RelentlessMinis
Active Member
Thank you very much! That's so nice of you to say.
My personal opinion regarding AMHA/AMHR
- Thread starter RelentlessMinis
- Start date
Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:
Thank you very much! That's so nice of you to say.
RelentlessMinis
Active Member
Wow, that sounds awesome. Thank you very much!
To the OP: great, thoughtful post--it is young people like you who are the hope for the future of the horse industry!
Though it might be considered somewhat OT, and if so, I apologize...I MUST respond to the reply here from Andrea, who "hates"??? QHs.With all due respcet...I wonder if she would use that term after further consideration? I might somewhat understand if all she has seen are the poor, pitiful things you find in most WP and other QH/stock horse breed rail classes nowadays...but to make the blanket statement that she considers that QH are "unathletic"...OR boring,dull, etc...is to me very misguided. Sadly, HUMANS are responsible for many 'issues'w/ QHs...as,I believe, they are similarly w/ nearly every other breed of horse, at least in this country. Even so, there ARE still plenty of QH's that fulfill the standards that launched the breed. Ever ride a GOOD cutting horse? Top quality barrel/pole horse? Trail ride ROUGH country? Have to depend on a horse's level head to keep you safe in dicey situations...for instance,a rattlesnake lying across a narrow trail,no place to dismount, no gun, no way to bypass it?(I have.)The best all-around breed to do any/all those things is a QH THAT IS OF THE TYPE AND CONFORMATION of the 'original' breed standard(NOT some huge, slab-sided, tiny-hoofed product of mistaken breeding'ideals' of today..or some'halter' animal that could pass for a fattened beef steer, and can hardly waddle across the pen!)
Further, I find it sad that anyone who truly is a horseperson would express "hate" for ANY equine breed. I personally have no use for 'hot' horses, but I surely don't 'hate' them. I have seen some that I just felt sorry for, but again, it is generally because of what HUMANS have done/do to them, whether through 'devices', unpleasant(trying to use polite terms here)'training' methods, and even, misguided breeding choices that may produce 'uncharacteristic' or extreme, ways of moving/traveling...all in the name of trying to "WIN".
Although an 'honest' QH/stock type is still my first choice...one of my favorite horses in the WORLD is a lovely registered SHETLAND mare, about 45", who I spied in an online 'for sale' ad some years back in a neighboring state, regretfully didn't buy because she was quite young but 'in foal', and had NO performance training...but I SO admired what I could see in her pics. Fate brought her into my 'circle of view' again fairly recently; it was the first time I was able to see her 'in the flesh', and she is indeed as 'great' as I felt she was! She has BEAUTIFUL movement/action; not extreme, but lovely, high, upheaded, and ground-covering. I would dearly LOVE to own her and train her to drive...NOT for the breed ring, but for the pure pleasure of it...at least for now, while I still have the numbers I have, tht is not to be..but even at my age, I still have hope that it is not an unattainable goal.
Guess my point is...when you genuinely LOVE horses,seems to me there would be no limit to your appreciation of and affection for,them, even those that are not 'to your specific tastes'.
Margo
Though it might be considered somewhat OT, and if so, I apologize...I MUST respond to the reply here from Andrea, who "hates"??? QHs.With all due respcet...I wonder if she would use that term after further consideration? I might somewhat understand if all she has seen are the poor, pitiful things you find in most WP and other QH/stock horse breed rail classes nowadays...but to make the blanket statement that she considers that QH are "unathletic"...OR boring,dull, etc...is to me very misguided. Sadly, HUMANS are responsible for many 'issues'w/ QHs...as,I believe, they are similarly w/ nearly every other breed of horse, at least in this country. Even so, there ARE still plenty of QH's that fulfill the standards that launched the breed. Ever ride a GOOD cutting horse? Top quality barrel/pole horse? Trail ride ROUGH country? Have to depend on a horse's level head to keep you safe in dicey situations...for instance,a rattlesnake lying across a narrow trail,no place to dismount, no gun, no way to bypass it?(I have.)The best all-around breed to do any/all those things is a QH THAT IS OF THE TYPE AND CONFORMATION of the 'original' breed standard(NOT some huge, slab-sided, tiny-hoofed product of mistaken breeding'ideals' of today..or some'halter' animal that could pass for a fattened beef steer, and can hardly waddle across the pen!)
Further, I find it sad that anyone who truly is a horseperson would express "hate" for ANY equine breed. I personally have no use for 'hot' horses, but I surely don't 'hate' them. I have seen some that I just felt sorry for, but again, it is generally because of what HUMANS have done/do to them, whether through 'devices', unpleasant(trying to use polite terms here)'training' methods, and even, misguided breeding choices that may produce 'uncharacteristic' or extreme, ways of moving/traveling...all in the name of trying to "WIN".
Although an 'honest' QH/stock type is still my first choice...one of my favorite horses in the WORLD is a lovely registered SHETLAND mare, about 45", who I spied in an online 'for sale' ad some years back in a neighboring state, regretfully didn't buy because she was quite young but 'in foal', and had NO performance training...but I SO admired what I could see in her pics. Fate brought her into my 'circle of view' again fairly recently; it was the first time I was able to see her 'in the flesh', and she is indeed as 'great' as I felt she was! She has BEAUTIFUL movement/action; not extreme, but lovely, high, upheaded, and ground-covering. I would dearly LOVE to own her and train her to drive...NOT for the breed ring, but for the pure pleasure of it...at least for now, while I still have the numbers I have, tht is not to be..but even at my age, I still have hope that it is not an unattainable goal.
Guess my point is...when you genuinely LOVE horses,seems to me there would be no limit to your appreciation of and affection for,them, even those that are not 'to your specific tastes'.
Margo
Minimor
Well-Known Member
Yes....and that horse was a Morgan! Truly, I would choose a good Morgan over a good QH for any of those things--any day.
Well, variety is the spice of life, Minimor. You'll notice I didn't say that there weren't other breeds that might do some, even all, of the things that I mentioned, did I? I prefer QHs, you prefer Morgans.
I have owned and used QHs, Paint/Pintos, Arabian, Paso Fino, Missouri Foxtrotter, a grade that was almost certainly Morgan or part(and he was a very nice guy, albeit a bit rough at the trot...but then, he'd been 'only' a ranch using, then a trail riding, horse before he came to me),other misc. grades(as a child), before and during having miniatures. Some ended up not suiting what I want/like, but I never 'hated' any of them, nor 'dissed' their breed. I'm happy to agree to disagree; each of us has our own tastes in horses, but that shouldn't mean you hate or even 'greatly dislike' another's BREED.
Margo
I have owned and used QHs, Paint/Pintos, Arabian, Paso Fino, Missouri Foxtrotter, a grade that was almost certainly Morgan or part(and he was a very nice guy, albeit a bit rough at the trot...but then, he'd been 'only' a ranch using, then a trail riding, horse before he came to me),other misc. grades(as a child), before and during having miniatures. Some ended up not suiting what I want/like, but I never 'hated' any of them, nor 'dissed' their breed. I'm happy to agree to disagree; each of us has our own tastes in horses, but that shouldn't mean you hate or even 'greatly dislike' another's BREED.
Margo
disneyhorse
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2002
- Messages
- 5,382
- Reaction score
- 192
Sorry, Margo CT... I must have written that post on a work break or something... It was worded far more strongly than I intended...
I don't feel super "breedist" against animals... I don't believe that all Clydesdales are gentle giants nor all pit bulls viscious dogs. Every horse is an individual for sure!
However, I do truly feel that stock horse shows are NOT my thing... I don't like watching rodeos or stock horse shows. Quarter horses ARE athletic in respects to racing and barrels and cattle events but I don't like the giant divide between the halter animal and the performance animal, and the head-on-the-ground thing seems so bizarre to me. I do NOT like riding a horse with its poll at its withers or lower. At this time I don't feel that the Nationals halter quality mini is unable to do well in performance, whereas a giant QH congress sees such vast vast difference in animals. I can flip through a QH magazine and point out which is a Reiner, which is a halter horse, and which one is WP.
However, there is a difference in minis between those built with substantial bone and more upright, refined type and agree that the Registry should take notice that there are members of all tastes and desires and backgrounds. However, practicality might be difficult. The ASPC shetland has FOUR halter divisions to choose from and judges over time still tend towards a more extreme type.
I do apologize for my wording though.... "Absolutely hate" is way too strong if taken out of overall context! And I type on this tiny iPhone way too often where I can't see what I'm writing
I don't feel super "breedist" against animals... I don't believe that all Clydesdales are gentle giants nor all pit bulls viscious dogs. Every horse is an individual for sure!
However, I do truly feel that stock horse shows are NOT my thing... I don't like watching rodeos or stock horse shows. Quarter horses ARE athletic in respects to racing and barrels and cattle events but I don't like the giant divide between the halter animal and the performance animal, and the head-on-the-ground thing seems so bizarre to me. I do NOT like riding a horse with its poll at its withers or lower. At this time I don't feel that the Nationals halter quality mini is unable to do well in performance, whereas a giant QH congress sees such vast vast difference in animals. I can flip through a QH magazine and point out which is a Reiner, which is a halter horse, and which one is WP.
However, there is a difference in minis between those built with substantial bone and more upright, refined type and agree that the Registry should take notice that there are members of all tastes and desires and backgrounds. However, practicality might be difficult. The ASPC shetland has FOUR halter divisions to choose from and judges over time still tend towards a more extreme type.
I do apologize for my wording though.... "Absolutely hate" is way too strong if taken out of overall context! And I type on this tiny iPhone way too often where I can't see what I'm writing
Andrea, actually, I fully agree with many of the observations you make just above. I'll just say that the 'evolution' of the QH has not gone well for the HORSES, in many instances; a breed whose purpose was to be an 'all-around' western performance/using animal has in MANY ways gone awry, thanks to human 'management'...
I was pretty sure you didn't really mean how your original post came across(to me, at least); you seem to me to be too dedicated a horseperson for that. As someone who still appreciates a REAL QH(harder to find, these days, to be sure), I just couldn't let the characterization pass w/o offering another view! I appreciate your response above; it is what I would have expected from you as that decicated horseperson.
Margo
I was pretty sure you didn't really mean how your original post came across(to me, at least); you seem to me to be too dedicated a horseperson for that. As someone who still appreciates a REAL QH(harder to find, these days, to be sure), I just couldn't let the characterization pass w/o offering another view! I appreciate your response above; it is what I would have expected from you as that decicated horseperson.
Margo
KLM
Well-Known Member
Wow, What an amazing post. And as others have said, clearly wise beyond your years.
I too hate to see a horse that is clearly TERRIFIED of its handler, however I am not opposed to a horse that is a "fire-breathing dragon" in the ring. My young stallion would sleep in his stall at shows with his head in my lap and be asleep outside the ring in the holding area, however the minute he stepped inside the ring LOOKOUT! He turned it on. Not because he was afraid of me or my trainer, but because he LOVES to show. The minute he entered the ring he pranced, reared and tossed his head. Not with an evil look on his face, but pure joy and excitment.
On the other hand, I have a mare whom I have retired from the halter ring because she HATES it with a passion. Very sad for me as I bought her as a halter horse. She loves to show the performance classes such as obstacle and jumping, but enter a plain old boring halter class??? She pins her ears and refuses to do much else. I actually had several friends call me on my cell phone after her halter class at Regionals who watched her bite me in the ring three times caught on camera of the live feed. It was clearly her way of saying that she hated it and asking me to stop.
I think as owners of these amazing horses, we who show for the enjoyment and love our horses. We will do what is right for them. There isn't a breed show out there that SOMEONE isn't doing what is wrong for the horse just because it gives them status. There are QH trainers who are abusive just are there are mini trainers who are abusive. It just goes with the territory of showing in ANY breed. It is our job as these amazing creatures owners to do what is right for them.
Photos are my mare - Happy showing anything BUT halter, and my Stallion who LOVES to show halter!
I too hate to see a horse that is clearly TERRIFIED of its handler, however I am not opposed to a horse that is a "fire-breathing dragon" in the ring. My young stallion would sleep in his stall at shows with his head in my lap and be asleep outside the ring in the holding area, however the minute he stepped inside the ring LOOKOUT! He turned it on. Not because he was afraid of me or my trainer, but because he LOVES to show. The minute he entered the ring he pranced, reared and tossed his head. Not with an evil look on his face, but pure joy and excitment.
On the other hand, I have a mare whom I have retired from the halter ring because she HATES it with a passion. Very sad for me as I bought her as a halter horse. She loves to show the performance classes such as obstacle and jumping, but enter a plain old boring halter class??? She pins her ears and refuses to do much else. I actually had several friends call me on my cell phone after her halter class at Regionals who watched her bite me in the ring three times caught on camera of the live feed. It was clearly her way of saying that she hated it and asking me to stop.
I think as owners of these amazing horses, we who show for the enjoyment and love our horses. We will do what is right for them. There isn't a breed show out there that SOMEONE isn't doing what is wrong for the horse just because it gives them status. There are QH trainers who are abusive just are there are mini trainers who are abusive. It just goes with the territory of showing in ANY breed. It is our job as these amazing creatures owners to do what is right for them.
Photos are my mare - Happy showing anything BUT halter, and my Stallion who LOVES to show halter!
RelentlessMinis
Active Member
Thank you very much!Oh my gosh. Your editorial is awesome and exactly what I see and feel about AMHA. Im 40 years into horses. Retired barrel racer. Also gave it a go in other disciplines like you. Train all my horses myself (except one). Spent years with AQHA, APHA, GRA (wpra) , CSHA and local clubs. I am so disheartned with the abuse I to have witnessed and cheating going on in AOTE. After many years as a AMHA member. Im not renewing 2013. Im done with them. Im going to try R and do more pinto. I want to be around people that are not obsessed with winning at all costs. Thank you for your post
It's neat that other people also share some of the same views that I do.
