More for those of you who drive...

[MagicTheMini]

Since there is some much knowledge available on this board I figured I should take advantage of it. I don't know if there is anything wrong with my pictures (which there hopefully isn't), but I would like to see what you guys think of my cart set-up. I just started showing this past year and everything went well, and hopefully everything will go better next year. Magic, the mini, is 6 and the first 4 pictures were from his first show. The last picture is from his second show. Here is Magic being tacked up (I know I'm not supposed to rap the traces, i think thats what they are called, and in the next pictures they aren't):

Here he is with weight in the cart:

and here he is in the show ring troting:

I now know that I am not supposed to tack him up in his halter. I have another question, Is it really bad to lead your horse while it is hitched (while in the bridle)? I was at a show recently (not a mini show) and was harshly (and rudely) corrected for leading Magic while he was hooked to the cart. Thanks in advance! Lindsey (Sorry the pictures are so big, my computer won't let me resize them...)

 

[TN Belle]

I am in no ways an expert, I myself have only been driving a couple of years.

I don't know about the not hitching in a halter thing. 99% of the time, I have to hitch by myself, so the he stays in his halter, tied to a post until I have everything attatched but the bridle itself. Once I get to that point, I slip the halter off his nose, but then allow it to slide down his neck so that he is not tied up by the bit. You don't want to ever tie a horse by the bit, despite what western movies show. Once I am ready to go, I unbuckle the halter around his neck, and off we go.

Like I mentioned, I am usually alone and lead my horse all the time fully hitched when I can't have a header and am unsure of his reactions. However, I am usually ground driving beside him, not really at his head due to the way reins go through the harness, but if he really acts up, a can step to his head fast. I think it was rude of that person to criticize you without offering advice or a solution. This spring I was in my first driving accident. Neither of us was hurt, just shaken up, and embarassed because it was in front of a huge crowd at the state horse fair. I was told by someone that if I can't control my horse in public, then maybe I shouldn't at all. That hurt. No one can predict how an animal with a mind of its own will react, despite our best training and practice. Rest assured, I was told many more times how well I handled the situation and that you must get back on and not quit.

I think your setup looks good, just don't ever wrap the traces, as you have already fixed, but in case you weren't told why---The horse pulls with his shoulders, so the tree moves with them to prevent excessive rubbing. When you wrap them, you restrict that movement and make it harder for the horse. I have been the ring steward at many shows and have heard numerous times by the judges that it is a very big no-no. If you have to, punch more holes in them to shorten them up and rather than cutting off the excess, push them to the side between the straps that keep the tree from going all the way around.

 

[nootka]

One thing I notice, and I am far from an expert (maybe someone will correct me, also), is that it appears your horse is hitched too closely to the cart.

I think the point of the shaft comes out too far ahead of his shoulder, and he is too close to the cart, further restricting his motion.

In the first photo, the traces wrap over and around the outside of the shaft, and then under and hitch to the singletree (is that what it is called?). I don't think this is a good idea, as again, that singletree moves w/the horses' shoulder and the traces should run right back to it from his chest/breast strap.

The third picture is pretty blurry, but I get a feeling from his body language that something is disturbing him, or maybe it was just a moment in time that didn't translate the true situation.

Pictures can be like that. In any case, I am NO expert, just some things I THINK I see, and I could very well be wrong.

There are some excellent teachers here, and they will likely come look and help.

Liz M.

 

[Chynagurl8]

Also not an expert, but here's my 2 cents:

In the first picture the shafts are too far forward, they should line up with the point of their shoulder. You should also have a tab or piece that holds the strap of your breastcollar to the backpad so it is not in their neck. Last thing is that your check is too loose to do any good, it is just flapping in the third picture, kind of defeats the purpose.

This is my opinion and I am far from an expert.

 

[Relic]

l know nothing about driving but l feel for me the cart is to close to his butt for comfort.

 

[MiniHGal]

ok...I wasn't going to post, but I have decided that I'd rather putter about on the Forum than doing my papers! So, here I am...

It is a MAJOR safety issue on bridling first. Not saying that all horses will or can get in a wreck because of this...but I have heard of some especially nasty accidents that occured because of the bridle not being on with the cart on. The best way to harness up if you are alone and tying the horse, is to have a slightly too large halter or crossties and a neck collar. Or, and this is what I do with my big horses, hitch them free--this requires a well-trained horse, but allows you to hitch without worrying about tying and problems associated with that. When you have the harness on, put on the bridle and attach the reins--everything is on. Then, you put the halter over the bridle and reins(or leave the collar on), and hitch. The reason this is such a big issue is this: if your horse spooks while you are putting on the bridle, if the cart is not on...not such a big deal, yes you can have a loose horse. But if the cart is already on and you can't hang on to the horse(and it happens!), then you have a major problem on your hands--loose horse with missile attached. Serious damage to all involved usually. Also, if your horse spooks while putting on the bridle with the cart on, you might get caught by the shaft if your horse lunges forward. Putting on the bridle before the cart reduces the amount of time you spend at their head, and lessens the chance of a spooked horse. And also, never, please never, take off the bridle before the cart, your horse is likely to be spooked by the sudden appearance of the cart behind him or her, or something that is passing by or whatever. Without cart, not a big deal, with cart, BIG deal. There is a reason one of ADS's cardinal rules is "Thou shalt not hitch without bridle on and reins attached". LOL I am not picking on anyone, just trying to emphasize this point--I don't want anyone to get hurt or get eliminated at a show(mostly ADS and ADS rule shows).

Ok onto the rest....kudos to you for having a correctly placed breastcollar! As mentioned, no trace wrapping(but you already figured that out!) and the trace should be let out one more hole(the last one you have left I think), or lengthened...whatever you have to do to put the shaft tip at the point of his shoulder. The cart looks pretty well balanced and he looks happy(well in the first two, LOL). Personal preference here...but I'd like to see breeching...

but thats just me...You do not need a breastcollar strap tab or hook(that holds the strap to the waterhook on the saddle), that is mainly show ring style, though it is certainly fine to do. However, most harnesses(and all the big horse harnesses I have seen) do not have that tab, unless it is some kind of pairs breastcollar harness.

As far as leading with the bridle...mmm...it is preferred that you are either in the cart or that you grounddrive from the side. That way the horse can't knock you down or spook and get away from the person holding the reins(you). Another safety thing. In fact, most ADS whips recommend that you don't ground drive with the cart attached in case the horse takes off and yanks the reins out of your hands, turning what could have been a small runaway into a major wreck. However, if you really feel that the horse is going to take off and you will not be able to stop it, you should get out of the cart...and preferably unhitch then and there. So, that might have been why you were told off....and I think the person should have explained why...but now you know!

Have fun driving--its a great thing to do!!

 

[MagicTheMini]

THANKS for the replies... I believe in the last picture something was bothering him, although I don't know what it was. He is still learning that other horses pull cart, he doesn't get that they are doing the same thing as him. He is my only mini and the only one that drives. People in the show ring also make a lot of noise which scares him. He still needs more exposure, which will come with time. Back to the horse and cart...I usually hitch him loose, but I'm in my backyard, at the show I didn't feel safe doing that. Now I always bridle before I attatch the cart, I just didn't know before.

How far should he be from the cart? I never feel right because the traces always come loose when we stop or slow down.

Regarding breeching--I ALWAYS use it at home. I don't know why no one uses it at shows. Magic doesn't like how the cart moves around without it. This was my first year showing and I tried to do what everyone else did, but I think next year I will show with the breeching. I think with the breeching he will settle better.

About the sidecheck--another show thing. At home I never use it and I drive in and open bridle. Since I don't use it and don't need it (except by requirement) I keep it as loose as possible. Thanks for all the replies! More are always welcome (and thanks in advance for those)! Lindsey (and Magic)

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Well, I was going to say well done the first correctly adjusted checkrein (if you can have such a thing) I have seen!! The horse is pulling from the saddle, though, and this is not good. The shafts should not be forward of the shoulder, and, in the very first picture, the cart looks badly tilted back and, in subsequent pictures, just a wee bitty too high in the tugs- this is where all my harnesses having reciprocating (sliding) tugs comes in handy- I can have odd holes and even tugs!!

I harness up with a halter over the bridle, harness completely and then put to, I am always on my own, too, so I teach the horse to back in, which is another No-No according to the purists. If you have a team around, all these rules are fine, otherwise you improvise but keep safety, always, FIRST. At NO time should the horse be standing, hitched up, with nothing on it's head!!! Well, yes, I have done it, but I'm an idiot!!

Ignore all the bi*ching and enjoy your showing- there is nothing in the rules, by the way that says you cannot cut the blinders right down- I would loveto test the limits on that one!!! There is nothing that says the checkrein has to be tight, only present- once again, I would love to test the definition of "check rein"!! But I'm like that!

A wee bit of history here:-

The checkrein was devised as a means of preventing a horse from putting it's head down below the line of the shaft, so it would not wrap it's reins around the shaft, or the centre pole, nothing more. It has NOTHING to do with eating grass or head set, and, by using it to so do you are gaining nothing more than an artificial head set. You will note this horse, with a natural head set, has no need of a martingale!!

Blinders were first used on RIDING horses to render them quieter still for nervous ladies to ride for an example see the woodcuts accompanying Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales". They were later employed on driving horses as the roads became better and carriages fast enough to employ four horses actually going faster than a walk. As soon as the leaders were being driven, as opposed to led they needed a means of preventing the rein rubbing the wheelers eyes. Also the horse was the only means of transport- thus horses we would not entertain driving today were used in harness, nervous horses are rendered more handleable by being half "blind" thus Blinders. They were not devised to prevent the horse seeing the cart, although they were used for that purpose when the carts went faster and warmer blooded animals were used in them. They are hardly ever used in any of the Eastern European countries still using horses as transport.

 

[Chynagurl8]

.You do not need a breastcollar strap tab or hook(that holds the strap to the waterhook on the saddle), that is mainly show ring style, though it is certainly fine to do.

Not to start anything but all of the big show (and yes you did say typical of show ring) horses that I see around here, Saddlebreds and Hackney ponies, have a strap tab, it keeps it off of their neck, so it doesn't inhibit their neck set. But that being said, They have much more upright headsets. This is just my observation and what trainers have always told me, granted this is all show ring stuff, so there is bound to be differences in ADS compared to show.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Some very well-stated and correct advice and information has already been given! (I especially enjoyed the history, and can see the point of the 'original' thinking on the issue, Rabbit.) On my own horses, I always start in an open bridle, and just now, am thinking of ordering a new crownpiece, sans blinders, for my big B mare(whom I have no intention of showing.) She seems like one who might 'go' in an open bridle at all times.

Agree that the breast collar is correctly positioned; I might suggest a pad for it, when driving around home, just because it is pretty narrow, and should be more comfortable for the horse with padding/a wider weight-bearing surface. Agree that the tug loops might need to be lowered one hole, so that the cart isn't so "tipped back" in position, and the shafts are nearer level along the horse's sides-and, that the traces may need to be lengthened(and yes, no wrapping), so that the shaft tips lie at just about the point of the horse's shoulder--and that the horse should NOT be pulling off the harness saddle, something which too often ends up the case when everything is not properly adjusted. I, too, would MUCH prefer(properly adjusted!) breeching-this "show ring tradition" of NOT using breeching is for the birds, IMO! Breeching is your only 'brakes' (at least in a two wheeled cart without brakes); when it isn't present, the horse HAS to stop the vehicle and its passenger(s) via the tug loops, and therefore, the saddle-which is not particularly comfortable for the horse(even thimbles, if in use, work off the saddle). Agree with the statements about when to put on and remove the bridle, the whys and hows of standing to hitch, and the reasons why it really isn't a good idea to lead a hitched horse by the bridle.

I think you could take just a BIT of the (floppy)slack out of the side check, and still not restrict the horse in any appreciable way-like it or no, in the mini breed show ring over here, a check IS REQUIRED, so if you're going to show, it has to be used. One thing I noticed in the middle, standing photo, is that the cheekpiece of the bridle seem to have 'fallen' way back, allowing the blinders to stand out away from and 'behind' their proper position. Looks like the browband might be overlong, allowing this-or, perhaps the cheekpieces have 'slid back', and the keeper for the noseband is 'holding' them back too far? Correct fit of the bridle seems to be a real issue with a lot of mini harness, in my observation-frequently, the rest of the harness will fit adequately, but the bridle....not so well.

Overall, you are on the right track, and wise to ask for experienced opinions. Happy Driving!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree about the blinkers but there should be an adjustment where it joins the headpiece that should be able to be shortened- have a look. The browband is too big, and it does not set off his pretty head at all- I would throw away the check that came with the harness and make yourself up one out of white cord, so it blends in with the horses colour better, then you can do what you like- I would stop at throwing it away myself, and get the rules changed, but there you go!! The blinkers are too big- is it possible that the whole bridle is a wee bit too big?? Would it be possible to borrow one a size smaller and try it on??

I agree with Margo about the padding, but overall the rig looks very very smart and he does look happy to be working, mostly!!

 

[MagicTheMini]

Thanks again for all the replies! I do agree that the harness fits properly, but the bridle does not. Magic is "B" sized and this is an "A" sized harness, but the bridle was way too big for him. I had to punch holes for it to fit and there was so much excess that I cut it off. I did this before I knew that you needed the top part to adjust the set of the blinders, so I cannot adjust them up or down (although I don't think that was the problem). I can adjust the little part between his ears. I will have to check that out tonight and see where it is set. The browband that came with the bridle was way too short, so I too the one off my arabs headstall. Yes, it is soo long. I will find one that fits better. Regarding the check rein-- at home he doesn't carry his head so high, so it is no as loose (but still loose). I think I will look into some white cord to "blend" it better. I do wish I just didn't have to have it.

About the tipping of the cart--In the tacking up picture he is standing on relatively level ground and the holdy-things for the shafts (I don't know what they are called) are on the last hole. I really don't like how my cart tips and no one elses does. Do you think I might need bigger wheels? These are 20" and Magic is about 36"? I was (and still am) looking for 24" wheels, but they are hard to find and expensive. Thanks again for the replies (and for the history Rabbitsfizz. I love reading your posts!) Lindsey

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Bigger wheels would be brilliant as the cart is just a tiny bit off balance. I have to say I am SO impressed by your attention to detail, I hope so much you do well with him, the whole setup really looks good. I wish I had a neat little cart like that- the only way I am going to get what I want is have someone make it for me!!

 

[Sandee]

I show minis driving but I'm no expert either. However, the hints about letting your traces out another hole looks like that should be right. The shafts should not extend beyond his shoulder. I'm concerned that you say they fall off when you stop. There should be a hole that a strap or piece of leather goes into to hold the traces in place.

No one I've ever met in showing (AMHA/AMHR not carriage)over a year now has used any type of device to attach the neck strap of the trace /chest strap to any part of the saddle. Some drivers use the saddle pads others don't at a show. If you didn't ever use a pad I would think the saddle might chaf him and make him uncomfortable. Some even use pads under the chest strap but not usually at a show.

As to the breeching, I went through the same thing as you. This one would say absolutely and the next person would say no. Well, breeching is never used at a show because the ground is usually level and easy to pull on and the judge can "see" your horse better. After all what the judge thinks is what matters if you expect to win. They would not necessarily disqualify you for being different but often the "eye appeal" of your "turn out" may be the thing that puts you above or below another driver.

The breeching and larger wheels are things you would need for cross country driving. I have a cart with larger wheels and use it for parades. The smaller wheels and smaller show carts are necessary if you do any obstacle classes.

 

[lucyem]

I was trained to drive big horses and am starting to learn the ins and outs of mini driving. I was always taught to bridle first and then hitch the cart. Unhitch cart and then remove bridle. Many horses never see the cart and if they suddenly see this hing attached they could freak. I was also taught to not tighten the girth part of the harness like you would tighten a saddle girth. As far as leading a horse in cart I was never told not to lead by the head. Sometimes on the trail I have to. But as for show etiquette, I do not know.

 

[MagicTheMini]

Thanks everyone! I deffinately will get the larger wheels. How far should he be from the cart? When I hitch him now I make sure the shafts are at the point of his shoulder, but how far should the cart be from him? The shafts are 48" and Magic wears a 48" blanket. Do I maybe need longer shafts? Tomorrow I will try to hitch him and take a current picture of where the cart is and how far it is from him. Thanks again! Lindsey

 

[smlotsocats]

Just a question, without a breeching or thimbles, how are you getting this whole thing stopped not to mention running the cart up his butt? I realize this is a show ring, nice and flat but if you were to go out on the trails and go down a hill???? Maybe I'm not seeing it in the pictures but this is why your cart is moving forward and backwards all over the horse.

 

[Sandee]

The 48"blanket and 48" shafts have no relation to each other. The blanket measurement (as you probably know) is curved around half of the horse (middle of chest to tail). If you check some of the cart sites out you will see that (for instance Jerald) makes 46" and 49" shafts for minis. But they say the 46" is for small 27" and under horses (don't know where they got the idea a horse that small should be pulling a cart). So your 48" shafts should be fine unless your guy is really big which he doesn't look to be. I drive a 30" and a 35" on the same cart.

And just a word on bridleing before you hook up the cart. I too have to do the work by myself and I have done just what someone else said: hook up then bridle. However, my gentle sweet old man (17 yr old) can become a bear sometimes when it comes to the bit and I have had to actually wrestle him to get it on once. Therefore, I now remember that incident that could have been much worse and now I bridle, put the halter around his neck and tie him, then hook up the cart.

 

[Chamomile]

I just wanted to jump on here and say that I absolutely LOVE your little horse!! He is gorgeous and he looks so nice driving! You guys should really do well

You got lots of great advice on here, so I won't blab on and on! You asked how far he should be from the cart... just make sure the shafts are at his point of shoulder and he will be the correct length from the cart. I have driven all sizes of horses in 48" shafts and been just fine... You guys look to be doing great!! Good luck in the future

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Oh and in the meantime you can make false breeching (Not for the showring) by tightly wrapping a strap round the shafts approx ten inches clear of his rump at it's longest- ie place a stick across the shafts resting on his rump. Ten inches back from this wrap the strap around one shaft, across shafts, back and buckle tight. As I said you do need a breeching "eye" through which the breeching strap threads and is buckled.