New Reg?

[bfogg]

to see is first have both clubs clean up the measuring. It is a joke period. Some of the classes I was very close to the ring and two of those horses looked to me (just my opinion now) like they could be 39-40 inches

One class I walked in the middle of it and thought it was a B division but it was under 34. This is just a shame. You could see by where the horses came on the exhibitors body they were a horse that should not have been in that class.

Had I spent all the time and money to have a horse at that show I would have been very deeply disturbed and discouraged.

I felt so sorry for some of those astounding horses I saw get the gate for one who SHOULD NOT have been in that class.

I had no axe to grind I was just watching and I just felt terribly terribly sad that it has come to this.

We can put a man on the moon but can't figure out a way to measure these little loves fairly and accurately?

The only thing that should have been on both A and R's agenda this year was to clean up the measuring!

Nothing else period!!!!!!

Okay thats my soapbox rant for today!!!!

:

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Bonnie

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Amen! Bonnie for President!

 

[anita]

Absolutely right Bonnie. Clean up the measuring and I bring to every show 20 and more horses.

Anita

 

[Jean_B]

I know what you mean. I was measuring at an AMHA show this summer...have measured for a number of them now. Anyway, I DQ'd 2 horses, both from the same stable. And you would be amazed at the number of people who came up to me and said "Finally - someone had the guts to do it." These were horses that had been shown all season long, and they were WAY over the mark.

The handler brought up the first horse and had it parked out so far, the hind legs were 45 degrees off square!! He got really hot when I told him to reset him and not stretch him. Refused to measure until he did. Then he proceeded to stab the horse in the back/withers. Told him if he touched the horse again I would not measure. Told him to walk the horse in a circle and set him back up on the line. Got him WAY over. Gave him another chance to walk him around, settle him down. Still got him way over (each time had to tell him to keep his hands off the horse's back). Told him he had one more chance if he wanted to take him back to the stall and let him relex, trim his feet, whatever. He brought him back a couple hours later, still way over. Same thing with the other horse. And people THANKED me.

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

I agree. Making a new registry isn't then answer. We need to clean up the problems first, and I see measuring to be one of the biggest problems.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

You are so correct again Bonnie!

Good for you Jean! If more of the stewards would measure accurately - not ask what height does my horse need to measure in at - I hate that! Plus telling the guy not to stab them in the back. There is a trainer in my area she'll lean on the horse with her thumb nail and all her weight so come measuring time they always measure in. I won't insult trainers, as I know there are reputable ones, but boy are there a bunch that will do anything to win!

 

[Buckskin gal]

I am so glad to hear that someone wants to see that measurement is done correctly. We need more like that! Mary

I know what you mean. I was measuring at an AMHA show this summer...have measured for a number of them now. Anyway, I DQ'd 2 horses, both from the same stable. And you would be amazed at the number of people who came up to me and said "Finally - someone had the guts to do it." These were horses that had been shown all season long, and they were WAY over the mark.

The handler brought up the first horse and had it parked out so far, the hind legs were 45 degrees off square!! He got really hot when I told him to reset him and not stretch him. Refused to measure until he did. Then he proceeded to stab the horse in the back/withers. Told him if he touched the horse again I would not measure. Told him to walk the horse in a circle and set him back up on the line. Got him WAY over. Gave him another chance to walk him around, settle him down. Still got him way over (each time had to tell him to keep his hands off the horse's back). Told him he had one more chance if he wanted to take him back to the stall and let him relex, trim his feet, whatever. He brought him back a couple hours later, still way over. Same thing with the other horse. And people THANKED me.

 

[Miniv]

I agree Bonnie.........It all comes down to the measuring. It's the method of our measuring that needs to be looked at.

Why does both AMHA and AMHR measure at the last mane hairs??? Why NOT the withers???

Of course, once measuring is changed to measuring at the withers, both registries will have to adjust all their regulations accordingly........Yes, that would be a pain initially, but in the long-run it would be beneficial and solve a MULTITUDE of problems!

Yes, all horses would be listed with different measurements on their papers, but as with DNA it could be eased in.

Yes, some horses will measure "over", but those can be accommodated with an adjustment of rules and regs.......WITHOUT starting a whole new registry!

MA

 

[JWC sr.]

Boy I knew I liked this group. I agree on all fronts. Clean up the mess within the existing registries and then adjust the rules to conform to those clean ups. We will all be better for it in the long run.

:aktion033: :aktion033:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have said for a long time - you do NOT need new rules, what you need to do is enforce the ones that you have.

 

[Yaddax3]

How many of you AMHA folks with horses currently measured at 33 to 34 inches really want to start measuring at the withers instead of the last hair on the mane? Be careful what you wish for.

 

[shminifancier]

How many of you AMHA folks with horses currently measured at 33 to 34 inches really want to start measuring at the withers instead of the last hair on the mane? Be careful what you wish for.

True as you start that then ALL will be over. And you Wished you HAD voted for the higher reg.

I don;t think it is a bad idea at all. and knowing they have some monies problem this would bring in some more funds keeping the books in better shape.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have always measured my horses this way.

I want to know what they really stand at, and as every single horse registry in the world measures to the withers and I would not know how to begin finding the"last hairs of the mane" I measure to the withers.

Measuring to the withers would make not a jot of difference to horses already ,measured- as has been hashed out many, many times before.

It is only the horse being registered form whenever onwards to which it would apply.

Since I do not actually have any horses that are over 34" ( except a foal who might or might not go over, ans would probably measure in easily to the last hairs of wherever) this would never be a problem with me.

A horse is as high as it measures, so long as there is a programme in place for the "fallout" what is the problem??

Measuring to the last hair has always been "cheating" anyway- it is just that it is legal and encouraged.( NB I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating!!!!)

In a few years time if the horses were measured correctly there would be no difference.

Anyone who would have their breeding plan ruined by this change is sailing too close to the wind anyway.

 

[Diana]

Bonnie you are correct on cleaning up the measuring straight across the board. My suggestion would be for YOU to become a show steward and start getting things straighten out.

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[angelridge]

How many of you AMHA folks with horses currently measured at 33 to 34 inches really want to start measuring at the withers instead of the last hair on the mane? Be careful what you wish for.

Thats where the 34 to 36 would come in. These horses are in the registry now. I believe they should be allowed to keep their papers and show. The measureing has been the problem since I started in minis 5 years ago. I am one that would show more halter if the measureing was cleaned up and a better measuring stick was used. One that you cannot lean over and fudge the measurement.

 

[stormy]

It doesn't matter where you measure the horse too, last hair of the mane, withers, whatever. Actually we should measure to the middle of the knee joint, would make it impossible to teach a horse to duck for that! I have seen the same things measuring ponies, pricking them with thumb tacks, camping them out, all kinds of stuff and that in 4H! If someone is going to cheat they will find a way no matter what the standard!

 

[Loess Hills]

Measuring continues to be a problem in both registries. We have been to shows with the same horse who had his permanent height papers at 32.25. The summer we showed him at four different shows under four different stewards. One of the stewards was a former AMHA director, and this was when he measured under his permanent height. He measured 31.75", 32.50", 32,75, and 32.25. And once we had to tell the steward that her stick wasn't straight, once the horse was standing in an area that sloped.......we asked to move over slightly, and they accomodated that to take the measurement.

Allowing for variances under different conditions, there has got to be a standard for training stewards, for setting up a controlled area where maybe using a laser sight would allow for efficiency.

I think that if AMHA sets up another division for "overs" that is going to lead to even more discrepencies, more paperwork, more fees, and more chances for "fudging".

Just my opinion!

 

[bfogg]

I do not mean to say there should or should not be a new registry. I don't want not to by any means put any registry or its people down.

I have way to much respect for the wonderful people that chose to do the jobs that they do.I think if everyone that belongs could put on their thinking cap and say okay this is what we want to accomplish what do we have to do to get it!

I don't really like to complain if i don't have a solution but this problem is so far above this tiny brain that I can't even begin to think of a solution.

However there are so many really smart people in all the members, clubs and registries that do have a good brain and by throwing out the problem someone would COME UP WITH A MEASURING DEVICE that would solve the problem I just know it.

The hardest part seems to be to get the powers that be to set measuring as the highest and number one priority.

If we as members clamor to be heard and that this is what people want they will listen. They are good folks, trying their best to do their job.

:

But right now i don't think there is an answer, so what can they do?

I just believe that somebody somewhere has the answer in their head but may not realize it yet!!

:

I am thinking maybe an engineer type person? A mathmatics whiz? A common sense type?

Somebody somewhere has it!!

I don't really show anymore BUT I do know that people will quit showing if they feel they have just spent hundreds of dollars and were cheated, you would have to be stupid to continue to do it.

Then very soon trainers, stewards,judges, fairgrounds and finally registries will be not needed.

A couple of big horse breeds forgot the common man, bred horses that only trainers could ride and you can now buy these horses dirt cheap and many of the trainers and owners are now into minis.

We really need to make a turn right here, right now and fix this thing, nip it in the bud.

Then decide if we want to add a registry etc....

Right now a new reg would have the same problems we have with the 2 that we have.

I am not for or against any reg just feel this needs to be done first .

Also have to add I have so much respect for trainers, they have very difficult,high pressure jobs and I believe 99% are honest hard working nice people.

:

:

We really can fix this!!

JMO

Bonnie

 

[JWC sr.]

Bonnie,

I agreee with you that this stuff can be fixed, with a little work and pressure from the membership on the registries.

As far as a measuring device a wicket system would be very easy to set up exactly as the dog people use it is a device where the it is a inverted U shape that has adjustable legs on both sides and a level bubble on the top. Bot h legs touch and you are in, either leg does not touch you are out.

If they also instituted a rulle where once you have measured up, you cannot be measured down in the future. It would keep folks from forcing the horses down at the end of the year into a smaller class etc. And force everyone to make sure it was right evan at the local shows.

Add that to measuring at the withers, an easy recognizable point and you have it finished.

Whatever we can do to level the playing field and make everyone feel they are getting a fair shake is imperative to do. Including, but not limited to proper measuing, enforcing the fraternation rule for shows etc. etc.

Trainers do have a very difficult job, in that the customers they have expect results from the money they spend. All in all I agree they do a good and ethical job, but there are always a few that will push the envelope if allowed too. But behind the scenes they will even say they wished it was corrected where they were not put in the position to have to fudge a little to keep a client.

These wonderful little horses we all raise deserve a cohesive and energetic group of owners to let the rest of the world known how great they are. And it is discussions like this that will help that cause along. :aktion033:

:saludando:

 

[disneyhorse]

I think the basic problem with measuring... is that you are measuring a LIVING ANIMAL. It can be tense, cold, clipped differently, standing funny, or have it's feet trimmed recently or long ago... and that will greatly affect it's height by a QUARTER OF AN INCH.

Very few breeds put SO MUCH emphasis on height to the nearest quarter of an inch. And people are ALWAYS going to gripe about those taller horses in their class and use that as an excuse as to why their horse didn't do as well.

I have never seen the big deal about height. There are AMAZING small horses and AMAZING tall horses in all aspects of competition. I think some of those 32" driving horses can beat the pants off of some 38" driving horses... horses are highly individual, and so is the competitive ring.

I honestly don't think there is some "magic, fair way" of measuring. I think the Stewards do a good job, and it's just not a big deal to me. Stewards are not Bad People. I think it's unfair that they always have such a bad rap.

Andrea