LGD for small farm???

[Diamondinmypocket]

I have a future business in discussion with my friend/trainer involving a hunter/jumper barn. We ended up together as my friend rented the huge pasture behind me. She is the trainer and I am the farm manager.

I have no dreams of miniatures other than to enjoy the 2 hopefully 3 next year. I have a pygmy goat, 2 silky chickens, and a couple of feral barn cats on the way for rodent control. These are my family farm pets. I also have a lab who is an indoor dog. My family farm animals are priceless. My friend currently has 2 huge warmbloods here on my land. Her horses do have a pricetag, which is huge.

With last years wildfires and our location, there are wild domestic dogs as well as cyotes. Our property is 5 acres and all fenced. My kids play outside while I am out doing chores. We have had strange dogs show up, and I have to have my kids indoors while they are here and worry about my little family outside. My chickens know our dog wont hurt them so I dont know if a strange dog would cause any alarm. And the dogs are all big breed agressisve type dogs like pitbulls and shephards, and they come in pairs. We also have bobcats and bobcat hybrids, also a puma is known in this area. Be cool to see, but not munching on my pets. Its very secluded where I am with lots of piney woods. My neighbor has a stock tank that attracts animals during droughts. If the big horses are on back pasture, I worry the animals would use my land to get across.

I am thinking about a LGD. Anyone have some advice or experiences to share?

 

[Mona]

I have had both a male Great Pyrenees as well as a female Anatolian Shepherd. We owned these dogs at different times, and we had them "fixed" as pups. Both were SUPER breeds with the minis and we excellent guardians, however, they are "territorial" and if not completely confined they will start broadening "their" area more and more, and it gets to where they were going to neighbrs and barking to ward of things there as well as here, and we were not able to keep them in with our fencing, because any low spot in the ground under the funce they were able to get through and go out making their rounds. If you have stable fencing that is digproof on the perimeter, then you will love either breed. The Pyr has a huge coat though and prone to matting if not brushed regularily and of course, a magnet for burrs.The Anatolian had a sort of more medium length coat....not short, short, but a little longer hair with an undercoat...EASY to maintain!!

 

[Joanne]

As someone that has endured the loss of a miniature horse due to a pair of pitbulls you have a lot to worry about. We have also had 100 pound rottweillers here and had to turn them over to animal control.

The dogs coming in pairs is common and worrisome, to kids and horses alike. Your lab would be no match for these more aggressive breeds.

I personally would try and catch any stray animals if you can do so safely and turn them over to animal control. Also, notify animal control that you have a problem. Some have live traps that you can set out to catch the stray.

 

[Lil Eowyn]

My lab is an outdoor dog and she'll bark at any stranger growls at any strange animal. We Mountain Lion sitings in our area once and there were some sightings right by us. We heard one in our field once too and we always hear wolves and coyotes outside at night. They never bothered us--but if you feel you should, then its up to you. 2 dogs came once and were biting at our old gelding and so my Dad shot his gun in the air and they ran away and never came back.

 

[Lizzie]

The are tons of Pys in rescue and many who are experienced livestock guardians. This because so many have lost their farms and ranches, in the dwindling economy. If you do get any breed of livestock guardian, make sure you have absolutely large dog-proof fencing. This because all LGs consider everything they can see, their own property. They will dig or jump over fencing, to chase any animal they see which doesn't belong. They are barkers and often will bark all night. They were bred to do this, so if you have close neighbours, that might not go down very well. Should you get a grown rescue, make sure it has been tested with all animal types you currently own. If you get a pup, make sure it comes from working stock and not necessarily, just show stock. Make absolutely sure that the breeders have tested their breeding stock for all the genetic problems, known in the breed you choose. All have genetic problems. Unfortunately, many who breed purely working dogs, do not do the necessary genetic testing, so you will need to demand to see the results of testing and from the appropriate authorities. A dog deemed 'healthy' by their local vet, is not enough. Research will show you what the parents should have been tested for. Do not make pets out of your guardian dogs. They must live outside with the other animals. Many who breed purely working dogs, bring up the pups with the herd of that which they will guard later. Remember, LGs have been bred to chase, attack and kill predators. Some might not do well with your pet animals unless brought up to know them or introduced very carefully. Pet animals can also be contained within secure fencing on your property. There are many LG breeds. Google Livestock Guardian Breeds and do some research. Maremmas are also becoming popular, although Pyrs and Anatolians seem to have been most popular in recent years.

 

[Jill]

We have an 8mos old 3/4 Pyrenees / 1/4 Lab mix and he is really good with the horses and very protective of everything that's "his". He is outside most of the day but inside at night or in bad weather. He's really pretty, too

He is tan and black w/ a white chest and a very good boy.

 

[Diamondinmypocket]

Well, my lab would lay down her life for us... But shes kept indoors. I have a sick twisted arsonest ex stalking me. So if I or my children are not outside, shes indoors. Shes a great dog but dosen't seem to understand yard boundaries. Shes taged and chipped.

As for animal control, I know a bit about as was the cities kennel clerk. Different city than where I am now.

If anyone remembers the bad wildfire in texas last year, this property was a base command and fireline. I can walk 200 yards east to where the fire was stopped. I did not live here at the time but 60 miles n.w. When it happened. I have met several people that lived here during it and most had minutes to escape. Thousands of pets were left. I do not know why aco is so bad here... I do know my neighbor is a hoarder, was convicted in past and is doing it again. No officer ever shows up out here. I was told by sheriff to just shoot strays. Not what I do for fun if you know what I mean. My neighbor "claimed" dogs were killing her goats and cats...

I have no room indoors for another dog. I need a dog who can do it all and be happy sleeping in a barn. As hard as it may sound, all of my animals have a job. I can't yet afford to own pets just to admire. Cats are feral, need a safe place, and will earn their keep by keeping the rats out of my feed. Diamond is my daughters pet. Goat was to get Diamond from being so lonely and crying everynight.. He also doubles as weed manager. Chickens for fresh eggs. Diamond adds to springs veggie garden with manure... I am here alone all day. Most danger is at night when hubby is home. But the dogs come during the day....

I am trying to make the best decision. If we don't get to buy this property in 2 years we do have to move. So I have to think long term as well. I do not know many small animal (goat) farmers so I don't have anyone local to ask...

 

[Jill]

It sounds like you could use a license to carry, if you don't already have one!

 

[ruffian]

I say you need to decide if you want to risk your animals health and safety or learn to shoot. A couple of strays can butcher everything they see in a very short time.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would shoot, myself. That way you are sure, but, if you can afford to take the dog with you if you move I would also get a LGD- you cannot have too much protection, after all. If you can keep the dog in the barn at night you will have less trouble with it straying and it will be able to do it's guarding in the barn, so everyone would be happy. The only thing I can see wrong with this is the problem of having to move, possibly, in two years/

I can understand your Pet/Working animal scenario completely and have no problem with it, my horses I love, but they are not pets!

 

[Diamondinmypocket]

I was starting to think about just a serious investment in good fencing untill last night. I take a medicine that knocks me out at night. Good thing my hubby is a light sleeper. But at 4 am I heard a pack of dogs and cyotes celebrating a kill or hunt at about 4 am. It seemed right behind our barn in a pasture we dont use yet. It is the one the giant horses will bein soon. I didn't hear the goat, who cries out in alarm if he or diamond are seperated at anytime. Soon my rooster started crowing a bit too early, and I feared my hen was in trouble. But they sleep inside of a small coop inside the stall. All was ok thank goodness.

There is a young peranese (sp) available for adoption from working farm right now... (puppy).

As for a gun... I need to get one. And I would shoot if my animal was in trouble, if I could get a clear shot...

So what does moving mean by way of a lgd?

 

[Mona]

So what does moving mean by way of a lgd?

What do you mean?? Moving...as in roaming and guarding a larger and larger area is what I would think you mean by moving???

 

[Lizzie]

We have two GPs near here, who obviously get out constantly and roam the hills. I've even seen them walking down the side of the freeway. I hear the GP Texas rescue is so overwhelmed, that they are sending some of their dogs, to our rescue in S. California. Of course, many have not come from ranches. Seems that a lot of people get them because of their looks and then when they bark constantly in built up areas, neighbours complain and they end up in the pound or rescue. I have a friend who takes care of children with problems. Some can be unpredictable and rough. She is a wonderful GP and says it is the only breed she has found who can put up with some of her rather wild young boys. On the other hand, I read on my dog forum a while back, of a lady who had a Chihuahua and a GP together for a long time. One day, white out of the blue, her GP killed the Chi. LGs are bred to hunt down and dispatch predators, but this was very unusual.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

From what I have heard an Anatolian may be a better bet- they are employing them in Africa now as "Leopard dogs", training them and giving them out to responsible farmers as a means of preventing the farmers from (understandably) shooting the leopards. I reckon if they can face down a leopard a coyote would be a piece of cake. I would definitely, whatever breed you decide on, keep it penned up at night with the livestock- that way you know it and they are safe. The wild dogs would worry me far more than the coyotes, or even wolves for that matter- dogs may have descended from wolves but they never devolve back into them- they stay in that semi wild/feral state and have no fear of humans- if I had wild dogs anywhere near me I would learn to shoot, I would fear not just for the livestock but for myself- I have seen a pack of feral dogs (and this was on a housing estate) almost kill a woman- who was not panicking she knew what she was doing. If she had not got into a phone box they would have had her down on the ground and that would have been the end.

 

[Miniv]

Other guard animals to consider is a donkey or a llama..... We have a mini donkey, but would think a regular sized one is better. We also have three llamas - all female - and they've proved to be excellent guarders. They have charged at and driven out coyotes who have made the mistake of trying to cross a pasture.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

If you just want something to warn you then they are excellent- a Llama or even three would be no match for a pack of dogs though, I would hate to see what they would do to them. They could chase off a couple of coyotes because they, being truly wild, are more timid and cautious, but dogs are scared of nothing, a force to be reckoned with. A pack of dogs would scare the heck out of me, I can tell you, and I don't scare easy! - not talking of peoples pets roaming, here, but true "gone feral" dogs.

Edited for spelling- honestly why don't I just proof read before posting!

 

[Lizzie]

Three loose Pit bulls near here, killed 29 goats last year. It was a horrific scene. Two of the dogs were caught. The third never was, so is still out there somewhere. Yes, dogs are to be feared much more than Coyotes. One of the reasons we are moving, is to get away from so many loose PBs in our area. We have not been able to walk our own dogs for years.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Lizzie I feel for you. It has been years since I have seen a loose dog around here, we really are very very lucky! And of course we have no wolves (not since the 18th century!) or coyotes. No bears either, but that is all down to my stallions ceaseless patrolling of the fencelines (you can't tell him it's all in his head) He would dispatch any stray dog that got in, too, but if there were more than one he would have trouble;. Once they hunt in packs they are ten times worse than any wolf....

 

[vickie gee]

LGDs are great if you have fencing that will keep them from going over, under, around, or through. We have anatolian shepherds and spent $$$ getting the entire place fenced by professionals. We also have warning signs posted. It has been a good investment as most of our neighbors have had break ins or things stolen right off their porches. We have had no problem with thieves. You do not want to confine them to a barn. They want to protect the whole place. They are loud and they do have a mindset all their own. They are a huge liability as far as attacking what they percieve to be a threat to their owners, the property, all other animals on the place. They see you, your livestock, household dogs, domestic cats as well as adopted barn cats, chickens, and even neighbors in their sight that they get accustomed to as loved ones they need to protect. Anything and anyone else is a threat as far as they are concerned. Those razor sharp teeth can dismember animal or person. You need to be willing to train them so that they perceive you as the boss. If they can kill a pack of alpha baboons imagine what they would do to a serious threat to what they are protecting. They are worth their weight in gold but please do not even think about getting one until you have read up on all the pros and cons and do talk to several breeders to see if you really want to be an owner. We no longer breed but we do entrust our working pair to guard our place. In a normal week I might have to dispose of what is left of beavers, raccoons, otters, snakes, stray cats, armadillos and the like that made their way onto our property. We hear the wolves, coyotes, foxes, and what sounds like bigcats in the adjoining fields and woods but they are smart enough not to come into the dogs area.

So, I would recommend donkeys unless you are willing to invest in fencing and training. Way too many LGDs end up in rescue because the owners did not know what they were getting into. Good luck on whatever you go with.