Becky
Well-Known Member
I also agree with Laura on this, too. If she's not eating, hyperlipemia becomes a real concern and needs aggressive, immediate treatment.
Last edited by a moderator:
Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:
You are getting quite a list here Parm, so I"ll add to it what I would do and things that would be on my list because she is in pain somewhere:
This would be my last ditch effort before I brought her to the hospital:
1. Ulcers Ulcers Ulcers
Besides Gastroguard or Ulcerguard, You can also use 2 tabs of Tagamet per day. Its a lot cheaper and has worked for me. Also Pepto as a jump start for a couple of days does not hurt.
2. Start dosing Probios daily.
3. Try hand feeding her Dannon or Yoplait Yogurt from a spoon for another jump start
4. Pain, Pain, Pain........I'd be doing something for pain. Not possitive anymore if you can be dosing banamine with an ulcer or not, but maybe someone else on here knows about that.
5. Panacur: Here's a little trick I learned: If she has had teeth issues, and there may be soreness or lesions in the mouth from where points may have caused sores, give her a dose or two of Panacur. Panacur has some amazing healing properties for mouth problems.
6. Is she on supplements for artheritis? I'd be adding that to the list big time. She has not foundered has she?
I had an old horse pass from issues of liver and kidney but it came on him very fast, almost over night. I hope that is not the problem with Cappy.
I think the best idea for you also is to load her up and take her to the hospital if she doesn't turn around soon. I hate that you are going through this. You're in my thoughts.
This would be my last ditch effort before I brought her to the hospital:
1. Ulcers Ulcers Ulcers
Besides Gastroguard or Ulcerguard, You can also use 2 tabs of Tagamet per day. Its a lot cheaper and has worked for me. Also Pepto as a jump start for a couple of days does not hurt.
2. Start dosing Probios daily.
3. Try hand feeding her Dannon or Yoplait Yogurt from a spoon for another jump start
4. Pain, Pain, Pain........I'd be doing something for pain. Not possitive anymore if you can be dosing banamine with an ulcer or not, but maybe someone else on here knows about that.
5. Panacur: Here's a little trick I learned: If she has had teeth issues, and there may be soreness or lesions in the mouth from where points may have caused sores, give her a dose or two of Panacur. Panacur has some amazing healing properties for mouth problems.
6. Is she on supplements for artheritis? I'd be adding that to the list big time. She has not foundered has she?
I had an old horse pass from issues of liver and kidney but it came on him very fast, almost over night. I hope that is not the problem with Cappy.
I think the best idea for you also is to load her up and take her to the hospital if she doesn't turn around soon. I hate that you are going through this. You're in my thoughts.
joylee123
Well-Known Member
[SIZE=12pt]Parmela,[/SIZE]
I have an older mare Klasi. I have had such issues keeping weight on her. Last winter she looked like a walking skeleton and I was stuffing her with mashes made of soaked alfalfa cubes, probios and you name it. I had her teeth done by my vet repeatedly and they told me she had wavey mouth so would have to be done every six months to keep weight on, and so she was done every six months. WELL!
Chesa Henkel turned me on to Carl Mitz!!! I had just had Klasi's teeth done TWO MONTHS before Carl came out. You would not believe what he pulled out of her mouth!!! She looks like a completely different mare now. Fat and sassy, enjoys her food, eats what everyone else does and is now healthy, happy and in foal.
I don't know if that is whats up with your girl, I just thought I'd share my experience.
Best wishes,
Joy
I have an older mare Klasi. I have had such issues keeping weight on her. Last winter she looked like a walking skeleton and I was stuffing her with mashes made of soaked alfalfa cubes, probios and you name it. I had her teeth done by my vet repeatedly and they told me she had wavey mouth so would have to be done every six months to keep weight on, and so she was done every six months. WELL!
Chesa Henkel turned me on to Carl Mitz!!! I had just had Klasi's teeth done TWO MONTHS before Carl came out. You would not believe what he pulled out of her mouth!!! She looks like a completely different mare now. Fat and sassy, enjoys her food, eats what everyone else does and is now healthy, happy and in foal.
I don't know if that is whats up with your girl, I just thought I'd share my experience.
Best wishes,
Joy
Ellen
Well-Known Member
I am so sorry. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
I would suspect ulcers. I guess with all that is going on and the fact she is not eating if she doesn't have them, she will. I agree with the ulcergaurd, but double the dose. By the advice of my vet , "One dose is to prevent, a double is to heal." Secondly I would reccomend GUT. Has the probis, but also an Ulcer prevenative. I agree with Sucralifate and Ritadine, too.
I would worry about worms, Hyperlympia....But with the vet being there and drawing a complete panel, might he have noticed changes? Does anyone know? I know with a terrible ulcer, one that bleeds, it can be seen in bloodwork as can a bad case of worms as it depletes the host of so much. Ugh! I am no help.
One other reccomendation. My vet always reccomends a combo of Sr, and Youth, for this situation and electrolytes.
Now I am rambling. But just trying to think thru everything I have heard him say.
I would suspect ulcers. I guess with all that is going on and the fact she is not eating if she doesn't have them, she will. I agree with the ulcergaurd, but double the dose. By the advice of my vet , "One dose is to prevent, a double is to heal." Secondly I would reccomend GUT. Has the probis, but also an Ulcer prevenative. I agree with Sucralifate and Ritadine, too.
I would worry about worms, Hyperlympia....But with the vet being there and drawing a complete panel, might he have noticed changes? Does anyone know? I know with a terrible ulcer, one that bleeds, it can be seen in bloodwork as can a bad case of worms as it depletes the host of so much. Ugh! I am no help.
One other reccomendation. My vet always reccomends a combo of Sr, and Youth, for this situation and electrolytes.
Now I am rambling. But just trying to think thru everything I have heard him say.
Carolyn R
Well-Known Member
Parmela, I am sending you a PM
Tatonkas Dream
Well-Known Member
I don't have any advice that hasn't been covered but just wanted you to know your in my thoughts and prayers for healing for your little girl
Anyone on here knows how very much you
your four footed children.
Hugs!
Christina
Anyone on here knows how very much you
Hugs!
Christina
Mominis
Well-Known Member
Gosh, so sorry to hear about your mare! It's just awful and so stressful on you, I'm sure. I think you've gotten a lot of great suggestions here. I'd like to toss one more into the ring, how about trying a little Probios and a B12 injection. That has worked for me in the past when I have one go off their feed. You will be in my prayers and I wish you the best of luck with her.
wingnut
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2009
- Messages
- 2,149
- Reaction score
- 138
I just wanted to offer up some {{{{hugs and prayers}}}}. Our hardkeeper girl has had me in tears too trying to figure out how to put and keep weight on her. Her issue ultimately was her mouth/teeth and we're hopeful that we've finally gotten it figured out. I hope you find an answer for her soon!
ruffian
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2002
- Messages
- 3,500
- Reaction score
- 17
I have a mare doing the same thing. My vet did blood work, I had her teeth done, super dewormed, and a full tub of ulcerguard. Vet thinks now it's Pancreatic Enzymatic deficiency. She can't digest her food. Blood test will not show this. Is there undigested food in her manure? Is it soft? Not necessarily runny, but not firm balls. The only test to prove is an "in and out", which typically would need to be done at a vet hospital. He suggested pelleted feed, feeding 4 times a day. Nutrena Safeguard or Life guard with a little Calf Manna added, about 1/2 c per feeding.
My mare is looking a bit better on the pelleted extra feed. I know what you are going through, I wish you and your mare all the best. Good luck.
My mare is looking a bit better on the pelleted extra feed. I know what you are going through, I wish you and your mare all the best. Good luck.
S
StarRidgeAcres
Guest
I'm SO appreciative of all the support and prayers and so is Cappy. My mind is so full right now I probably am not going to say everything I hoped to or answer all the questions that have been asked. But here is where we are right now.
The vet just left. Did the most thorough physical exam that Cappy's had during this experience. I really felt like she took the time to touch her from inside her mouth, all of her joints, a rectal and everything in between. She listened for a long time all over her core on both sides. Her resperations were about 48 which is considerably higher than for a normal horse, not in pain and not battling something. She has a lot of gas for a horse that isn't eating very well. She is not dehydrated at this point. Her breaths sound normal coming into her nose and through her tracea (sp?) but there is very little sound then into her lungs. Almost as if she's not breathing very deeply or deeply enough. Vet gave her a handful of a product call Chops and she ate it. It is a chopped alfalfa/orchard grass mix. She left me with some sample bags and I found a place to get it tomorrow. We are running a full CBC/blood workup, started her on gastroguard and gave her iv banamine. We are also going to try an injectible for her joint pain as she will not eat any feed that has any supplement on it or in it. Adequin I believe it's called. And I'm to try and sneak some corn oil into her feed, but knowing Cappy, she'll sense it and not eat it, but I'll try anything at this point.
The vet had me half-dose the gastroguard but I think i'm actually going to increase it as I don't believe it will hurt her and it may help. Should have bloodwork back by 9am tomorrow.
I'm sure I've left important details out, but again my mind is so full right now.
Thank you all so very much - for the resonses here, the PMs and the emails. And bless you Bonnie
The vet just left. Did the most thorough physical exam that Cappy's had during this experience. I really felt like she took the time to touch her from inside her mouth, all of her joints, a rectal and everything in between. She listened for a long time all over her core on both sides. Her resperations were about 48 which is considerably higher than for a normal horse, not in pain and not battling something. She has a lot of gas for a horse that isn't eating very well. She is not dehydrated at this point. Her breaths sound normal coming into her nose and through her tracea (sp?) but there is very little sound then into her lungs. Almost as if she's not breathing very deeply or deeply enough. Vet gave her a handful of a product call Chops and she ate it. It is a chopped alfalfa/orchard grass mix. She left me with some sample bags and I found a place to get it tomorrow. We are running a full CBC/blood workup, started her on gastroguard and gave her iv banamine. We are also going to try an injectible for her joint pain as she will not eat any feed that has any supplement on it or in it. Adequin I believe it's called. And I'm to try and sneak some corn oil into her feed, but knowing Cappy, she'll sense it and not eat it, but I'll try anything at this point.
The vet had me half-dose the gastroguard but I think i'm actually going to increase it as I don't believe it will hurt her and it may help. Should have bloodwork back by 9am tomorrow.
I'm sure I've left important details out, but again my mind is so full right now.
Thank you all so very much - for the resonses here, the PMs and the emails. And bless you Bonnie
barnbum
Well-Known Member
Just wanted you to know, I'm thinking about you and Cappy. Prayers added for the vet to find the issue and know exactly what to do.
Hang in there--you fabulous horse mama.
Hang in there--you fabulous horse mama.
hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
Oh, Parmela, my heart goes out to you. How well I know the agony of a horse that won't eat!
A couple of years ago my 30+ year old Arab, Spyderman, suddenly went completely off his feed for the first time in his life and wouldn't touch his beet pulp/hay pellet/senior feed mush. He wanted hay but couldn't chew it enough to swallow it and when I brought his real food in he would sniff it and then look around pathetically as if I'd tricked him and given a hungry horse something that wasn't edible. This went on for a week in cold snowy weather and I finally called the vet back out to put him down as he was literally starving to death with food right in front of him and without the meds he gets in his feed his medical conditions were getting out of control. His bloodwork from earlier in the week had been totally normal, not a thing out of place, and he seemed sound. Long story short it turned out he had a good case of cellulitis going in his neck and although he would put his head down for hay it hurt him so much to do so that it put him off his big bucket of feed and eventually he just lost his appetite entirely. The vet tubed him instead of euthanizing him and we spent the next three days hand-feeding him his meds on a small amount of mush in a mini-sized bucket held at head-height while his appetite slowly increased. He was fine in a week but now I know when he suddenly goes off his food to immediately give him Bute in a small raised bucket and wait for it to kick in before trying larger meals.
Kody also drives me insane. This horse has the most delicate stomach in the world and goes off his hay when he's got ulcers, his grain when he's got allergies, and everything for no reason at all.
This spring he went off everything all at once and ulcer meds were not helping. He acted as if it all tasted bad or wasn't to his liking and eventually he stopped even eating grass. When he lost 20lbs in a few days I panicked and ran him to the hospital where they drew blood, said he was fine and told me to bring him back in three days if he hadn't started eating.
I was like "Excuse me?!?" The only thing that visit got me (besides frustrated) was the discovery that he would eat alfalfa when he wouldn't touch anything else. We got him started eating again using that and he slowly picked up but still isn't eating his grain as I'd like him to although he's otherwise normal.
Even my baby Turbo has developed a tendency to get picky about his hay and it's driving me crazy. :arg!
As far as suggestions I think you've had some good ones. Try the ulcer meds as they can't hurt and usually help. Once she's on the ulcer meds, give her some pain meds as Charlotte described below. Chronic pain can sap a horse's appetite and make them simply give up as both my boys did. For the same reason get her on some good joint supplements right away. Our older Arab we lost a few years ago got those same stiff front knees that kept him from laying down and he got a ton of relief from Adequan injections followed by oral Hyaluronic Acid. She's more than old enough for them and it sounds like she needs them. Other than that, hand-graze her, love her, and talk to her. Let her know how important it is to you that she eat and that if she has more involved issues you'll help her go if that's what she needs. It hurts terribly but it's the most loving thing we can do...Spyder was ready, I didn't listen, and I regret it to this day as life is much harder for him now.
My prayers are with you and your mare. Nothing makes a person feel quite so helpless as the situation you describe.
Leia
A couple of years ago my 30+ year old Arab, Spyderman, suddenly went completely off his feed for the first time in his life and wouldn't touch his beet pulp/hay pellet/senior feed mush. He wanted hay but couldn't chew it enough to swallow it and when I brought his real food in he would sniff it and then look around pathetically as if I'd tricked him and given a hungry horse something that wasn't edible. This went on for a week in cold snowy weather and I finally called the vet back out to put him down as he was literally starving to death with food right in front of him and without the meds he gets in his feed his medical conditions were getting out of control. His bloodwork from earlier in the week had been totally normal, not a thing out of place, and he seemed sound. Long story short it turned out he had a good case of cellulitis going in his neck and although he would put his head down for hay it hurt him so much to do so that it put him off his big bucket of feed and eventually he just lost his appetite entirely. The vet tubed him instead of euthanizing him and we spent the next three days hand-feeding him his meds on a small amount of mush in a mini-sized bucket held at head-height while his appetite slowly increased. He was fine in a week but now I know when he suddenly goes off his food to immediately give him Bute in a small raised bucket and wait for it to kick in before trying larger meals.
Kody also drives me insane. This horse has the most delicate stomach in the world and goes off his hay when he's got ulcers, his grain when he's got allergies, and everything for no reason at all.
Even my baby Turbo has developed a tendency to get picky about his hay and it's driving me crazy. :arg!
As far as suggestions I think you've had some good ones. Try the ulcer meds as they can't hurt and usually help. Once she's on the ulcer meds, give her some pain meds as Charlotte described below. Chronic pain can sap a horse's appetite and make them simply give up as both my boys did. For the same reason get her on some good joint supplements right away. Our older Arab we lost a few years ago got those same stiff front knees that kept him from laying down and he got a ton of relief from Adequan injections followed by oral Hyaluronic Acid. She's more than old enough for them and it sounds like she needs them. Other than that, hand-graze her, love her, and talk to her. Let her know how important it is to you that she eat and that if she has more involved issues you'll help her go if that's what she needs. It hurts terribly but it's the most loving thing we can do...Spyder was ready, I didn't listen, and I regret it to this day as life is much harder for him now.
My prayers are with you and your mare. Nothing makes a person feel quite so helpless as the situation you describe.
Leia
Charlotte said:
valshingle
Well-Known Member
I mentioned your mare to my vet today. She mentioned something I hadn't even thought of and I don't think anyone mentioned. Did she have a good exam after she aborted? She could have a uterine infection. She may need culturing, flushing, infusing, etc.
Anyway, it's a thought.
Anyway, it's a thought.
S
StarRidgeAcres
Guest
Very good question! She had an antibiotic flush twice afterward. Once on the day of and the once the next day. But I don't know that means it's still not possible. I will ask tomorrow when I get the results if for sure an infection would be showing itself in the bloodwork and if not then treat for it just in case.
Thanks!
You sure are covering all your bases.
I've used Adequan before on a dead lame Quarter Horse of mine who had a bad accident that I never thought we would ever be able to ride again. It was like a miracle. She was back up and riding in the ring in a few months good as new.
I've used Adequan before on a dead lame Quarter Horse of mine who had a bad accident that I never thought we would ever be able to ride again. It was like a miracle. She was back up and riding in the ring in a few months good as new.
Erica
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2003
- Messages
- 2,067
- Reaction score
- 9
I haven't read through the responses so someone may have already mentioned this.....and right now I can't remember the name of the "shot".....but for my old mare who is prone to choke, after she chokes she won't eat for days (and one year was nuring a foal) but my vet as a just last resort as otherwise she had a clean bill of health gave her a shot of some sort of immune booster that in turns really seems to boost appetite.
It was a prescription like "vaccine" type of shot....if someone said the name I'd know it, but maybe it will come to me in a few.....she's had it twice and it did make her bounce back out of a little funky stage she was having not eating well.
It was a prescription like "vaccine" type of shot....if someone said the name I'd know it, but maybe it will come to me in a few.....she's had it twice and it did make her bounce back out of a little funky stage she was having not eating well.
ThreeCFarm
Well-Known Member
Is it given IV? What about EqStim?
S
StarRidgeAcres
Guest
First, I want to thank everyone again for all the terrific suggestions (whether posted here or via PM or email); they are were very helpful and a great learning experience for us all. I sure had a LONG list by the time the vet came out!
Bless you all!
Now for the news I was dreading. The bloodwork results came back. Her kidney, liver an calcium numbers were all well within normal range at this time. Potassium is low, but not terribly, but expected for a horse that isn't eating. Her white cell count is slightly low, but not alarming. However her red cell count, which was on the low side of normal in January is now much lower. It was 36 in Jan and is now 27. The diagnosis is "anemia of chronic disease" which basically means there is something going on in her - her belly, lungs, something, that is very wrong. The things I could do to attempt to find out what it is are belly tap, ultrasound of the abdomen, xrays, etc.
After speaking with my vet about her prognosis and taking to heart Bonnie's reminder to me of destiny, I have decided not to put Cappy through the trailer ride to the hospital and all the poking and proding involved in running these tests. I do not believe in my heart the outcome will be any different if I know the specific cause. At this time I am going to keep her on the gastrogard and also on daily banamine for pain. I am fully aware of the damage keeping her on banamine can do to her stomach however I believe it is warranted in this case as my only goal at this time is to keep her as comfortable as possible. I do believe Cappy has days and not weeks left in this life. The only other thing I am going to do is pick up a steriod shot this afternoon and give her that. It may jumpstart her appetite some as many of you suggested and may make her more comfortable.
Thanks again for all the suggestions, prayers and well wishes. It means the world to me. Cappy is one of those special mares that just steals your heart with her gorgeous eyes and a personality that makes you say yes to anything she wants.
Now for the news I was dreading. The bloodwork results came back. Her kidney, liver an calcium numbers were all well within normal range at this time. Potassium is low, but not terribly, but expected for a horse that isn't eating. Her white cell count is slightly low, but not alarming. However her red cell count, which was on the low side of normal in January is now much lower. It was 36 in Jan and is now 27. The diagnosis is "anemia of chronic disease" which basically means there is something going on in her - her belly, lungs, something, that is very wrong. The things I could do to attempt to find out what it is are belly tap, ultrasound of the abdomen, xrays, etc.
After speaking with my vet about her prognosis and taking to heart Bonnie's reminder to me of destiny, I have decided not to put Cappy through the trailer ride to the hospital and all the poking and proding involved in running these tests. I do not believe in my heart the outcome will be any different if I know the specific cause. At this time I am going to keep her on the gastrogard and also on daily banamine for pain. I am fully aware of the damage keeping her on banamine can do to her stomach however I believe it is warranted in this case as my only goal at this time is to keep her as comfortable as possible. I do believe Cappy has days and not weeks left in this life. The only other thing I am going to do is pick up a steriod shot this afternoon and give her that. It may jumpstart her appetite some as many of you suggested and may make her more comfortable.
Thanks again for all the suggestions, prayers and well wishes. It means the world to me. Cappy is one of those special mares that just steals your heart with her gorgeous eyes and a personality that makes you say yes to anything she wants.
