mini andalusian?

[rabbitsfizz]

The idea of breeding Ponies this way is foreign to me as we have so very many ponies here I just do not understand why you would risk this.

Would it not be cheaper and so much easier to just come her, buy up a container of very good, very cheap, Welsh, Dartmoor or New Forest ponies and take them home??

This is what the people all did at the very beginnings of Miniature Horse- came over, bought a container load of Shetland foals and took them home.

Again and again.

Look where they are 30 years later!!

Breeding as you are you get one foal a year.

I am not sure how many were in the container but I am sure it was more than one!!

I am really glad you came on here and have stated your case so well, but I am afraid I have to stand by what I have said.

This is not a cross I would ever do, I do not see the point (as I stated, it is harder for me as I am knee deep in really good 12 hand ponies!!)

I would not take the risk, even accepting that every foaling carries a risk.

My broodmares are never confined either- I think you may have got the wrong idea about Mini breeders, but it is easy enough to do, I know.

I really do not think any criticism was implied of Sissy's page- I went there and I too assumed the mare was dead but I thought nothing was wrong with that, I think the page is moving and well presented.

:

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Nevermind to the person who owns the pony and foal in question.. I am sorry you had to come here and "defend" your case

 

[mini me sc]

That`s okay jane.

The purebred Andalusian is an exspensive horse. I do the cross for the market of Half Andalusians. As I said, I see too many kids, "over horsed", meaning they are put on horses Way to big for them to fully enjoy!

A child should be able to have a horse their size so they can bridle, saddle or harness by themselves, with adult super vision of course.

The people that bought this years mini andy, was an older couple who have always wanted an andalusian but couldn`t afford a purebred and also didn`t want a BIG partbred. Not everone wants welshes or shetlands or the reg. mini`s. I also breed Azteca`s (QH or paint cross), Spotted sport horse, Hispano-Arab ( Arabian cross) and draft crosses, along with my purebreds. The prices are from $1500 to $25000.

Breeding is not a hbby for me. We have NO off farm income so I have to be very selective in what and how I breed. I can not afford to have birthing problems or anything as that takes away from our income. So, I MUST be very careful. Right now with the price of cattle, the high cost of fual, low cost of grain bushels and the lack of hay due to drought, our horse operation is putting more into the farm then the mixed farming. We can not afford to work off farm as the work has to get done and with only the young one at home it is only bernie and I doing all the work. We crop, hay and pasture 1440acres (9 quarter sections), not much but a lot for only 2 operators.

I wsih all my horses where the size of these crosses until I was on their backs! Or after they where harnessed and hitched. When Lumy ( luminata) stands near Valvet it is the sight! She can walk right under her and not lower her head. I love it..and Lumi doesn`t get wet in the rain.

Sorry, it is a Cross bred. If it isn`t, what would it be? The object of this breeding is to produce half andalusians ( shown at the Andalusian shows) for small adults and children. I have a market for the ones 13-14 hands ( which I get from my Arabian mares) and under 12 hands, with I get form my "mini" mares. Mini-me, I have no idea as to how big she will or will not get. That is why she is still with us. She would be sold if I could gaurantee she would be over 13 hands, and she would be sold if I could gaurantee she`d be under 12. Right now, she is my son`s project. he is training her. She lets him pick up her feet and she "drives" for him. He doesn`t use rains, touchs her right "butt check" and says left and she goes left, same with the left check and right. Whoa is whoa, stop , don`t move. The kneeling is a bit harder but they are coming around. He uses no ropes nor has he ever had a halter on her. I`ve haltered her and have had her tied up for a few hours but that is it. When and IF we sell her she will make the best pony that has the "horse" gait as well, interestingly, she has a very fast walk or single foot. As far as I know both the Andy and the mini`s are not "gaited" horses but troters. The cross, along with my QH, Paint, Draft also seem to have this very fast "pace".

 

[HGFarm]

I agree with Rabbitz- sorry. There are too many NICE medium sized ponies to cross to get good kids horses- and other breeds like Caspians, small Arabians, QH, etc... to cross rather than using Minis, which are so extremely small. And I have been breeding all sizes of horses for over 30 years

 

[Shari]

I have a friend that is breeding some very beautiful and well temperament "sport ponies" and has for a number of years. They run from 12 to 14 hands tall. However, she does not use miniature horses at all, as there is no need too.

There is also the option of getting horses the kids will never out grow. Fjords, Haflingers, Fells, Dartmoors, Welsh, Connemara's and even Icelandic's, though the later is gaited, to name a few. All also very beautiful in their own ways.

Many compeat in driving, hunter jumper, cross country...just do about anything kids and adults might want to do. They are also very hardy with little foaling problems.

There are many ways to do things.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I just want to say that although I would never personally try this with a mini mare, I find it absolutely amazing that you have successfully managed it. I know that all breeds have come from somewhere and many different experiments. Best of luck on your future crosses, and that all births go accordingly.

Just a question...is there a reason why the foals turn out the way they do when the mare is small versus a smaller stud?

 

[mondak]

Again I have to say that without these wonderful cross breeders that are willing to do crosses otherwise looked down upon there would be NO miniature breed. Yes, Rabbitfrizz, people did bring out sheltlands to downsize the mini lines, but what do ou think they breed them too??? If all they did was breed down the shetland line, wouldn't the mini be nothing more than a bred down shetland which would mean that there would be no need for registries like AMHA and AMHR because they all, in essence, could be registered with the ASPC...But that, as we all know, is not the case. There is a division between the two breeds because the miniature horse is the result of a CROSS between shetlands and larger horses, and over years and years breeders have downsized the breed to what we know today. Another thing to note is that at the founding of this breed there were many complications, countless dwarf horses resulted of the massive inbreeding that took place to scale down the breed, but like birthing issues the industry kept real hush hush about it.

Courtney

 

[whimsical]

I have to say I applaud you coming on here to tell about your farm and about the crosses. I think it is interesting and may one day be widespread. You certainly sound to be well educated and well though out in your breeding program. Although I agree that the smaller minis (28-32") probably would increase your risk of birthing problems, I don't think that is what you are doing.

Again, I appreciate you coming to share your experience and point of view.

 

[Minimor]

I for one have enjoyed "meeting" you here mini-me, & I've enjoyed hearing about your breeding program. I've always admired the Andalusians & would have liked to try a Morgan Andalusian cross. I have thought about a Mini/Morgan cross, but I'd be using a Morgan mare/Mini stallion which would probably result in a taller pony?

No criticism from me!

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Random question... if you were trying to breed a pony by crossing a mini and a horse, why wouldn't you choose Andalusian mares and a mini stallion?

 

[mini me sc]

Random question... if you were trying to breed a pony by crossing a mini and a horse, why wouldn't you choose Andalusian mares and a mini stallion?

A half "mini" in utero starts at $1000...and purebred andalusian starts at $5000(minium). Once on the ground a partbred would start at $12-1500 where as a purebred foal (Andalusian) would be from $6-25000. I could not afford to bred a purebred mare to anything BUT a purebred due to the fact I "HAVE" to make a living with the farm. Our farm has NO outside income unless you count outside mares being bred as off farm income! LOL. I rarely breed outside mares anymore.

Also, the foals would get taller then what the height is that I`m marketing for. A mini stud crossed on to a 15 or 16 hand mare would produce, or could produce a 14+ hand pony. I am marketing for the 12 hand range. As I said, to produce smaller mounts for children to show in the Class A Andalusian shows as well as "breed" out the "pony" chopy" gait.

 

[2minis]

on the subject of cross breeding, I've often wondered why no one is breeding either arabs or andys to the larger modern shetlands to get a really nice saddleseat pony. If the andy or arab is 15h, and the modern is one of the larger ones (maybe around 13+), it seems like you could tame down some of that hot hackney blood, and get a gorgeous action and larger bone to make a more rideable pony. Now, I am NOT in anyway a breeder, and I'm sure I will be enlightened by those who are (which is welcomed, by the way- how else do we learn?), as to the portential pros and cons of a cross like this.

 

[Shari]

humm..."pony's choppy gait".

Have yet to experience that with either the Icelandic or Fjords.

My Fjord mare has a long sweeping stride and neither have choppy gaits at all. More on the style of a Warm blood in movement.

 

[Shari]

Majority of the "miniature" horses are pure and simple, Shetland ponies. There is no shame in that.

Most miniature horses are just Original Shetland ponys marketed as Miniature horses. I know my mini's pedigree goes all the way back to Dell Tera and when they brought over Shetland ponies from the Islands.

They were originally small.

To get refinement,, just cross the most refine ones to each other and over the many years, they have become what they are now.

It is a marketing tactic.

Ie ... what would sell better and get more money... calling the same animal....

A.) a Shetland pony....

or

B.) an rare mini horse.

Again I have to say that without these wonderful cross breeders that are willing to do crosses otherwise looked down upon there would be NO miniature breed. Yes, Rabbitfrizz, people did bring out sheltlands to downsize the mini lines, but what do ou think they breed them too??? If all they did was breed down the shetland line, wouldn't the mini be nothing more than a bred down shetland which would mean that there would be no need for registries like AMHA and AMHR because they all, in essence, could be registered with the ASPC...But that, as we all know, is not the case. There is a division between the two breeds because the miniature horse is the result of a CROSS between shetlands and larger horses, and over years and years breeders have downsized the breed to what we know today. Another thing to note is that at the founding of this breed there were many complications, countless dwarf horses resulted of the massive inbreeding that took place to scale down the breed, but like birthing issues the industry kept real hush hush about it.

Courtney

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I crossed my Arab mare with a 33" Mini stallion by natural (but aided) breeding and got a 12.2hh gelding that drove like a full size horse.

I did the cross with a Dartmoor mare and a Welsh sec B mare and got varied heights depending on the background of the horse.

I do not know of any actual documented proof of any "Big Horse" blood in Minis at all- I am happy to be proven wrong but my understanding is that they are selectively bred form small European Shetlands, American Shetlands and some Appies of unknown or unproven blood and of course some Falabellas- whose breeding again is mainly Shetland, but again, bred most selectively.

Miniatures are not yet a breed, they are a height registration, we tend to forget that, I think.

I have to say that I would not use a Mini mare for this project- I do understand and applaud the "homework" you have done and I accept that you have had no problems it is merely that if you wish ot produce a crossbred pony I would have thought there were better and less troublesome potentially, breeds to use.

I also appreciate the fact that this is not a hobby for you- I think we all, myself included- do tend to forget that this can be the case.

PLEASE stick around as your insight is obviously going to be valuable, as well as your experience.