Newbies WAKE UP

[Eagle]

well said. I totally agree MBennettp

 

[jegray21]

And this goes for all sizes of horse. I've been shocked by some of the ads I've seen on Craigslist recently for full-sized horses.

Leia

Craigslist is very sad here..free horses all look so unhealthy..

 

[jegray21]

This is a "bit" elitist don't you think? There are a lot of people who show "champion" horses that haven't a clue about good conformation or what it really takes to create a good horse. Believe me, I have spent enough time in the show ring with other breeds to KNOW that "Mr/Mrs Champion" can (and often does) have faults that are covered up and the horses shown "just right" when the Judge is standing there. Also, MOST people here, who go on about only breeding champ to champ, are ONLY talking about the Halter ring...something that is the ruination of many breeds, so don't hand me that garbage that the show horses are the "be all and end all" of ANY breed.

That said, if one educates themselves on form to function, which is simply conformation, and suitability for the job the horses is expected to do, then there is nothing wrong with their "un-champions" going on to produce horses that can be far superior to many who have championship ribbons.

I agree

from what I have seen some of the halter horses can only do halter, not sure that should be the only goal for breeding miniature horses. I still think minis need stallion testing to get registered as breeding stallions if you want to limit and improve the registry...Friesian horses go through 90 days of testing to get accepted into the sud book, with out passing their babies can not be registered. Just a thought...

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Molly I dont think Michelle at all is putting down mares, shes promoting geldings. I always recommend newbies start with a gelding. Especially if they want to show etc. A great gelding is worth their weight in gold. They are easier to play with and show because they are not distracted by raging hormones like a mare or stallion.

neither of my mares show any signs of heat at the shows. in my eyes, mares are just as good, if not better, than geldings.

i have never met a gelding that was worth his weight in gold, all the geldings i had were nightmares and nearly ruined me for good on the miniature breed.

The only gelding i have that i can actually get along with is Toby, but i think thats because i was the first person who ever really worked with him instead of leaving him to rot in a feild.

i'd choose a mare over a gelding any day no matter what anybody would recommend.

 

[Taylor Richelle]

neither of my mares show any signs of heat at the shows. in my eyes, mares are just as good, if not better, than geldings.

i have never met a gelding that was worth his weight in gold, all the geldings i had were nightmares and nearly ruined me for good on the miniature breed.

The only gelding i have that i can actually get along with is Toby, but i think thats because i was the first person who ever really worked with him instead of leaving him to rot in a feild.

i'd choose a mare over a gelding any day no matter what anybody would recommend.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have only ever owned one mare and it was a riding horse, she was the sweetest horse ever. She had her moments also. Other then her I have only ever had geldings, 3 riding horses, a welsh pony and 3 minis (ones a stud) They all had/have amazing personalities. My gelding Sox who I bought last March IS worth his weight in gold. I am so blessed to own him and tell him every day. i wouldn't trade him for anything. It all depends on the horse you end up with, you never know what your going to get. I'll own another mare someday, just waiting for that right one to come along!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

neither of my mares show any signs of heat at the shows. in my eyes, mares are just as good, if not better, than geldings.

i have never met a gelding that was worth his weight in gold, all the geldings i had were nightmares and nearly ruined me for good on the miniature breed.

The only gelding i have that i can actually get along with is Toby, but i think thats because i was the first person who ever really worked with him instead of leaving him to rot in a feild.

i'd choose a mare over a gelding any day no matter what anybody would recommend.

Sorry you feel that way about geldings. All I have is geldings and I love them. I've had more trouble with mares and their attitudes. I wish more people would show mares instead of using them for breeding but we also have to promote geldings, the more people geld their colts then the better quality stallions would be out there.

 

[disneyhorse]

Sorry you feel that way about geldings. All I have is geldings and I love them. I've had more trouble with mares and their attitudes. I wish more people would show mares instead of using them for breeding but we also have to promote geldings, the more people geld their colts then the better quality stallions would be out there.

I agree! Geldings are, for the most part, wonderful guys!!! Molly, I don't know what geldings you've come across, but if you ever have a chance to make it to either AMHA or AMHR Nationals, be sure to check out the Youth days. Particularly the performance classes. You will see a LOT of geldings that are "worth their weight in gold." Especially if you are a parent. It takes a horse worth it's weight in gold to take care of little kids. And there are some LITTLE youngsters out there in the ring, all by themselves, being taken care of by wonderful geldings.

Andrea

 

[mydaddysjag]

I'm from the big horse world, where geldings are the most sought after. After 6 years with minis, it still dumbfounds me that Geldings are frowned upon, or considered worthless pretty much. I'll agree, you can get a naughty gelding, i've seen some who were gelded late who weren't as sweet as some, but for the most part, all the geldings I have were really fun horses who you could just work with, and not have to fight. Ive had more mares than geldings, and although I love mares too, mine were defiantly spunkier than my geldings. What upsets me so much about mares is that they are often retired to the breeding shed by 3 years old, or the breeder bred them with their only intent to be a broodmare. Im one of those people that think every horse should have a purpose other than breeding, be it halter, driving, obstacle, therapy, etc. Three years seems like a very short career to me, but then again, I come from biggies where people ride their horses into their twenties. I quit showing my barrel mare at 19...

As far as stallions, I just dont understand why everyone has one, or heck, even 5. Still in the mindset from biggies I guess, where 1 in every 50 horse owners you know has a stud, and if its a stud, it probably has at least half decent conformation. I'd bed its a lot cheaper to pay a stud fee for a stallion that compliments your mare than the purchase price of 5 different stallions, and the cost of keeping them.

But hey, I dont breed, and I dont own stallions.

The crappy market for geldings keeps GREAT geldings very cheap for people like me.

 

[midnight star stables]

Molly, you shouldn't judge any group as a whole!

I went to school with a mean blond haired, blue eyed kid. Does that mean all blond haired, blue eyed kid are mean??

I have had gelding, mares, colts and stallions. Each individual was just that! An individual.

Many years ago I had the same STRONG opinion you did, only my love was towards stallions. I was blessed with one of the most amazing horses to ever walk this earth and he happened to be a stallion. This stallion's pasture mate was an ill tempered gelding who didn't care for children. Growing up with these two horses, I grew to believe stallions were amazing beings and God's greatest gift and that gelding were just horses not good enough to be a great stallion.......................................................................

:rofl

Has my opinion ever CHANGED!

Since I couldn't show that amazing stallion, I bought another stallion to geld. Nitro was extremely different from my original stallion Midnight. Nitro has become a great assest to our barn. He has a huge heart. He gets along with everyone and shows up a storm in the ring. Also totally different from my first gelding. Hmmm...

I got another boy and he to was very different from all my other boys.

And the same with all my mares. And anyone who know's my mare Joy knows she's very special... Grumpy and mean as could be but she loves to work and she loves me. You should see our liberty classes, they're a hoot. But I'd never hand her over to a youth or true amateur. She likes to act bossy and grumpy even though she is a true love bug. But that's her - Not all mares. Dove and Vision are/were the sweetest, calmest, quietest horses ever. Some horses are worth MORE then their weight in gold!

So I'm when I'm shopping, I'm looking at geldings and mares. I don't need a stallion in my life, just good horses!

So my point is each horse is an individual. You need to find the match for you - not the gender.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

neither of my mares show any signs of heat at the shows. in my eyes, mares are just as good, if not better, than geldings.

i have never met a gelding that was worth his weight in gold, all the geldings i had were nightmares and nearly ruined me for good on the miniature breed.

The only gelding i have that i can actually get along with is Toby, but i think thats because i was the first person who ever really worked with him instead of leaving him to rot in a feild.

i'd choose a mare over a gelding any day no matter what anybody would recommend.

Obviously you've never met one of my boys. They, too, ARE worth their weight in gold! Sunny does pretty much anything from pony rides to parades to a Reserve Grand at Nationals in WCP. Dunny is the one to let kids play with and brush- he never moves a muscle.

Plus, I'm getting a new gelding at the end of May (THANKS, PEGGY!!!) and I hope Misty's foal is a colt- so I can GELD it!!

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Molly, you shouldn't judge any group as a whole!

I went to school with a mean blond haired, blue eyed kid. Does that mean all blond haired, blue eyed kid are mean??

I have had gelding, mares, colts and stallions. Each individual was just that! An individual.

Many years ago I had the same STRONG opinion you did, only my love was towards stallions. I was blessed with one of the most amazing horses to ever walk this earth and he happened to be a stallion. This stallion's pasture mate was an ill tempered gelding who didn't care for children. Growing up with these two horses, I grew to believe stallions were amazing beings and God's greatest gift and that gelding were just horses not good enough to be a great stallion.......................................................................

:rofl

Has my opinion ever CHANGED!

Since I couldn't show that amazing stallion, I bought another stallion to geld. Nitro was extremely different from my original stallion Midnight. Nitro has become a great assest to our barn. He has a huge heart. He gets along with everyone and shows up a storm in the ring. Also totally different from my first gelding. Hmmm...

I got another boy and he to was very different from all my other boys.

And the same with all my mares. And anyone who know's my mare Joy knows she's very special... Grumpy and mean as could be but she loves to work and she loves me. You should see our liberty classes, they're a hoot. But I'd never hand her over to a youth or true amateur. She likes to act bossy and grumpy even though she is a true love bug. But that's her - Not all mares. Dove and Vision are/were the sweetest, calmest, quietest horses ever. Some horses are worth MORE then their weight in gold!

So I'm when I'm shopping, I'm looking at geldings and mares. I don't need a stallion in my life, just good horses!

So my point is each horse is an individual. You need to find the match for you - not the gender.

so far i've never had a gelding match, besides Toby and thats still a maybe. i've had 4 mini geldings throughout my life, all were terrible and one tried to kill me when i was little

so far, i'm pretty much ruined on male horses. maybe, just maybe, Toby will change that with time

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Obviously you've never met one of my boys. They, too, ARE worth their weight in gold! Sunny does pretty much anything from pony rides to parades to a Reserve Grand at Nationals in WCP. Dunny is the one to let kids play with and brush- he never moves a muscle.

Plus, I'm getting a new gelding at the end of May (THANKS, PEGGY!!!) and I hope Misty's foal is a colt- so I can GELD it!!

well, thats your opinion. my opinion, and personal experiance, has taught me to NEVER turn my back on any male horse whether its gelded or not.

 

[bluerogue]

Molly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Your experience has been negative with geldings, so of course your opinion will be negative. Mine has been pretty positive, so I have no problem with geldings. I've gelded a few of my own, but never purchased a gelding. I've had some good experiences with stallions, as well as one absolutely terrible one. The terrible one was a colt I'd bred, and I gelded his butt. He was a totally different horse after he was gelded. He was beautiful, well, bred, and I had hopes of keeping him intact. That changed. He's in a good home now, and has a kid to call his own. He was given to said teen after the young man claimed him from his grandma (who I had sold him to).

Generally speaking, it's a good idea to not turn your back to any horse you don't know. I'm much more careful with stallions than I am with geldings or mares (provided I haven't been warned about a specific horse). But if I don't know the horse, I'm pretty careful to keep an eye on them. It's just being safe.

My current stallion will become a gelding, if he doesn't live up to his potential. He's new, and I'm already rather attached to him (got him on Sunday). But if he doesn't deserve to keep his balls, he won't get to, and I'll geld him. He'll stay with me as a driving gelding then. But if he does live up to his potential, he'll stay a stallion. Either way, he'll be learning to drive, and I'm really excited about him.

You know the saying a good stallion makes a great gelding? Either way, I'll have a good horse! I've been kind of spoiled with stallions, and poor Hollywood has big shoes to fill!

 

[MindyLee]

I have nothing against geldings as they are perfect for someone wanting to get into minis just like mares.

BUT

I will say it dose crack me up when I see geldings for sale that any if not a lot of the info about them is nothing but how great their bloodlines are and they have a whos whos pedigree and go on and on about it. I always think to myself "who cares cause its a gelding and you cant breed it for them bloodlines now so big deal!" If I look at geldings the bloodlines are not important anymore really cause they cant breed... BUT confirmation is and thats what should be info'd and its other greats that it has because that is what would matter to me if I was looking at geldings. IMO color would come before pedigree when looking into getting a gelding

But thats my opinion....

 

[Carolyn R]

I have sat on my hands this entire topic, I guess I just have enough of a bug up my butt today that I am just now replying to this post.

The Gelding viewpoint is not whether one chooses a gelding over a mare, but is rather the thought of owners and breeders gelding a mini to show others that "yes, you can do other things with them and I so heartedly believe so that I am willing to act and not just speak about it, and this can be done with no alterior motives of breeding in sight, just producing an excellant all around mini".

I for one have very mixed feelings about this topic. Yes breed less, yes for God's sake breed selectively, and offer proper care for what you have in your care. I also am one to preech that buyers, regardless of looking for pet, show or breeding purposes, need to support reputable, responsible breeders and owners. Do you have to go through a breeder, NO, but but at least go through a responsible owner that has done their very best to learn about and care for the horse while it has been in their care.

This topic is something that should be on someones mind when considering breeding, but as much as I am for this converation, I am also troubled by it. It is a scale of weights and balances to consider. I am not new to minis, but still consider myself a newbie with only going on eight years of experience,but well over 25 years of owning horses under my belt, I am still constantly learning, as we all should be. I have tried to do everything right, keeping the high standards and care in mind, slowly purchasing one horse at a time, researching breeders, owners,bloodlines, the horse itself, conformation and disposition, and the care it has been given. My husband has been gracious enough to support me, help fund projects and I have put a HUGE amount of my own time and effort into things like building a bigger barn, larger turnout and a better program. Self equipped, meaning me, not my husband, not my family, not my friends, me and me alone, equipped with a chainsaws, power tools and accouterments of the sort, and loads of determination. Cutting trees, putting up fencing, laying stallmats, running the kabota, moving dirt and rocks that are the size of my minis and so on.

And still gloom and doom conversations like this, that are a necessary evil, make me feel like having a good cry, throwing in the towel, and packing up shop. I can only hope what I have to offer is a step in the right direction and has something to offer as a whole, if it is not, then why bother.

Edited: What drives me....determination, passion and the love of them. "Equine profit" ha, ha, ha, I think I read about that once in a fairy tale".

I appreciate this board, I respect everyones opinions, and as I said, even "gloom and doom" topics like this are a necessary evil, as depressing as it may be.

 

[midnight star stables]

I have nothing against geldings as they are perfect for someone wanting to get into minis just like mares.

BUT

I will say it dose crack me up when I see geldings for sale that any if not a lot of the info about them is nothing but how great their bloodlines are and they have a whos whos pedigree and go on and on about it. I always think to myself "who cares cause its a gelding and you cant breed it for them bloodlines now so big deal!" If I look at geldings the bloodlines are not important anymore really cause they cant breed... BUT confirmation is and thats what should be info'd and its other greats that it has because that is what would matter to me if I was looking at geldings. IMO color would come before pedigree when looking into getting a gelding

But thats my opinion....

I look at the pedigree on a gelding just as much as I would a breeding horse! Some blood lines produce great horses. If I was going to add another horse, especially if for showing purposes, I want to know where he's from and who is in his pedigree! Granted I look at a horse it's self before I give any credit to it's heritage, but I do know that there are certain horses/farms that produce horses I like. I'll usually give a Dun-Haven or Bar Z or Buckeye or Mountain Meadows or LTD horse a second glance just cause they carry that bloodline....... Sure doesn't mean I'll be writing a check!

Bloodlines and horses go much further then breeding

But thats my opinion....

 

[MindyLee]

I do want to comment about how greatful I am that this tread has started.

I consider myself a newbie even tho Ive had minis since 2004. I learn something new everyday and have posted a few coments here BUT I can truely say... that with all the different breeders, buyers, and lurkers here that have made their opninion(s), it dose help me as a small scale breeder to see what folks like yourselves are looking for in a future purchas and how you look at the sellers out ther like myself. It sucks that some take it to heart but it happens. From where I sit here at my computer and follow these type of threads. I personally learn a lot and enjoy reading them and sometimes over and over to make sure I am learning things correctly. To me this a big learning step as a small scale newbie breeder and EVERYONES opinions are much appercited here. I think this has been a great topic and have very much enjoyed reading and particapating in it.

I too strive to breed for the best and think I got some very nice horses here in my herd. I too started out with a crappy confirmation stallion and earlier in posts admitted to breeding for profitt and learned the hard way. BUT I did learn (the key word here...learn) that my boy was poo but he still lives here and love him no less, but breed with way better. If it was'nt for this website (all of it) I sure as the day is long would still be breeding him and think that all is good and still producing bad confirmation foals if it was'nt for such threads like this one and others here on the fourm. Otherwise I found 1/2 my herd from the sales board and greatful for that too as some of you are them breeders of my horses today!

 

[Eagle]

I agree

from what I have seen some of the halter horses can only do halter, not sure that should be the only goal for breeding miniature horses. I still think minis need stallion testing to get registered as breeding stallions if you want to limit and improve the registry...Friesian horses go through 90 days of testing to get accepted into the sud book, with out passing their babies can not be registered. Just a thought...

Here in Italy to reproduce a stallion you must have a "stallion station" it can be Public where he can cover outside mares or Private for just your mares. To get this "station" the authorities check your premises and check that your stallion has been approved. The first 2 times he gets approved he can only cover for a year and then if he and his offspring pass on the 3rd test he is given life approval.

All breedings are registered. No foal can acquire documents without this registration paper. All horses must(or at least should) be registered.

There are always a few idiots that don't follow the rules and breed anyway but they will never be able to sell an unregistered foal or horse as it is worthless.

It also costs about €300 a year to have a "stallion station"

 

[Raine Ranch Minis]

Here in Italy to reproduce a stallion you must have a "stallion station" it can be Public where he can cover outside mares or Private for just your mares. To get this "station" the authorities check your premises and check that your stallion has been approved. The first 2 times he gets approved he can only cover for a year and then if he and his offspring pass on the 3rd test he is given life approval.

All breedings are registered. No foal can acquire documents without this registration paper. All horses must(or at least should) be registered.

There are always a few idiots that don't follow the rules and breed anyway but they will never be able to sell an unregistered foal or horse as it is worthless.

It also costs about €300 a year to have a "stallion station"

WOW is all I have to say about that.

:shocked

 

[MountainMeadows]

Thanks Desiree - it is nice to know that 30 years of selective breeding does get noticed

Stac