Licking/Chewing = Learning?

[user 488]

Sorry - Mr. Roberts tends to get me a bit annoyed. I'll take a deep breath and settle down...

As for stress ...there is no way to get around it, is a part of life. If my animals are truely stressed, they do not lick and chew. They have hard mouths, pursed lips and so on.

Exactly right, Shari. That has also been my experience.

Monty Roberts is MORE than annoying. When people actually get sucked into all this BS it really makes me wonder. As I wrote in another post about "another so called horse whisperer". If you are knowledgeable enough....take the good from each and every one of them. They all as individuals have something good to draw from. But good old Monty......please..........anyone can run a wild horse down for two straight days and when it's about to drop over dead from exhaustion anyone could saddle it.(even Mr. Roberts, LOL) That whole program was such a FARCE! Again............most of these people are laughing all the way to the bank. $$$$$$$$

Also agree Shari.

When we are teaching the Arabs to stand up and show, quite often during moments of "down time" we will stick a finger into the side of their mouths which triggers a chewing response. This chewing response is one that helps a horse relax. It's a form of reward. Of course a carrot or two will trigger the same response......

 

[Shari]

The article never said that they lick and chew "during" stress. It stated as tagalong states, and mininik states. It is when pressure and stress is "over" that this response happens.

And Tagalong....THANK YOU for the Monty Roberts statements. I totally agree and have been to a couple of his demos and I totally agree with you. I can not stand this man professing to be a horse whisperer....He is far from it, in my mind.

Was talking about after a stressful time,, not during. As I said before... I am better with animals than talking with people.

Kaykay,,, mine still do not lick and chew after another horse has either made them mind their manners or moved them off.

Maggie and Theia are big on the "Stink" eye as I call it, Theia will more often than not just totally ignore who ever is trying to boss her around. Ella will shake her head and pin her ears back while moving off.

Dyfra is also big on that look. But no mouth movements at all.

Have spent hours upon hours watching them.

(Not talking about baby mouthing, or Donkey lips when they want a stud, since I am not talking about a foal or breeding.. )

 

[nluszcz]

Licking and mouthing is definately a sign of stress and submissiveness, most commonly seen in foals. Chewing is a sign of relaxation; they are two different things.

Dr Sue McDonnell pretty much wrote the book on equine courtship and reproductive behavior, and has done significant groundbreaking work with stallion's behavior and "alternative" breeding techniques. Her articles are definately worth reading! Most of her groundbreaking repro work was several decades ago, so its a little harder to read, but still most certainly on the list of required reading if you have any stallion questions!

 

[Leeana]

Not a big Monty Roberts fan here either, i seen him put on a demo at Equine Affare last year with a fresian and wasnt that impressed in any sense of the word.

If you watch any trainers on RFD-TV (Clinton Anderson, ext ..there are more ..the "cowboy" trainers), they all get so very excited when the horse starts chewing and licking and "thinking", they couldnt be more pleased if the horse did a back flip and talked french, as soon as the horse licks their lips they make it seem like Mission Accomplished

. To me, i take that behavior as "hey thank god that is over" and "Hmm okay got it".

I just skimmed the original post but will make a point to go back and re-read it in a moment. If you look at the horses overall body Language when they are licking/checking the horse is relaxed and "off gaurd" somewhat. I guess just what i have noticed.

Leeana

 

[Bunnylady]

I'm too new at all of this to have a strong opinion one way or another about what licking and chewing may mean. I would like to throw out an observation, though, and would be interested in any insights from people that have more experience than I do. Have you ever really watched the horse in the Stacey Westfall bareback reining video? He is licking and chewing like mad throughout the whole performance.

 

[Reijel's Mom]

I'm too new at all of this to have a strong opioion one way or another about what licking and chewing may mean. I would like to throw out an observation, though, and would be interested in any insights from people that have more experience than I do. Have you ever really watched the horse in the Stacey Westfall bareback reining video? He is licking and chewing like mad throughout the whole performance.

YES! I noticed that, too, and as awesome of a display of horsman(woman)ship that was, I thought that horse appeared stressed!

 

[wcr]

Bunny Lady- that was a very good observation about the Stacy Westfall performance. She couldn't have gotten that performance using intimidation or force. If you also noticed, she frequently petted and stroked the horses neck during the performance. That horse willingly gave her what she wanted because she has trained it positively and with a sensitivity to animal behavior. I think that is what has been debated here; the difference of licking and chewing from stress relief as opposed to the positive reinforcement.

I think "Natural Horsemanship" definately has a place in our training programs but you have to take it with a grain of salt, so to speak, and use bits and pieces from several sources. You need to become a trained observer to know what each horse needs for the reinforcement and what is a stress response. Most of the clinicians you see are using methods that are too harsh for our minis. These horses, in my opinion, are smarter and more sensitive than the biggies, and are easily overwhelmed by the methods you see used.