Well, I've been horse crazy since a child, going on almost 40 years now!
Dh has given the go for a pair of minis next year after we get some of our house projects done here, and build a little barn and put up fencing. First issue is: FEEDING:
The thing that is really scaring me at this point, is FOUNDER. I have some horsey neighbors and friends who make it sound like they will founder for sure and then be either euthanized or just pasture sound. I want to drive them, not competitively but for fun. Also want to play around with horse agility, and hiking/backpacking with them.
Founder is preventable BUT also treatable with management. I'm assuming that when you said "they" above, you meant your friends & neighbors were referring to Minis? Yes, in very severe, previously untreated cases, it might require euthanasia. Building your knowledge before hand and being proactive in your horse's management is GREAT. Developing a good relationship with both an equine vet and a farrier is part of that management, too. Preferably with ones that are familiar with minis, but that is not absolutely necessary. Please understand that student vets don't pop out of Vet school w/ complete knowledge of minis UNLESS they've been previously involved with them (same for any other area of vet specialties, too). The best way to start your founder prevention is to start with performance bred (not show bred?) horses that show no early signs of laminitus or founder. Then follow thru with your management program(s).
There is a show breeder near me, and I plan to just copy their feeding program, but I'm still not entirely clear on feeding. So what they do is an orchard/alfalfa mix hay, very soft and green. Their horses get it free choice since there are several in groups, but have told me that 1 flake a day per horse is all they need. Then each horse gets "maybe" a cup a day depending on condition of Purina Mini/Pony feed. I've read it's something like 1.5-2% of the horse's body weight in hay.
They are kept on dry lot most of the time. Spring they say they horses are on pasture an hour or so and by the end of summer maybe 3 hours. I'm still confused, and would like to hear from any Northern VA, or north eastern US folks about their grazing schedule (as in month by month). The last thing I want to do is make these little guys sick
This sounds like a halter show program, not necessarily a performance show program. The horses are having not only their weight, but also their coats managed to be optimal for showing. That means little to no sun or bug exposure during the day. Neither their feeding program nor their pasture time management will necessarily work for you - pasture, hay or feed.
I have space for a good sized dry lot, up to 60x60'. I have 3 cleared acres, and available area for pasture about 1 1/4 acre total. There is a good spot (90x100')for training or pasture even, but I have very mixed forage growing. There are several different types of grasses, as well as chick weed and clover.
I'm having the soil tested this spring to see how much lime and fertilizer it needs.
Sounds like you are covering all your bases. That is great. Mixed pasture grasses are good and offer more nutrients overall. Your overall set up sounds very DROOL WORTHY...
So I hear clover is high sugar, and there are some large patches of that in various spots. Should I kill it? (Clover is great for my chickens though, in tractors!) If I want to overseed, should I get orchard grass? Or just leave things as they are and feed hay/purina as the majority of the diet?
I'm not sure what the sugar content is on Clover in a natural state (Honestly there are other things I need to spend my time on). I imagine that it also makes a difference what type of clover. NO, I wouldn't kill it (I'm getting ready to seed our pastures w/ some clover - can't even remember the kinds I am going to get). You do want to watch the "Alslike clover" (think that's what it's called... will have to look it up). It does create sun sensitivity - can cause blisters on white areas of the muzzle and on the legs - especially if clipped (which it sounds like you'd only do on a performance basis at first - not a show clip, so not really a concern. Another way to prevent the burn/blistering is to make sure any dew or frost on the grass has dried up before horses turned out on it).
All grasses in your area will be high in sugar (LUSH) in the spring when it is first growing like crazy AND anytime you are hit by a late or early frost (pasture OR hay baled after a frost). When ever I get hay or have pasture that has been hit by frost, my farrier and I joke about "sugar feet" as we DO see some differences - in a short amount of time. Some of mine have developed some sensitivity or experience some soreness - it is noted and watched - amazingly it's usually on the younger, under 3 yrs of age, ponies, not the older ones. Frost on hay can be a killer issue with cattle, not that bad with horses, but something you do want to be aware of.
Next issue is fencing/paddock/dry lot. The area we want to put them on is an easement for power lines. They rarely come through, but they do once in a while. We have our 5 acres (partially wooded) fenced, but with large gates for their trucks to pass through. I really don't want to put anymore fencing on there... anyway, is a large paddock good (that would turn into dry lot eventually I suppose) or is something like a paddock paradise better? A PP will cost more in fencing, and I don't want to do electric fencing (don't want my kids shocked). But I hate seeing them just stand around all day, too. I want to be sure they're moving around.
Allowing for movement is always better. Horses in the wild cover A LOT of territory, returning again and again to the same areas later. Mini horses will still need to do exercise. Even in your dry lot/paddock, you can encourage movement by feeding hay in one (or several different) spot, water in another, feed in another and salt somewhere as well. They will move to each spot to do what they do. Some will even poop in the same areas - sure makes clean up nice and easy. Others will go where ever...
Why no hot wire again? Something wrong with teaching children to respect it just like you will need to teach the horses it is hot? After you tell them so many times, they will only get shocked once (if you have a child with developmental problems, that's different, but I don't "see" that child being unsupervised at all for any moment in time, right?). Hot fencing is more affordable for PP type arrangements and is/can be portable. It is still expensive, too. I know this because we are having to go back to it.
Our ponies are destroying our fencing completely here on our new property - and I'm tired of working on fences!! I want to be able to actually groom and work ponies instead of constantly dealing with fence repair (of course there is regular fence maintenance - even for hot wire). Winter coated ponies, when it hit 90* 2 weeks ago - rubbed their whole bodies along the fence lines - bending the field fence down and pouching it out, breaking wire and zip ties on the 16' steel panels. Wood fencing has changed over the years! It's not what it once was. Our ponies put their heads/necks thru the boards and push until the fence tilts over (sandy soil - event cemented posts 3' deep move when subjected to this abuse) or break the boards. I was not happy to go out to the barn and find a whole group of ponies missing one morning. Gathered up the "treat bucket" and some halters and leads and headed towards the drive way only to hear honking. The school bus coming down our neighbor hood road (a connection between 2 highways actually) had the whole group of 6 trotting along in front of it... They turned into our driveway and galloped (& bucked and played & shook their heads) right up to the gate to be let back into the correct pasture (they knew which it was)... CRAZY PONIES! But good for a laugh too once my heart returned to my chest (ponies & minis are no different than kids - THEY WILL FIND TROUBLE - ESPECIALLY IF BORED. Much more so than full size horses. I can't explain why on that one).
We will be putting hot wire up around this place AND around the chain linked back yard. Having issues with our dogs here, too! If hot wire is totally unacceptable or you are afraid of being able to (NOT) see it - there is hot rope and various types of hot tape now too.
If anyone has a PP, how wide are your trails?
When we moved to our new property, it had a fence around about 7 acres. They had had 2 full size horses originally (I think?) then they re-fenced when they got 4 minis (about 6-10" smaller than most of our Shetlands). No hot wire. I've put up 16' stock panels in two "paddocks" so far (one for boys and one for girls). The one with the boys has two stud pens in it as well as the ability for a 3rd. Because my eventual dream is to have not just a PP, but an obstacle course sized for both our small ponies and minis AND for full size horses, plus wanted to be able to have large equipment able to get in/around the pastures (manure spreader, rig w/ trailer to drop large round bales) - even the service trucks for the power line that also crosses our property, our interior fences are set 30' off of the perimeter fencing. Corners on the interior fencing are also angled - allowing for easier navigation around the paddocks. Not all the interior is done yet - but it will be the same. Eventually we will have fencing around the exterior of the whole 21 acres with trees cleared away from the fencing to be able to drive both vehicles and horses/ponies next to it if desired or needed. We don't plan on actually clearing any more paddock/pasture areas, but we do plan on doing some trail clearing in such a way as to go up and down hill, cross a stream, cross back on itself etc. The trails will need to be wide enough to allow draft horses to pull BIG wagons thru and again vehicles to allow for maintaining the tree heights... We haven't crossed that bridge yet and I don't know how wide those trails will be as of right now. After almost 15 months in this house, we are still trying to get everything situated, LOL. BUT gives both hubby and I something to dream about (his don't involve the ponies, LOL).,..
And lastly, these minis are used to standing around all day, and are pretty tubby (at the breeders). I plan on teaching them to longe and then work up to pulling a cart. How much "exercise" do I start with? I assume it's like a human, where you work up to a certain amount?
Some of my best riding lessons have been on a lounge line - both mine and others I've taught. I grew up using lounging as a training AND exercising technique for the horse. It works for me - always has and always will. I teach others how to do it. I train horses to do it. I espouse that you can spend just 5 minutes at a time to start with when conditioning, but if you are just starting training a horse to lounge, especially if it's also your first time, it's gonna be much longer than that. The difference? You aren't working the horse to death in circle after circle - you are teaching it with control. If you don't have any control, then that's what you need to figure out first - so that the horse ISN'T running crazy wild on that circle (killing your neck, arms and shoulders in the process as well as posing injury for him).
I have also learned how to do some of the Natural Horsemanship type lounging - and I DID injure not one but several horses when working by myself. Because I am a rather aggressive person, I had a hard time learning to "read" the horse(s) in a different context than what I was familiar with (years' worth) AND these were high energy, high stamina horses w/ no give or quit (Arabs & Arab Xs). Several NH types refuse to work with Arabs, actually!! I went and got some more training FOR ME. I learned what I was doing wrong and HOW TO FIX IT. I still prefer to do "on-line" work over "free work". Maybe someday, I'll learn how to work with mine completely at liberty, but maybe not. I have a lot of ponies and also not a lot of time to spend on each individual - that kind of work takes more of a bond in my opinion and I don't use it enough to get it to "click" for me. Same for "clicker training" - though I have seen MANY wonderful examples of that training. I do incorporate many of the NH techniques but honestly I've been using those same techniques with horses since I was 5 yrs old and that was what I was taught LONG BEFORE it was called "Natural Horsemanship"...
And what's this about not letting a hot horse drink? Do you have to let them cool back down? So... let's say I take them for a drive somewhere, do I let them drink while they're pulling?
Basic horsemanship. No, a hot sweaty horse is not to be allowed to drink - especially large amounts (and that can be hard to regulate once they start). Now, that said. Here's the confusing part. Athlete horses (Endurance, racing, conditioned & fit, used to going long miles at a fast, steady gait or shorter distances at high speeds) ARE stood in buckets of ICED water at their stops/breaks. Large muscle groups are swiped w/ iced water or that water is poured over the horse (and rider). The horse can and usually is offered water - though that is usually warmed by the sun or heated by a heat source so it's not too cool AND by the sip. Internally, you don't want a hot horse drinking water BECAUSE it can cause cramps that result in colic. A hot horse should never be turned loose on pasture either, IMO. But you learn as you go. I find that by the time a horse is walked enough to cool him down, just like me, that he isn't going to cramp or colic when offered that first few sips of water. If they are really wet with sweat - I hose them down to remove the sweat if it's warm enough (at least over 60* and now we are on a well, ours prefer it to be warmer out - that water is COLD!) and if it's not, then I use towels & blankets to remove the sweat and dry the coat.
I've always let my hot horses cool off before offering them a drink - usually when we are back at our trailer and they are being unhitched. They can and do drink from ponds, lakes, rivers & streams while driving - if they are really hot and sweaty and I know where the water is (how far to get there) - I incorporate a cool down walk BEFORE we arrive and then yes, I let them drink. I don't allow them to "gorge" - that takes learning your horse to know how much is too much. I think too little, in most cases, is better than too much if they are hot. Especially if you are a long ways away from your trailer.
This pair is too hot in this picture to just go drink. They were actually heaving for air at this point - we'd done some serious uphill trail work for a bit of extended time (new trails to me) w/ a lot of weight in the wagon. When pulling a load, it's not a good idea to stop on the hills you are going up. I refused to drive off until their breathing returned to normal (peeved my passenger off, but oh well) and some of the sweat had quit dripping... Neither wanted to drink when we got to the trailer (they were very hot, though not sweaty any longer) and I used that water to sponge them off - over their heads, chest and backs & haunches. About 30 minutes later - they did both drink enough to make me happy - before we loaded them into the trailer and headed home - a 45 minute drive away. When we got home they were hosed off, swiped dry w/ a scraper and turned out. They both rolled (normal behavior) and then headed to the 100 gallon water tank and drank to their heart's content (also normal behavior)... This was November 2011 and the girls hadn't been trace clipped to allow for working in hotter weather. I know that I was wearing a tank top and I wasn't the only one!
Here they are working hard! This disk and my large "hiney" are meant to be pulled by a pair of DRAFT HORSES. But they did one full row - up and back, plus got the disk to the field and then pulled it back to where it started (a lot of pulling!!). They got tired, hot and sweaty.
But do they look unhappy or injured here? They are BAR (bright, alert & responsive - a common vet and dr term). They were unharnessed and rubbed somewhat dry and sweat marks kinda combed out/over. Then led to a hydrant and given water in their own bucket. At first just a few sips and then I carried the bucket back to the trailer with us. a bit later they were offered more. And then finally they were allowed to drink as much as they wanted. They ended up spending the nite standing tied in that trailer with a whole group of ponies that night. We were 3 hours from home and when the plowing pics were taken, the tornadoes that swept thru our home, stomping grounds severely damaged the TSC and completely flattened the Lowe's Home Improvement store just 17 miles from the farm we were leasing. We ended up pulling into a truckstop and couldn't get any further as no electricity for fuel and such and trees down all along/over the highway. The next morning my hubby (who didn't usually go to the events with my friend and I) met us there with 2 fuel cans w/ diesel for her truck. We had water with us to water all the ponies... and hay in hay nets hanging in the trailer.
I myself don't always like iced water or drinks - especially if I'm hot. I have been dropped by abdominal cramps by drinking water that is too cold while I've been overheated - while running and that was when I was 30 yrs younger and fit while active duty Army - in Korea & later a 2nd time in Germany. 2 of our 3 daughters will drink soda or tea (at restaurants) w/o ice. OOPS, guess that makes us "not southerners"...
There's so much conflicting information... I'm reading a horse care book from the library and it makes it sound like all horses are delicate flowers!
yes, there can be conflicting information. Some books were written before a lot was known about horses. I can honestly state that I've seen some weird stuff, and can't remember all the titles/authors. Can we ask which book you are reading and when it was written?
Horses are different than other livestock and pets - due to their large digestive tracts being compressed and squished into a very small, compact area (the horse's barrel). Everything moves one way in horses. If it gets stopped for any reason, that can be a BIG problem. Horses are meant to move and to forage, not stand and eat concentrated feeds. Generally horses on pasture are going to be in better shape than those kept stabled or stalled - but that VARIES. AND now, there's a push for just drugs and a lot of "old school" info for good care of horses has been lost or is ignored.
Personally, you read enough books and info, you will learn and find a lot of commonalities that are truth. You will learn what works for you and your unique set up and horses. Asking on this forum - for each person who answers, there will be what works for THEM and may not work for you! You already started by stating where you are and pinpointing that you needed info for that area.
Eep!
No worries!! It will come. When you get your horses - START WITH GETTING the same hay/feed that they have (preferably they send you home with some of theirs).
Despite all this, I really am thrilled to be FINALLY having my own equines
<3
another mini
Thanks, everyone for the help!
You are welcome. Hopefully, some of this helps.
<3
