LWO question for the experts here

[kaprikorn]

Ok, this is a new area for me. I just got the results back on my stallion. . . nO. According to the test this means that he has one gene LWO and one not. . .if I read this right. Strange since he only has a strip and snip. . and one blue eye.

Question is. . .can he be bred safely to a LWO positive? And is a LWO positive a nO or a OO?

I know there are a lot of you pinto experts out there. . . .

Thanks,

Sheryl

 

[Mona]

NO, definately NOT safe to breed to another LWO+ horse. They do not have to exhibit the full frame pattern to have the LWO offspring when bred to another carrier. This is why it is so important to test before breeding. So you did the right thing by getting him tested, and now you know the results so you can make an informed decision when selecting which mares to breed him to. Even with the small amount he is showing, the possibilities for him to throw a loud, frame overo is still there!

 

[K Sera]

nO means he is Lethal white positive and should NOT be bred to a positive mare. To be safe, all mares should be tested before breeding to him if there is any doubt. Lots of info on the forum about this topic and you will get many responses. I have a LWO+ stallion myself and initially, it can be confusing ... but very interesting once you get into all the color genetics!

 

[kaprikorn]

Well. . that answers some questions ! But this is only for the Overo pattern not the Tobiano . .? If I have a mare whose dam was a tobiano, but she does not have any white at all. . .should she be tested also?

 

[ohmt]

Yep, just for the frame overo gene. You will be fine crossing him with sabino, splash, and tobiano....well ANY other pattern except frame! There are certain lines you need to be careful of-if you have a horse with Rowdy anywhere in their pedigree, definitely test, even if you can't see any white. If you have a solid horse with no white and no Rowdy and/or LWO in their immediate background, you shouldn't need to test. If your mare's dam was just tobiano you should also be ok. Go ahead and google some frame patterns so you can kind of get an idea of what you should look out for. The problem with LWO is it hides-like on your stallion. It can ALSO hide on tobiano! There is a forum member with a little chestnut pinto filly they had born last year I think?? Her sire is solid black with a snip and blue eyes (LWO positive), dam is tobiano/sabino and the filly came out looking just plain chestnut tobiano/sabino. They tested her and she was also LWO positive! When in doubt, always test

 

[kaprikorn]

Very interesting. . .he does have Rowdy on the bottom side ?? Interesting indeed. . .

 

[ohmt]

I'm guessing this is your gorgeous Scottie who tested LWO pos? I just looked at his pedigree on your website and if it's him, definitely came from Rowdy!

 

[supaspot]

I also have a LWO positive stallion , he is solid black and has two blue eyes , its not JUST Rowdy lines that carry it although Rowdy is probably the best known but its in other lines too , my boy is 100% falabella

 

[uwharrie]

Now I see why I had a missed call from you last night (sorry we go to be early here)

That knocks Velvet out for breeding to him,(darn it) Guess I had better get Dreamie and Shira tested. (though I am almost bet Shira is LWO+ as well)

 

[targetsmom]

Our young stallion Max is also LWO+ (from Rowdy) so we also have to test all our mares. Max resulted from a cross of an LWO+ minimal frame over gray mare (Rowdy bred) to a tobiano & maybe splash LWO negative (also Rowdy bred) stallion. Max is VERY loud (see avatar) except turning gray. So LWO+ is not a bad thing if you like the frame overo or tovero coat patterns.

Homozygous lethal white is the lethal form so you can't have an OO.

 

[kaprikorn]

Yep this is Scottie . . .

I guess his one blue eye was a tip off if ya knew what to look for. I just bought a pinto cremello to breed to him. . .not sure of her pattern so will have her and the solid sorrel tested. Better to be safe than sorry.

Just to clarify. . .+ to + = lethal white

+ to - = safe and can might get a pretty patterned foal?

I am doing more reaserch on the pinto now. . I used to have QHs prior and never had to worry with LWO, or really knew it exhisted. Now I have a whole new ballgame.

Thanks for everyones help!

 

[Songcatcher]

.... The problem with LWO is it hides-like on your stallion. It can ALSO hide on tobiano! There is a forum member with a little chestnut pinto filly they had born last year I think?? Her sire is solid black with a snip and blue eyes (LWO positive), dam is tobiano/sabino and the filly came out looking just plain chestnut tobiano/sabino. They tested her and she was also LWO positive! When in doubt, always test

And here they are again for reference:

McSperitts Rowdy Night Image (Rowdy grandson)

Bred to this mare who is minimally marked (lab tested) Tobiano, Bear Farms Nu Genes:

Produced this filly, Songcatchers Can You Imagine (lab tested LWO positive)

The same cross produced this colt the year before, also lab tested LWO positive, Songcatchers Walking After Midnight:

 

[targetsmom]

Hope this doesn't confuse you more but LWO+ to LWO+ doesn't always produce a lethal white foal - your chance is one in four. But why take that chance if all you have to do is test and not breed LWO+ to LWO+? Some breeders think crossing LWO+ to LWO+ increases your chance of a colorful frame ovreo foal, but all it really does is increase your chance of a dead one. Well, lethal white foals aren't born dead but die in 2-3 days.

 

[Carolyn R]

Yep this is Scottie . . .

I guess his one blue eye was a tip off if ya knew what to look for. I just bought a pinto cremello to breed to him. . .not sure of her pattern so will have her and the solid sorrel tested. Better to be safe than sorry.

Just to clarify. . .+ to + = lethal white

+ to - = safe and can might get a pretty patterned foal?

I am doing more reaserch on the pinto now. . I used to have QHs prior and never had to worry with LWO, or really knew it exhisted. Now I have a whole new ballgame.

Thanks for everyones help!

Yes, LWO+ and LWO+= a 25% chance of producing a lethal white foal that will always die shortly after birth (if it isn't still born)

LWO+ and LWO-= has no chance of producing a lethal white foal.

A responsable breeder will never cross LWO+ and LWO+. It is not worth that 25% chance of heartbreak.

 

[midnight star stables]

Your boy is LWO+. You should be thrilled! Frame overos are the most popular overos and also veiwed as "rare". I'm praying my mare gives me a LWO+ foal!

Heres the break down of a LWO+ bred to a LWO-

na | Na

na | nA

na = LWO- (no frame markings, not a carrier)

na = LWO- (no frame markings, not a carrier)

Na = LWO+ (no frame markings, but IS a carrier)

nA = LWO+ (HAS frame markings, and IS a carrier)

Heres the break down of a LWO+ bred to a LWO+

Na | NA

na | nA

na = LWO- (no frame markings, not a carrier)

Na = LWO+ (no frame markings, but IS a carrier)

nA = LWO+ (HAS frame markings, and IS a carrier)

NA = LWO foal (Foal has two LWO genes making it homozygous. This foal will die!)

So in a nut shell, your boy is a "Na" making him a carrier. He can produce some very loud, gorgeous foals for you! Congrats!

 

[ohmt]

Thank you for posting the pictures again Songcatcher