Khan's unresolved "peeing" issues

[LindaL]

Short review...Back in April Khan developed a UTI (this was confirmed both by his peeing in dribbles and by test results). he was put on meds and his peeing symptoms (the dribbling) went away...but he was also drinking A LOT (a whole bucket twice a day sometimes), which also made him pee A LOT. Had the vet out again (this was about 3 weeks ago) and he took bloodwork and the only things he found were slightly high white blood cell count and slightly "off" electrolite levels (probably due to his excessive drinking) and was put back on meds...this time for 30 days so he is still on them...He has not improved at all...he is stalled pretty much 24/7 (we let him have turn out when we are there), so his stall is NASTY every day...soaked in pee!

So, I went looking on my own for different things that could cause this (other than infection)...and other than boredom (which is my 1st thought)...I found Cushing's Disease, which I know really nothing about but have heard others here talk about with their horses. The thing is...the articles I read said it is usually older horses that develop it and Khan is a yearling. Some of the same symptoms they list, Khan has but I never attributed to his peeing...his hair growth is longer than a nice short summer coat, he has a pot belly (we wormed him cause we thought it was that), and he was "off" on his back end which we had thought may be from pain in his kidneys from infection...but maybe he has laminitis??

Maybe I am reading wayyy too much into everything (kind of like people do when they try to diagnose themselves)...but I need your help in helping me figure this out.

Here is what we plan to do...He will get daily turn out, so he is not staying in his stall all day long (this will help with both boredome and being in his nasty stall, which in turn will be less nasty since he isnt in it all day), he still has another whole week on the meds, so we'll see if he improves any more, being out in the sun may help with his coat...but of course won't help his gut since he will be on grass.

We thought about having the vet out once again, but maybe we should wait and see?

If we suspect Cushing's (even tho the age thing isnt "normal"), what should we do to help with that?

Anything else we can do?

I need your horse experience on this one...

BTW, for those who don't know...we will be moving from Oregon to Florida in 5 weeks (with a 10 day stop in Tulsa), so this will be a long trip and he will be stalled/stuck in trailer for long periods during this time. When we get there, he WILL be turned out since it will be our own place and I will have complete control over this (unlike now where he is in a boarding facility).

 

[Marty]

I think when a horse is over stalled this leads to so many negative things ulcers and stall vices, one of which could be excessive drinking. Stalling a horse 24/7 I personally think is bad for a horse and I'll betcha a good daily turn out is going to help him not only mentally but physically. I think you are totally on the right track letting him out much more often every single day. Ulcer meds and probios might be a consideration too. That pot belly can be a sign of ulcers. It is unlikely that laminitis is found in the back feet first but you never know so tread softly and expose him to his new grass little by little.

 

[LindaL]

I totally agree with the over-stalling thing Marty...I can't wait to be at our own place where we control this!

The grass here is pretty much done being the "lush" green grass it is earlier in the season...and he has been turned out some already, so I am not too worried with the grass being worse for him and causing him to founder.

 

[Connie Ballard]

Boredom is probably big part of it. Just wondered if he had a salt block in his stall? We had to remove a salt block from one of our horses stalls (and he could come/go 24/7 in a drylot paddock because he was abusive with the salt block. The excessive drinking when he didnt get tons of salt followed by a bucket of water. We did run a blood panel on him to see if something was out of balance causing him to want the nutrients from the block, but everything came back good.

Good luck with your boy and your BIG trip!!!

 

[MountainMeadows]

Linda

Have you checked his overall blood levels? I would be wondering about kidney disease - how is his creatinin level - should be below 4 as I recall. Sonata is in kidney failure and was drinking heavily and really went downhill fast last fall. We pulled her thru, but and she looks great now and acts normal, but we checked her blood last week and it her creatinin levels are still over 8 which is bad.

I would also suspect ulcers which can cause a lot of water drinking - might want to start him on Gastroguard - spendy, but worth it - it will take a few days to see any changes if ulcers are part of the problem.

Hoping for the best for your guy

Stac

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

Did you ever say what type of drugs he is on? 30 days is a long time for no improvement and if nothing else the gastroguard should not hurt him to take it, with such a long time on meds.

Good luck with your boy, sure hope he improves quickly!

 

[disneyhorse]

My stallion has this same "issue"... at six months old he was drinking so much he was bloated and soaking his stall with urine. I did several simultaneous blood/urine tests to rule out infections, metabolism, and organ issues. Basically... he was bored and/or it was behavioral. Under my veterinarian's direction, I slowly began to ration his water.

He has had his water rationed for four years now and is doing wonderfully. He has "learned" the proper amount to drink and if he's turned out or at a horse show where he's distracted, he can have free choice water. But when in his box stall, he just gets his ration of water along with his hay. He is healthy on it and I know he won't flood his stall.

Drinking too much water can actually be harmful if you allow it to continue, as it will deplete his electrolyte balance and his system can crash. Therefore that is why my vet has me ration my guy's water, just to be on the safe side. As it does more good than harm. It's not a big deal.

Andrea

 

[susanne]

Linda, I don't know which vet you use...if it's one near the boarding stable or someone else, but if the former, I'd get a second opinion.

We had an incredibly STUPID misdiagnosis on Scarlet from one of the local vets (I'll tell you who in private if you want to know.

 

[MooreAcres]

Susanne,

Wouldnt be Dr. B or Dr. F, now would it? LOL I only use the local vets for minor things that I already know what the problems are. I'm my own vet around here.

That being said, Linda my gut tells me something else is going on. Just his overall condition looking at him. His dull long coat, the pot belly, slight ribby, down behavior...somethings up.

 

[susanne]

Erin, Dr. F would never be allowed NEAR one of my horses, but assuming there is only Dr B, you got it! Never, never again!

 

[HGFarm]

My friends just rescued a sick and very thin mare. She dribbled pee all the time. Her white count was and is still, high. She has been on antibiotics for about a month, however, they had to use the mildest as she was having kidney failure also. It was discovered she has a BLADDER STONE, that was blocking her up and interfering with her ability to pee, however with the antibiotics, the infection is gone and the swelling is reduced and she can pee ok now as the stone has dropped down a bit. Her kidneys are finally back to normal but she still has the stone (and also just passed a 2.5" entrolyth!!!) but her white count is still high. Since the last bloodwork showed her kidneys were ok again, they have changed her to a stronger antibiotic. She has put on some weight and is MUCH perkier than when she arrived a few weeks ago, but has a long way to go.

Dont know if ANY of this info will help but I couldnt help but notice a few similarities with your case and this one.

 

[Margo_C-T]

There've been several good suggestions, so no need for me to reinterate--most would make the quality of his life better, regardless, IMPO.

Like Moore Acres, my gut's saying that something more is going on, and to be perfectly honest, the thought of hauling this youngster that far, then keeping him in a stall at a big show for 10 days, then ANOTHER significant haul, all this encompassing a COMPLETE change of climate, etc., would give me GREAT concern...it is stress piled upon stress followed by stress, IMO.

I know someone who took a mature stallion(he is at least 3 yrs. old), basically unhandled before they got him about a year prior, but had gentled nicely, and was being seriously ground-driven as a driving prospect)to AMHA World last year, really just for the 'experience' of being there, as I understand it.He appeared to be a completely HEALTHY horse prior to this trip, yet this horse developed hyperlipemia(hyperlypidemia? not sure which is correct), apparently due to the stress of such a drastic change of living conditions), ended up at a vet's clinic in the Ft.Worth area for a LONG time. Last I heard, he has survived, FINALLY, but they are not sure he will EVER be able to be driven, and the cost was QUITE extensive, as I understand.

Such travel/change-of-routine is VERY hard on some horses, even when they are and have a recent history of being, completely healthy; logic dictates that bad effects could be much worse for a susceptible horse who has, or has so recently had, serious health issues. I personally would be very, VERY reluctant to subject a horse, especially a youngster who is more vulnerable to about everything than is a mature horse, to the multiple stresses unavoidable in a trip and move such as you are planning. JMHO, and I'm sure, not what you wanted to hear--sorry.

Margo

 

[Charlotte]

What a frustrating and worrisome problem. There are a lot of good suggestions here. Now this has been our experience with such as this:

Every few years we have a client show candidate come in who at some point begins drinking excessively and FLOODING thier stall. We've done all the veterinary testing, tried numerous remedies, and found that turn out completley cured the problem in just a few days or less.

My personal opinion: Some horses simply don't tolerate being stalled. Period. The horses that have done this lost condition....poor coat, big belly, difficult to get weight on, lack of muscle mass, no zip to them. And if you think about it, all of that water is washing the nutrients from their diet right out of them!

In every case, and there have been a number of them, turn out was an immediate cure and the horse gained condition quickly. I hope, since you are moving to a different situation, that this is a quick cure for your guy.

Charlotte

 

[LindaL]

Thanks everyone for your opinions and suggestions. I do appreciate them all and hope that by using some of them he gets well.

I have decided to let him have daily turn out and limit his daily intake of water. NO salt block as he just EATS it like candy. I wormed him again (just in case) and have him on, along with is normal daily diet, a rice bran oil to help with his coat and overall body condition (hopefully). he still has 1 week left on his meds (sulfa tabs), then we will just do a *short* wait and see on him to see if he is getting/looking better.

We have already discussed letting another vet come out and evaluate him if he doesn't appear any better in a week or so and is still soaking (even with turn out) his stall.

 

[LindaL]

UPDATE: Aug. 13 on Khan...

Here is what we ended up doing...we finished his meds, turned him out on a daily basis, wormed him and limited his water intake by only filling his bucket up 1/2 way.

He is 99% better...and getting better everyday! He does not soak his stall anymore (he poops more than pees now...lol), he doesn't even finish his 1/2 bucket of water (but is drinking), his coat is looking much better and you can tell he FEELS better!!

He still has a bit of a pot belly, but that could be from his grass intake now and not getting worked, but I will take that over what he was like before!!

He is HEALTHY and that is all I wanted! He will, I am sure, continue to improve and thrive and become an awesome stallion in the months to come in his new environment in Florida!

(BTW, I think he started drinking a lot of water at the beginning to help fight off his infection, but it became a "habit" (out of boredom in his stall) to continue drinking so much)

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

Glad to hear he is feeling better. Nothing like worrying about unresolved issues. YAY Khan!

 

[HGFarm]

YEAH!! Sounds like he is much better! I feel sorry for horses that are stalled all the time- they can and do pick up some really hazardous habits at times. Horses were not meant to live in a box. Sounds like you are doing well with him now!