Laminitis

[Marsha Cassada]

Have a driving horse that was diagnosed with acute laminitis yesterday. I've put him in a dry lot and am altering his feed. Gave him a dose of banamine.

What experience does anyone have with this condition, long term?

Thanks for any help.

 

[chandab]

With excellent farrier care my two laminitic mares are doing quite well. One is on an extremely strict diet, the other not as strict. For the one mare, it took bute to help her initially, as banamine wouldn't touch her pain, then she went on B-L pellets for 6 months (it was 6 months before I felt comfortable trying her off them, she was fine). [b-L pellets can't be used on pregnant mares.] Its been such a long road with these two mares, that I can't begin to tell their stories (I really just don't remember the details), just so glad I finally found a competent farrier that has worked wonders with them both.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Unfortunately, laminitis can be frustrating as it doesn't always respond to therapy the same. Thus you will hear many different treatment options.

The hallmarks for any treatment protocol should include pain management and diagnosis along with removal of inciting cause.

Dr Taylor

 

[Lori W]

I have a half Haflinger pony with chronic laminitis due to Cushings and insulin resistence. I work closely with my vet and a lameness specialist farrier to keep him as sound as possible. He's in a dry lot and I feed him several small meals of first cutting hay each day - this mimics grazing, will help stave off ulcers, and keeps his metabolism steady. He also gets Quiessence along with necessary vitamins. And since he is cushinoid, he's on Pergolide, too.

When he has a bout of laminitis (acute), my main concern is providing relief for him. Since he's a pony (not a mini), I add bute twice a day. I don't think anyone recommends bute for minis. Banamine or one of the other NSAIDs are usually used (check the forum for pain relief regimes for minis). You also have to consider the real possibility of ulcers.

If his symptoms are severe, I keep him stalled in 6" or more of sawdust; sand will also work, but I don't like the possibility of ingesting sand. Otherwise, if he's moving about okay (just sore), I let him stay in his dry lot since he's much happier outside, watching him closely to make sure he's able to walk to his water without trouble. I have also used boots with a gel insole to cushion his feet and/or keep out the ice balls that form in the winter.

Whenever an acute bout of laminitis occurs, I have the vet out to assess him and take additional x-rays of his feet, if needed. Rotation of the coffin bone is a killer. The farrier also checks the x-rays before any additional trimming is done.

Here's a website I've found helpful regarding laminitis: http://evrp.lsu.edu/06laminitis.htm

Best of luck to you and your little one!

 

[targetsmom]

I would suggest a forum search for founder or laminitis - two words that strike terror into many of us who have dealt with it.

Once this happens it is much more likely to happen again. My first horse, 50 years ago, foundered (I use the terms interchangeably which I KNOW is not correct) on bread that the restaurant next door was feeding her. After that she would founder on grass, or even in the winter for no reason at all. First time it happened we soaked her feet in a cold stream and I am pretty sure they still recommend cold on the affected feet. Sometimes her feet got so bad she could barely walk. Very sad to see.

Back then they didn't have Remission, which is a supplement to help prevent founder or more episodes. It contains Magnessium and Chromium and is fairly inexpensive. I use it for any fat minis plus our insulin resistant one.

Good luck.

ETA: Quiessence and Remission have the same ingredients - and both will "quiet" the horse too.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

That website was most informative. Thank you.

I did do a search on the forum for laminitis, but it came up nil. Maybe I didn't do the search correctly.

The trimmer said we caught his condition in the early stages. If this is the early stage, I dread to imagine a later stage...

Thanks for the replies.

 

[cretahillsgal]

Oh no!! So sorry to hear Marsha. But I know you've got one of the best trimmers around working on your horses so you are good to go there!

Shelly trims my 2 ponies who have foundered in the past, but right now I don't have any issues with them. I do keep them on grass hay only and feed SafeChoice since it is lower in starches and sugars. No alfalfa or green grass. (which wasn't a problem this year LOL)

 

[Hosscrazy]

Yes, unfortunately I have experienced both laminitis and founder as a result of Cushings/IR. The best thing you can do is work with your vet and farrier, which you are already doing. I'm so glad to hear it was caught early! I remember being told all sorts of "home remedies" to "fix" it, including taping tuna fish can lids to her feet???

Anyway, sounds like you've taken all the right steps and hopefully there will be a full recovery. A couple good resources:

http://www.safergrass.org/

http://horseshoes.com/

Horseshoes.com has videos, educational materials, and experienced farriers that are a wealth of information.

Best wishes,

Liz N.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Oh no! I just went over to the other forum and read your update. Well, at least you know, wonder why the vet didn't catch that. Anyway, here's my 2 cents (worth what you pay probably);

If you caught it in its early stages (before the bones begin to shift) there is every reason to hope for a full recovery. I have seen laminitis in 2 horses. My driving mare had a short bout of it one winter when she was carrying her one and only foal. I didn't really do much in the way of treatment, changed her diet by reducing sugars(starch) and increased her access to loose minerals. She has never gone other than sound again and the farrier tells me he sees no signs of it in her feet now. The other was a pony gelding we bought already foundered. He had the slipper toes already and it was easy for even a lay person to see he was in pain. He'd been fed by an old farmer who would just turn him out on grass all year and fed oats and carrots as treats. On top of that he rarely trimmed their feet (there were 2 brothers, one foundered the other didn't) Once again with a good diet low in sugars and some consistent good farrier work we had that pony sound in less than a year. A person who knows what to look for can still see he was foundered by looking at his front hooves but he is pain free and happy, even useful, since he has since been trained as one half of a pair with his brother. So my point is don't give up on Dusty, with time and care he may very well be the horse he was. Maybe even better since you will know he is at risk and keep his weight in check etc.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Marsha, Bob is IR as you know. He had some rotation earlier this year, but he still drives sound. He is on drylot and I have switched him to Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage. That is safer for him than regular hay, especially in this drought, as I know the NSC in each bag is safe for him. I don't have that guarantee when buying hay from whoever I can get it from right now, and I don't like dealing with soaking hay, particularly over the winter.

As Dr Taylor said, you need to know what caused it to try to prevent it from happening again.

Julie, I don't know the exact situation with your ponies, but while SafeChoice may have a lower NSC than some feeds, but it is still very high. I forget the exact number, but it is well above the recommended amount for an insulin resistant horse. That may not be the issue with your ponies, though.

Marsha, feeding him will depend on what triggered his laminitis. He's still a young horse, so Cushings shouldn't be the issue. I haven't seen him since he left his seller's, so I don't know if IR could be the issue (I know his dam wasn't IR, and I don't remember his sire having any signs of it in the short time he was in Oklahoma), or what else could be going on. I will send you an email tonight.

 

[Shari]

The rescue Icelandic I took in over 2 1/2 years ago had chronic founder and a deep infection in her hoof.

It took me with a good Vet and Farrier, 2 years to get her sound and stable but it can be done.

Not that your mini has this, but for deep infections of the hoof I highly recommend CleanTrax. This is the only thing out there that got rid of Stjarna's deep infection. (Was told, White Lighting, was just as good but couldn't get ahold of it)

The vitamins I feed her are, Triple Crown's Low starch.

It takes time for a horse's hoof to heal, up to 8 months for the hoof to fully grow out. But you can get them and keep them sound, just takes a bit of time and work.

 

[Hosscrazy]

Good article in TheHorse.com just came out, too:

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=19147

Liz N.

 

[targetsmom]

Interesting that 50 years after my mare foundered they are still recommending standing the horse is a stream. Of course we didn't have the fancy cold wraps or boots then.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Very old Gypsy remedy- cut the feet back till they bleed, hot shoe the horse and then stand in a stream overnight.

If your horse is still alive in the morning (I added that bit!) it will be cured.

I do NOT suggest trying this, but paring can be very helpful.

I am afraid Bute is the drug of choice- you do need to give it carefully but short term there is no reason why it should be harmful- I do give Ranitidene at the same time (after not before dosing) Of course you should run all this by your Vet.

I am so sorry this has happened to you, it is always a horrible thing and very stressful.

 

[prairie ponies]

I would suggest a forum search for founder or laminitis - two words that strike terror into many of us who have dealt with it.

Once this happens it is much more likely to happen again. My first horse, 50 years ago, foundered (I use the terms interchangeably which I KNOW is not correct) on bread that the restaurant next door was feeding her. After that she would founder on grass, or even in the winter for no reason at all. First time it happened we soaked her feet in a cold stream and I am pretty sure they still recommend cold on the affected feet. Sometimes her feet got so bad she could barely walk. Very sad to see.

Back then they didn't have Remission, which is a supplement to help prevent founder or more episodes. It contains Magnessium and Chromium and is fairly inexpensive. I use it for any fat minis plus our insulin resistant one.

Good luck.

ETA: Quiessence and Remission have the same ingredients - and both will "quiet" the horse too.

The winter founder sure cought my attention. My mare has foundered the last two February's in Michigan when it got VERY cold! I spent this this entire summer getting her sound again (at the least not in pain) with monthy trips to the University Hospital. I just dred what will happen to her this winter. I sure need an answer for her? The vets at the university just scratch thier heads and seemed puzzled. They accually argue that cold is not the onset. I know it is. My farrier agrees that it is cold onset and is puzzled. He says he has one other that does it in the winter. I have her thin and on IR herbs, and bad grass hay. Just dont know what else to do for her to keep this winter's cold from bringing on the founder.

 

[Marty]

HI Marsha, and I'm so sorry about this.

What you are doing is not nearly enough and you need to become very aggressive right now.

I've put him in a dry lot and am altering his feed. Gave him a dose of banamine.

You need to be out there soaking his feet about 3 times a day in cool water for about a week.

You need to be dosing banamine daily too. If it is not working, you'll have to up the anny and either increase it or go to something like a half of tab of bute but he is not going to stabilize unless you get him out of pain.

Don't worry about his feed right this minute; do your dry lot and soak your hay and then get him on some serious feed designed for this type of horse. You'll need to get yourself a real natural barefoot trimmer who's been trained by Pete Ramey or Gene Overneck's methods and that's not easy so start looking around.

I'm really sorry! Hugs

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

The winter founder sure cought my attention. My mare has foundered the last two February's in Michigan when it got VERY cold! I spent this this entire summer getting her sound again (at the least not in pain) with monthy trips to the University Hospital. I just dred what will happen to her this winter. I sure need an answer for her? The vets at the university just scratch thier heads and seemed puzzled. They accually argue that cold is not the onset. I know it is. My farrier agrees that it is cold onset and is puzzled. He says he has one other that does it in the winter. I have her thin and on IR herbs, and bad grass hay. Just dont know what else to do for her to keep this winter's cold from bringing on the founder.

Prairie ponies, could it be the hard ground thats causing your mares trouble? If it is then keeping her on a softer surface - well bedded large stall perhaps or... I'm not sure what your situation is so its hard to make suggestions but anyway you can help soften the surface she stands on. Just a thought.

 

[targetsmom]

Prairie Ponies- My farrier pointed out to me that he leaves the hoof a bit longer in the winter to help insulate against the cold ground. I had a mini get sore in the winter from a too short trim (by a different farrier). I thought it was from walking on hard, uneven ground, but he said the cold itself will do it. You might see if keeping the feet just a bit longer helps.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

HI Marsha, and I'm so sorry about this.

What you are doing is not nearly enough and you need to become very aggressive right now.

I've put him in a dry lot and am altering his feed. Gave him a dose of banamine.

You need to be out there soaking his feet about 3 times a day in cool water for about a week.

You need to be dosing banamine daily too. If it is not working, you'll have to up the anny and either increase it or go to something like a half of tab of bute but he is not going to stabilize unless you get him out of pain.

Don't worry about his feed right this minute; do your dry lot and soak your hay and then get him on some serious feed designed for this type of horse. You'll need to get yourself a real natural barefoot trimmer who's been trained by Pete Ramey or Gene Overneck's methods and that's not easy so start looking around.

I'm really sorry! Hugs

My trimmer is a certified barefoot trimmer. That is why I'm taking her opinion over the vet, who thinks it is not laminitis. I am following her advice.

Dusty seems to be responding to the banamine well. My trimmer said we caught it in very early stage.

I will try the cool water.

 

[prairie ponies]

Targetsmom and Reignmaker, Thankyou, I haven't really tried a proactive soft stall it has always been after the fact, sure worth a try! And I am so careful about the farrier every 6 weeks, I will ajust that and talk to the farrier about leaving her feet longer. I wonnder if I should try shoes and pads this winter?