ambassador Stevens and the 3 other individuals who were killed, and yet we did nothing to protect them from what must have been a terrifying night, and a horrible death (one senator who knew him said Stevens was tortured, including sodomy) And I mean literally nothing to protect them, as the Embassy in Libya had a limited budget and couldn't afford a fortified facility, and Obama, himself, decreed that the Embassy guards were not allowed to have ammunition (they had guns, which were "for show" only....no bullets) So our poor guys were literally sitting ducks on September 11th, when trouble should have been anticipated, and protection provided. Obama might as well have simply handed them over with a smile on his face. But he was too busy campaigning to attend National Security meetings. Yes, I'm a conservative, but I would be just as angry with a President if he had been a Republican.

 

[ohmt]

Obama is not being nice to the radicals, he is being a president that does not condemn those who are innocent due to the actions of extremists.

This is what was released from the US embassy in Cairo:

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others"

Obama:

"The situation in Cairo was one in which an embassy that is being threatened by major protests releases a press release saying that the film that had disturbed so many Muslims around the world wasn’t representative of what Americans believe about Islam, in an effort to cool the situation down. It didn’t come from me, it didn’t come from Secretary Clinton; it came from folks on the ground who are potentially in danger. And my tendency is to cut folks a little bit of slack when they're in that circumstance, rather than try to question their judgment from the comfort of a campaign office."

And for the "no ammo" claim, after Fox Nation claimed the Obama kept Embassy guards from having ammunition, they wrote:

Update:

Marine spokesman at Pentagon Lt Col Chris Hughes says these reports are NOT true. This is on the record:

​

“The Ambassador and RSO have been completely and appropriately engaged with the security situation. No restrictions on weapons or weapons status have been imposed. This information comes from the Det Commander at AMEMB Cairo."

​

 

[Jill]

I think the current administration sure does:

Israeli Foreign Ministry: U.S. ignored Arab radicalization

Foreign Ministry official on signs of 'radicalization' in Arab world: ‘We knew what was happening, but the Americans preferred to find excuses.’

Link to article: http://www.haaretz.c...remium-1.465210

 

[vickie gee]

It would be nice for our country to have an Administration that stood up for Americans, for its people, and its principles and it would also make the world far less dangerous for Americans and for decent people of all faiths.

Actions and non-actions of politicians have both obvious and hidden agendas...same goes for people posting right here under multiple forum names.

 

[Jill]

Amen, Vickie!