New rules

[minih]

Could someone please tell me the new rules with either/both AMHA/AMHR breeding stallions and being able to register the offspring? I'm sorry I have not paid much attention, until I was asked a question today. Would like to be able to answer with some information. I went on the AMHR website and looked in the rulebook, couldn't find it.

 

[Chamomile]

I think you mean the rule where the AMHR stallion has to have his papers brought permanent before his offspring can be registered. As far as I know AMHA doesn't have that rule, yet

 

[minih]

So it doesn't have anything to do with age? The foal can be born in May and the stallion not turn three until later, the foal can be registered in after the papers are permed no matter age?

 

[shadyacersminis]

I think you mean the rule where the AMHR stallion has to have his papers brought permanent before his offspring can be registered.  As far as I know AMHA doesn't have that rule, yet

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I havent heard about this rule..... Does this mean, say, if you have a 2 year old colt that you bred to one or two mares, The resulting foals cant be registered until after the Stallions actual 3rd birthday and after the papers are brought perm..

 

[minih]

As far as I know AMHA doesn't have that rule, yet 

I didn't think so, just covering all bases up front

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

Here is the way I understand it.

You can't use a stallion thats younger than 2 years of age. And they must be brought pernament until you can register the foal. Both of these rules AMHR just put in and not have its members vote on it, so its kind of contraversial.

 

[shadyacersminis]

Just curious here, but has this rule already gone into effect.....

"so its kind of contraversial"

I would think soo too, I always thought this kind of rule change was supposed to be voted on.....

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

Yes it was in their rule book of 2005. Thats why so few of people know about it because AMHR never did send any notices or have its members voted it on it at Convention in 2004 and it was so badly worded in its rulebook. I finially understand the rule but their is so many loop holes to the rule where the stallion has to be brought to pernament before you can register it foals.

 

[Tony]

AMHA rule in this regard only applies after a stallion is eligible to be brought permanent at age five. After that time, no foals can be registered until he is brought perm. Prior to his fifth birthday, all foals could be registered as long as they are submitted before he turns five (actual birthdate).

 

[Aggravation Acres]

So this rule makes me kind of wonder, No one will be able to sell their 2 year old stallions if they breed them to any of their mares.

I have a stallion that will be 2 this spring. I was going to breed him to 2 of my mares then sell him.

Now I am thinking, I cannot sell him because if the new owner does not do anything with his papers when he turns 3, I will not be able to register his foals.

And what happens if you bred a 2 year old stallion. and then he dies before his 3rd birthday. Will his foals not able to be registered?

Deb

 

[Jill]

As I understood it, with AMHR, you could use a stallion that was younger, even a yearling (not that I would, but whatever), and you could get papers on the offspring but not until the stallion was old enough for and received his permanent papers. So, you'd have an unregistered foal until that foal for about a year. Is this correct?

 

[Jill]

So this rule makes me kind of wonder, No one will be able to sell their 2 year old stallions if they breed them to any of their mares.I have a stallion that will be 2 this spring. I was going to breed him to 2 of my mares then sell him. 

Now I am thinking, I cannot sell him because if the new owner does not do anything with his papers when he turns 3, I will not be able to register his foals.

And what happens if you bred a 2 year old stallion. and then he dies before his 3rd birthday. Will his foals not able to be registered?

Deb

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Oh, very good points!

 

[sdmini]

Here is my 2005 "where the heck did she come from" baby. (Ok, not really but it was not planned) Her dam was shown in 2004 and also in the barn was a yearling stallion. As she wasn't planned, knowing about the rule would have made little differnce BUT I was very suprised when after several jumps through hoops directed by AMHR staff I find out she is not able to be registered.

This is the run down from Zona. At the last convention an ex board member suddenly remembered that waaaaayyyyy back when AMHR voted on the issue of registering foals out of two year old stock it was mares and stallions.

I called my director, he knew nothing of the rule or any talk at the convention.

I wrote up a letter (as directed by my director) detailing my situation and mailed it to my director, Zona & the AMHR president. Two months later I call Zona to see what's going on. I feel bad for the poor woman she said she has been flooded with phone calls on this. She said it would be in the 2006 rule book (was NOT in the 2005). She said this is the first she has ever heard of the rule and she has worked for AMHR for over 20 years.

The bad thing is my filly's dam was only AMHR, sire AMHA/AMHR. I will be hardshipping in the dam to AMHA but that will be two years from now before she becomes of age.

I've gotten no respose from either the President or the director, all I wanted to know was the date the rule was voted on and the actual wording of the orignal rule. Shouldn't be a big deal, I wouldn't think that a major breed association would take the word of one ex board member and look it up for themselves before placing it in the rule book.

 

[horsehug]

sdmini,

Your 2005 baby is Adorable!!!!

Susan O.

 

[Becky]

Personally, I think the rule is absolutely ridiculous!!!! I understand (I think) the reason for implementing and that is to keep people from breeding 'young' horses on purpose. But, *number 1, accidents happen, *number 2, if both sire and dam are registered, there is absolutely no reason to deny registration on a resulting offspring no matter the age of it's parents!!!!!

I think it's totally unfair and unreasonable that AMHR can have a rule such as this.

 

[Karen S]

Hi to All:

I sat in on the ASPC/AMHR Board of Director meeting at the 2005 Convention when this subject was brought up. Here is what was discussed:

Yes, that AMHR stallion must be brought permanent (his third birthday) before any foals can be registered.

We had a vote in all committees...Modern/Modern Pleasure, Classic/Foundation, Miniatures that passed regarding registering animals and DNA. All foals MUST BE registered by the end of their YEARLING year. If a Sire or Dam dies, then DNA must be done on an offspring of that Sire or Dam. Example: Sire has two foals that are full siblings, the sire dies and a third foal is on the ground. Then DNA must be pulled from the two full siblings to show that the third is also kin to the Sire. Same thing with a Dam. If any offspring are two and three years old they too will have to be DNA. There will be no more late stallion reports after three years. Most of this will not take effect until 2007 so everyone will have a chance to get those foals registered this year (2006).

A lot of what was discussed in the ASPC/AMHR Board of Director meeting will be in our 2005 December Journal and some could be in the 2006 February Journal. Please read your Journals very carefully when they come in so you won't miss any important information that will take place. We have a lot of breeders (from some of the discussions in the different meetings) that don't registered their foals until they were older...and it will stop that practice from those breeders. Most of us when our foals are born register those foals right away so that rule will not effect you if you do register early, only those that procrastinate.

Karen Shaw

Fiddlestix Miniatures & Shetlands

Burleson Texas

 

[Marnie]

What if the sire is bred at 2 and dies before he is brought permanent and doesn't have any full siblings? I know of two cases, right now like this so if I know 2, then there's plenty more. I don't think they had any right to just take this upon themselves to vote this in without asking the members how they feel or to give us any warnings. For me, I wouldn't breed with a two yr old stud any longer and I certainly wouldn't breed and then sell him and have to hope the new owner would bring him permanent so I could reg his foals. I still think this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard them do and it could have been handled better. Sorry to be so blunt, I must have took a crabby pill this morning.

 

[Minimor]

If you took your crabby pills this morning, Marnie, then I guess I got into them too because I completely agree with everything you said.

The Miniatures get into enough snarls with registration problems, what with the temporary to permanent issue, sales of young stallions that aren't yet eligible for their permanent papers, foals that get sold on application and aren't registered by their new owners....then somewhere down the line the horse is sold on & the next owner wants to finally register the horse...all this new rule does it make it even more complicated and frustrating.

And Marnie got it so right, about the issue of the stallion dying prior to his 3rd birthday/getting permanent papers. If the stallion dies prior to his 3rd birthday, odds are pretty good that he doesn't yet have any registered foals

--obviously he can't have any registered foals????--so never mind one foal that needs to be DNA tested & compared to its siblings, there might be a whole foal crop of 3, 5, 15? foals that need to be DNA'd and compared to each other. Explain how that is supposed to work???

Doesn't matter to me, I don't have a 2 year old stallion to worry about, but you know what I see happening? Someone's 2 1/2 year old stallion is going to die after breeding 15 mares, and when it comes time for those foals to be registered, the owner is simply going to make up a height for the stallion's permanent application, send it in & register those foals as if there is nothing wrong. It isn't as if there isn't already plenty of deceit going on when it comes to registration issues, this new rules is just going to encourage cheating.

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

Thats why I said there are so many loopholes to this rule

Well atleast we FINIALLY got some answers. I honestly feel like none of the new rules should have been taken affect like sdmini's case. No notice or anything and than the rulebooks finially came out but in June when breeding season has begun and some has ended. Atleast they are giving everyone a chance to register there foals it sounds like, but if people bred there yearlings (they shouldn't) than it sounds like bad for them.

Sorry I'm somewhat with Becky on this one. I mean if you think about it, what if a stallion you breed was 2 and had no babies on the ground and dies, than that next years foal is out of luck? I guess you can pull out some of your stallion's mane just incase. I also feel like the owners shouldnt have to pay to DNA unless it was like $10 or something but I find that hard to believe.

Ok I guess I said my peace AGAIN on this rule.

 

[kaykay]

She said it would be in the 2006 rule book (was NOT in the 2005

its is in the 2005 rule book that the stallion must be brought perm before any foals can be registered. I typed out the whole rule last time this came up straight from the rule book. the wording is just kinda vague.

i just dont think rules like this should take effect until at least 1 year after its announced. that gives people time to adjust.

kinda like when they closed hardshipping with NO notice and so many breeders like mary lou had already bred horses to hardship and now couldnt. that should have had a 3 yr notice but thats just my opinion

Kay