Just trying to understand the Rules?

[Reble]

Being this is show time. I have noticed

:

Wondering why with shows in Supreme halter, they allow weanings, 1st and 2nd year minis.

They have not completely developed and in my opinon should not be best of the breed.

: Multi colour and solid just found in the back of the AMHR book rules.

page 243 Judged on 100% on colour, nothing on confirmation.

My understanding will give those minis that do not have the perfect confirmation have a chance to enjoy a class for showing off what they love.

Costume class should be only what the person showing has created?

Not bought or someone else has made.

WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND IN SHOWING, YOU THINK IS NOT CORRECT?

Might help the newbies understand?

:

Lets do this with just our opinons, Thanks :saludando:

No right or wrong?

 

[Pandora]

Well I can answer about color, I love color class. The judge judges the horse based on the horses color and not conformation that is correct. But every judge has their own colors they like and thier likes are what they place. For example, I showed a pinto this year and my mom showed an appy. We'd go back and forth on beating each other in the same class because of multiple judges and what the individual tastes are. And it's such a relaxing class, just have to walk in a circle..I love it. :aktion033:

 

[horsesmakeubroke]

I once made a costume for my son when he was little. It turned out so good we were put down for it being a store bought one!

:

 

[nootka]

My understanding of the Supreme Halter classes is that the best of the best and so you take the best of each age/gender division to compete, and YES, this includes weanlings and yearlings, etc.

BUT, in my EXPERIENCE and OBSERVATION, the more mature horses DO usually win out. However, most good judges can see past the immaturity and will reward a weanling or yearling with potential. They are looking at the horse in front of them AT THE TIME, not one year from now or last year. SO, when you review a horse's show record, and they were young when they won, you have to take that into account.

As for color, the no conformation counting in is not true. It does count and judges will choose a horse they already like in the halter classes for color in many cases. I have seen some that reward a flawless coat and bright color, but in most cases, the horse that is truly poorly conformed will not be pinned. I know it doesn't

"seem" right, but neither to me does breeding for color and so I do think the color classes should be considered with a bearing on conformation. Just my opinion....

As for costume, I was thinking part of the score was the horse's attitude towards the costume procedure as in a horse that was obviously upset would be marked down. Creativity and originality were big ones in the class as far as I understood. I don't compete in it, but have skimmed the rules on this one.

My feelings are if you don't understand the rules after reading the rule books, ask a good steward to help explain it to you. The stewards better understand the rules as they relate to us the exhibitors from the judges and show personnel/registries. If you still don't understand, then perhaps ask the registry themselves or the show committees why it is what it is and how something is judged, etc.

Liz M.

 

[Pandora]

As for color, the no conformation counting in is not true. It does count and judges will choose a horse they already like in the halter classes for color in many cases. I have seen some that reward a flawless coat and bright color, but in most cases, the horse that is truly poorly conformed will not be pinned. I know it doesn't "seem" right, but neither to me does breeding for color and so I do think the color classes should be considered with a bearing on conformation. Just my opinion....

I respectfully have to disagree with this. The gelding I showed this year did not do good in halter because his back legs are off, but as he gets more muscling they are getting better, so yeah he was placed correctly. But in color he kicked butt!! The same judges who placed him last in halter, placed him first or second in color. He's a gorgeous pinto.

I'm sure some judges have some horses they 'just like' and will place them in color regardless, but IME that has not been the case. :aktion033:

 

[nootka]

I did say that sometimes they will place a nice coat and a horse that is "way off" in other ways, but most times in my experience (been showing locally/regionally since 1997), they will choose a horse that is better in conformation as long as they have a nice coat, even over one with a "better" coat/color. Color is very much preferential.

We used to show a young filly that had a bad underbite in color as she was not super nice conformationally either, but "correct" if you will (i.e. no unsoundness causing conformational defects other than the underbite). Sometimes she would place high in the color but get nothing in halter, but more often than not, she was overlooked for a horse with better conformation, even a less nice coat.

BUT if you read the rules, it is supposed to lean towards color though I know in AMHA they do take into account conformation, which kinda goes with my line of thinking. I think if they consider color only, it might send the wrong message but again it is another option that is less "competitive" for horses that are less than perfect (believe me I compete in color certain times of the year w/my charcoal colored silver gelding and he's not perfect) though to breed just for color is wrong as in conformation first. Guess I found a little soapbox in this, but also sharing my observations showing both A and R for nearly 10 years.

Liz M.

 

[Pandora]

I only show "R" as that is the only shows around here so maybe that's why I'm experiencing what I am. But it is nice to get a blue even if it is for just color :bgrin

 

[Reble]

WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND IN SHOWING, YOU THINK IS NOT CORRECT?

If you have been showing for years, have you seen any GOOD CHANGES?

An experience in one of the shows we attended.

I have not been showing long, but notice some Judges are more relaxed than others.

The Judge asked has anyone here never shown before or not understand what they should expect in this class.

He took the time to explain what he was looking for and what you should do.

After you showed he took the time right than and there to tell you how you could improve.

Also had you retry the problem he noticed and tryed to help you correct it.

What a great learning experience.

Excellent judge

 

[Magic]

WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND IN SHOWING, YOU THINK IS NOT CORRECT?

If you have been showing for years, have you seen any good changes?

What I have found in showing that many times is not correct, is that there are way too many judgest that don't really know driving classes. I have a couple good friends who KNOW driving inside and out that have apprenticed with many different judges, and they have told me how many judges just do not know the rules, and do not understand the differences of the different classes, etc.

I have seen some good changes over the years-- many people work hard to implement better rules, for safety and clarity, and I think that things are improving all time.

 

[Reble]

WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND IN SHOWING, YOU THINK IS NOT CORRECT?

If you have been showing for years, have you seen any good changes?

What I have found in showing that many times is not correct, is that there are way too many judgest that don't really know driving classes. I have a couple good friends who KNOW driving inside and out that have apprenticed with many different judges, and they have told me how many judges just do not know the rules, and do not understand the differences of the different classes, etc.

I have seen some good changes over the years-- many people work hard to implement better rules, for safety and clarity, and I think that things are improving all time.

My husband has also noticed that, some smaller breeds do not extend well, and still place?

Or when they call for a collected gait, they have their horses nose bent into their chest.

Still learning and love it.

 

[disneyhorse]

I haven't noticed the rules to be too terribly ''not correct''...

In the Grand/Supreme halter, it is more difficult for a junior horse to place above a senior horse. But a judge has seen many horses over the years and let's face it, the judge is only looking at the selection of horses at the particular show. What if the senior horse class was very small and of poor overall quality, while the junior horses were all of exceptional quality? The junior horses would therefor place better than the senior horses when grouped together. You will notice a lot of times a mature-looking baby will place well while shown in its younger years, while the immature-looking junior horses won't show well until they really ARE mature.

One thing I kinda don't understand is why you have to pay to enter driving stakes classes (which are the ''Champion'' classes) but not the halter championship classes... I would ''think'' the first and second place driving horses would automatically just be entered in the Stakes class?? But I'm GUESSING it's because performance can vary so much... my stallion, for instance always places last in his first driving class, middle-of-the class by the second go, and then is finally ''on'' for his Stakes class and places first. So go figure.

Andrea

 

[mistyrose]

One thing I kinda don't understand is why you have to pay to enter driving stakes classes (which are the ''Champion'' classes) but not the halter championship classes

This is because it is not the Championship class but a non rated money class. Usually it pays a percentage of the entry fees plus an added amount put up by the club sponsoring the show.

 

[Sunny]

Being this is show time. I have noticed

:

Wondering why with shows in Supreme halter, they allow weanings, 1st and 2nd year minis.

They have not completely developed and in my opinon should not be best of the breed.

: Multi colour and solid just found in the back of the AMHR book rules.

page 243 Judged on 100% on colour, nothing on confirmation.

My understanding will give those minis that do not have the perfect confirmation have a chance to enjoy a class for showing off what they love.

Costume class should be only what the person showing has created?

Not bought or someone else has made.

Hi Mary.

I think you got some good answers about the Supreme halter part of your question (even though you were really referring to the Grand Champions. Even though the judge is judging what is standing there on that particular day, not what a horse will look like in the future, I still have a problem with weanlings being pinned Grand Champion. As to "why" a junior goes Grand, it's totally the judge's own opinion and he or she just thinks that particular junior is the best.

As for colour, I've heard all kinds of things in the ten years we've been showing! You're right that the rule book indicates that it's to be judged 100% on colour. One judge told us (when we were newbies) that in multi-colour, the horse has to be 50/50 colour with even markings on both sides. Another has told us that a horse with a different coloured mane and tail, like a silver bay for example, would never win a solid colour class because it has more than one colour.

: Someone else said they would mark a solid horse down if it had any white markings. Another judge told me that she compares the colour to large horse breed (where applicable). For example, is that pinto a good example of what the Pinto Association looks for? Or is that palomino up to the standard of the Palomino breed? How does that appy compare to the Appaloosa rule book description? And I've had a few judges tell me that they will pin horses that have been showing all day but maybe not doing so great so that the person also gets a chance to win. I think the colour classes are just one of those things where you can ask ten judges their reasons and you'll get ten totally different answers. I really don't think there's any rhyme or reason to it beyond the judge's personal preference.

Costume is another class kind of like that, from what I've seen. I've never shown in it but I've seen lots of them. A friend of mine used to show in it, and she would spend hours and hours making these fabulous costumes. Sometimes she'd be first or second, other times she place way below some Very simple costume that would make us all say, Huh? No rhyme or reason to this class, either, IMO.

I watched a Youth costume class once, and a couple of little girls brought in their mini, and they were all decked out in the most beautiful colours of ribbons, the girls in these beautiful little dresses, the horse was adorable, and I thought it was a hands down winner. I think they were supposed to be fairies or something, can't remember for sure now. They didn't place very high at all. A few days after the show, I asked my friend who was judging that day, why the girls placed so low. The reply was that, when asked, the girls couldn't say what they or their horse were supposed to be, they didn't know who made the costumes, and they weren't wearing appropriate footwear (they had on sandals).

I really like a judge who takes the time to help exhibitors learn and improve their skills.

 

[Reble]

Thanks Judy, for your comments, always helps to hear other opinons.

We also leave the costume classes for the children.

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