More group driving adventures

[Marsha Cassada]

I'm going back to driving alone, I think. This group driving is very stressful.

Today a driver brought her young dog; she wanted Mocha to begin going with her in the cart, as Mocha is a Vizula and needs lots of excercise. Everything started out fine. Dogs and horses were all fine (My Buddy always goes with me). Dusty, who is very dog agressive, was fine with Mocha. Perfect area to try this--rural roads with zero-little traffic. Mocha got rather close under the horses a few times but seemed to figure it out. I was ponying Dapper Dan behind the cart. This was the first time I've done that, but I felt Dusty was proficient enough now.

About 2 miles into the drive, Mocha decided to run under her owner's horse, Pharaoh. Pharaoh is 16 and has a magnificent temperament. Pharaoh and the cart went over the dog (not the wheels).It startled Pharaoh, of course, and he did a sideways leap. This threw the driver into a ditch (out of her EE cart). The cart did not tip over, thank goodness, or things could have been worse. Pharoah trotted on with the empty cart, very calmly, out into a field. He merely circled around, came to a nice halt and waited for someone to take his bridle.

Meanwhile, the driver picked herself out of the ditch, fortunately just shaken up, dirty and a little bruised, and held the horse of the other driver who went to fetch Pharaoh. Mocha jumped into the empty cart that was being held by the driver thrown into the ditch. I was afraid the silly dog would cause THAT horse to bolt, and the lady wouldn't be able to hold him, so I tapped Mocha with my whip and told her to get out of the cart. (Owner told her to get out first and she didnt' mind so that is when I tapped her with my whip. She jumped out of the cart and I said "good girl!)

Pharoah comes back, calm as pie, wondering what all the excitement is. We look around and Mocha has run off.

Mocha has totally lost her head. We tried to pursue her across wheat stubble but after half a mile of that in a cart, we turned back and headed for home to get a pickup. We finally got the hroses home then went to search for Mocha.

Mocha sees us, hears her name, is within 6 feet of us, and turns to run some more. She probably covered 10 miles or more, with us driving the roads, cutting across wheat fields and walking on foot. Three times she saw us, heard us, and kept running. My husband came to help, so we had 3 vehicles searching for her. It got so hot, we finally gave up for the afternoon and will try again this evening. HOpefully she will have calmed down enough that she will come to her owner.

I blame myself for touching her with the whip. She is not my dog and I had no right to touch her. I was just worried about her setting another horse off and didn't think it through. My sister blames herself because it was her idea to bring the young dog. The owner blames herself because she didn't think about Mocha needing reassurance after the cart went over her. We speculate she ran away because she thought she was in trouble.

What a day! We are going back to search this evening and have left notes on all the farm gates in the area, called the radio and police.

When I drive alone I only have calm, uneventful drives. I'm not sure I have the stamina for group drives.

Constructive criticism only, please! "By the Book" we did lots of no-nos. Actually all our horses behaved beautifully. It was the dog that was the joker in the deck--poor Mocha!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I blame myself for touching her with the whip. She is not my dog and I had no right to touch her. I was just worried about her setting another horse off and didn't think it through. My sister blames herself because it was her idea to bring the young dog. The owner blames herself because she didn't think about Mocha needing reassurance after the cart went over her.
...Constructive criticism only, please!

Constructive criticism only, hmm? I can do that.

Next time, leash the dog.

Seriously, a young dog needs just as much training in their role around a cart as a young horse does. Remember how Kody took off and dumped me out of the sled last winter? That was because Mom didn't want to go back and put the dog in the house so our young Sheltie (a herding dog, hello?!) was out there and when Kody got trotting, she started barking and running with him. She meant no harm but he was already in a mood and decided to race her and it went rapidly downhill from there.

After I'd found my horse, untangled him from the fenceline and the sled and walked the 1/4 mile home, I quiety but firmly told my mother "Next time, the dog goes in the house."

The only fault I see is with the person who failed to consider the dog's safety and needs at the beginning of the drive. You did the right thing getting her out of that cart and it sounds like you did it in a gentle, non-intimidating manner. If she's a young dog of a high-energy, high-exercise, roaming-type breed it's not surprising she went zooming off over hill and dale when she got spooked. Hopefully she'll come home safe and you guys can try to find a better way of mixing dogs and horses.

Leia

 

[CZP1]

Things happen, how is the dog supposed to get used to driving with the horses? I am glad that no one was hurt. I think you did the right thing and I hope that the dog will be found. Don't be yourselves up, hard not to though I am sure.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Newbie driver opinion here but many years experience training dogs and it sounds like you did the best you could given the circumstances, thank goodness you are all ok and the horses are fine too.

It is a shame the dog ran off, but you had no control over that. It is a risk owners take when they allow their dogs to run free that they will have a problem controlling the dog without a leash. Most states have leash laws.. Tapping the dog to get it out of the cart did not make the dog run away so don't beat yourself up about that. You may have stopped a worse horse wreck than the first one by getting the dog out of the cart. I would rather try to catch a loose dog than a horse running away dragging a wrecked cart.

I also would never allow one of my dogs to follow the cart and run at large nor would I want to drive with someone trying to drive and train and exercise a young dog in a group of horses. I have seen dogs take off after spooked up deer and foxes etc. Anything can happen. I once knew a guy with the coolest dog in town. It would jump and load up behind his riding horse sitting behind the saddle. He allowed the dog to follow us on a ride and it got hit by a car and killed. It bummed everybody out.

Vizla's is one of my favorite breeds of dogs, but they are a hunting breed with lots of energy and stamina. If you are still on the dog search team and see the dog, take a low stance or sit on the ground to call the dog. Carry hotdogs or hamburgers as food rewards. Have the owner call the dog and then lay down on the ground, become something to investigate and check out. Hopefully the dog will come to somebody, but a young dog without decent recall training will be hard to catch. I'd be worried sick if it were my dog... Best wishes on finding the dog. Remember to praise the dog if you catch it... Hard to remember to do that part after walking miles chasing down a runaway, but do remember to praise and treat the caught dog like the best dog on earth...

After hearing your story I personally wouldn't drive with anybody taking along a young romping dog, too much distraction for both dogs and horses. Thanks for sharing, a learning experience to put in my head to remember.

PS, I have been training dogs most of my life, I would have given the dog a tap with the whip to get it out of the cart...You were protecting someone from another wreck... Instinct took over. Don't blame yourself about the dog running away, avoiding a second wreck, quick thinking... thanks again for sharing

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My husband got home from work about 2 am. He was sitting quietly on the porch with a wind-down drink and Mocha appeared. He came in to wake me to tell me, and she was gone again. We set out food and water, and about 3:30 I heard lapping and crunching. Called her owner who threw on clothes and rushed out. Mocha recognized her and gladly jumped into the pickup and was taken home. Hurrah!

It is pretty amazing that she found her way to our house, as she had never been here before yesterday.

 

[RhineStone]

Yes, you can use a leash, but DON'T tie the dog to the cart. The owner can sit on the leash. In a Carriage Dog class, the dog is not to interfere with the driver.

We took our Yorkie in our woods with us because she likes riding on the carriage, and that silly dog jumped off the marathon vehicle BETWEEN THE SHAFTS! Chad thought he was going to hit her with a wheel or a horse heel, but she made it out. She hasn't done that since, though. I think it scared the cr-- out of her!

I know the EE fanatics are going to hate me and call me the "EE Nazi", but I find it interesting that the driver was launched without tipping over. Hmm.

 

[RhineStone]

In rereading the post, I would also say that the cart should not have been empty for the dog to jump in. Anytime a horse is put to a cart, ADS suggests that there be a knowledgable driver in the cart with reins in hand. Heading the horse from the ground is not acceptable, and quite a few years ago, Craig Kellogg quietly asked us not to do that at a show, as the header won't be able to hold a hitched horse the way you can with a riding horse. That horse will jump forward and knock over the header with the cart. See stories on my website regarding that.

Myrna

 

[Marsha Cassada]

In rereading the post, I would also say that the cart should not have been empty for the dog to jump in. Anytime a horse is put to a cart, ADS suggests that there be a knowledgable driver in the cart with reins in hand. Heading the horse from the ground is not acceptable, and quite a few years ago, Craig Kellogg quietly asked us not to do that at a show, as the header won't be able to hold a hitched horse the way you can with a riding horse. That horse will jump forward and knock over the header with the cart. See stories on my website regarding that.

Myrna

This is why I wanted to get the dog out of the driverless cart. The lady who was ditched was holding the bridle of that horse and she was shaken up--not good if she had had to hold a bolting horse.

Unfortunately, the people I drive with are mainly from the yee-haw horse event school and are not interested in finesse or the reasoning behind good rules.

She had a bicycle leash for the dog--not sure why she didn't use it.

I also thought it was interesting that the EE cart did not tip over. I think it is because the horse was calm. She was busy looking at the dog and did not have the reflex to brace herself. I think that will come with experience; I try to lead the group up and down gentle ditches and terraces so she will get the feel of her cart (she is a new driver).

I think the metal EE carts have such a high center of gravity, which makes them vulnerable. My Jerald is very low and rather wide. (She did not want a cart like mine as she feared it was too heavy for her to lift.)

Anyway, alls well that ends well and we have added it to our store of survived knowledge.

 

[RhineStone]

What is a bicycle leash?

 

[RhineStone]

Unfortunately, the people I drive with are mainly from the yee-haw horse event school and are not interested in finesse or the reasoning behind good rules.

You're right that is unfortunate. We see this a lot with recreational riders/drivers. ADS is trying to address some of these concerns with some Recreational Drive Standards which are included in the ADS Rulebook. The whole thing is about practices that involve safety.

There is also a short one-page handout on my website that addresses basic safety practices that you can share with your driving group friends.

The most recent ADS Whip magazine had an article about a Suzy Stafford clinic that the Northwoods Harness Club sponsored. In it, the author explains that the majority of the club does not show, but does drive recreationally. She goes on to say how beneficial it is to the horse for the driver to learn how to balance the horse, find out if his bit is comfortable, and be more fun to drive if the driver's hands were educated. Good driving is not just for show people! (As I'm sure Marsha knows and has indicated.)

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I know all of you EE fanatics are going to hate me and call me the "EE Nazi", but I find it interesting that the driver was launched without tipping over. Hmm.

No, I found that interesting too. That's why I use non-skid placemat stuff under my rump! New drivers face a steep learning curve and unfortunately usually learn by having a few accidents or "oopsie moments" of their own. *sigh* I bet next time she'll brace herself! I hope she's not too stiff and sore this morning and am so glad Mocha was found!

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I honestly cannot see that you did anything wrong at all.

If I am driving on a road, any road at all, there is no way I would take a dog, especially not an untrained, young, bouncy gundog!

Once, and only once, I took my first Dobe out with me riding, it was fine on the bridle path, but to say it was stressful when I had to cross a road is putting it mildly, I was so uptight that the dog would run into the road I was a mess and had to come home.

So, now, I would not dream of taking any of my dogs with me when I go out. Supposing you meet another dog. Supposing that dog is not friendly? Problem!

I think the owner got off very lightly- dogs do panic, which is what this one did, and we often cannot see why, and the way she them reacted is typical. I would say she followed the scent of the cart back to your place and then found the food (well done you, good move) Since her panic was past she then was able to recognise her owner.

I think your call on this is a good one- drive alone, that way, if you have a good sensible dog that will go with you with no worries, you have only you to answer to- and no one is going to think that as you do it it is OK to bring their own scatty and unsuitable canine along!

I am very, very glad this tale had a happy ending- at so many points in the story it could have gone really bad, but, again, NONE of that would have been your fault.