Nugget

[Marsha Cassada]

More rain coming from the new storm in the Baja.  Still have a stream running down the mountain through the corral.  The trimmer had no trouble with dry hooves, for sure, last week.  I've been trying to get the boys out on the dry road at least twice a week so they are not standing around in the wet grass all the time.  My neighbor is going to come over and help me again with Nugget soon.  Just don't have the confidence any more to do it by myself.  Equine dentist is on her route up north and has me on the list when she comes back down this way.

Finally ended up taking Nugget to the vet yesterday.  He just isn't getting over the cough and runny nose.  I thought I might have to use the tractor to get the trailer out, but the ground was firm enough in that area to just back up to it with the pickup.  No fever, thank goodness.  He listened to his heart/lungs.  Suspects an upper respiratory infection.  Gave me 2 weeks of antibiotics.  Don't know if it is something he brought home from the sale, or if it is the result of this damp weather.

 

[Cayuse]

I would bet it is something he picked up at the sale.  Hopefully the antibiotics!will get him over the hump and set him right.  We have had lots of rain here, too.  But not as much as you!  We are supposed to get a northeaster over the weekend :-(.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Dentist came today. She said Nugget is five years old. He is cutting some teeth, which should irrupt in the next few months. He had sharp points. His front teeth are a little crowded which she said is merely cosmetic. Molars all good.
DD had some points also, so she did him as well. She said his canines are very worn. She has a horse that is 45! He has no molars at all. He gets senior feed and rice bran and is nice and fat.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Finished up the antibiotic yesterday. He is more challenging than I thought he would be from watching his docility under saddle at the auction. I've started lunging; he works better if I keep him close to me at the walk. If he moves too far out or goes into the trot it escalates and he loses focus. So we will walk until I feel he is ready to move faster. I got him to walk on the 12" wide board yesterday--good job, Nugget! And he is learning to stand on a pedestal. He has shaking hands down pat. He is scared of plastic bags. Yesterday he let me rub one on his face and neck for the first time. I think it is the sound of it--maybe it sounds like a snake or other predator. I took a popcorn ball out last night that was wrapped in Saran wrap. In the dark he could not see that plastic but he could hear it. He wasn't sure that morsel of popcorn was worth putting his life in danger.
Why do I keep bringing home these reactive horses? I must have a death wish...

 

[Cayuse]

Have you tried free lunging him in his paddock (if it is safe to do so) before you try to lunge him on the line? It might get the "giggles" out of his system so he would pay better attention. I have had to do this with Cappy. Five is still pretty young and he feels good now, I bet you guys just need to get over a few speed bumps and it will be good. He probably needs to learn to trust that you won't put him in a "bad spot" and that whenever you introduce him to something new/(bags and such), he can trust it is not something that will harm him.
He does sound very smart, I wish mine could learn things as quickly as Nugget has. Cappy stands on a stool. But only when Cappy feels like it, lol. If I ASK him to, he is baffled by!the!request.
Horses !

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I have heard negative things about round pen lunging. I cannot do it anyway because the corral has a shelter in the middle. But we are working on a calm, collected walk on the lunge line. When I feel he has become comfortable with that, I will go to the trot. Right now he just needs to be calm and learn to pay attention. Walked on the board again today and he went the whole length without stepping off. He still gets a little excited stepping up on the pedestal, but does back down off of it nicely now. I think all the varmints we have around here are part of the problem; it keeps the horses on the alert.

 

[Cayuse]

We have lots of wildlife too that stir up the horses. Deer they particularly dislike. The fox do not bother them at all, but turkeys are disliked and we have an abundance of squirrels that create havoc. They really don't like the squirrels at all. I think it is because they are overhead in the trees and also on the ground and the horses just don't know where to look next for them. I have had them drop out of trees in front of me when driving. PLOP!
And they rustle around in the leaves making spooky noises, too. My pasture abutts woods, so there is always something lurking. I had a doe charge me from out of the brush many years ago when I was riding. She was protecting her fawn. Scared me half to death.

 

[Northwolf]

Give him time to learn that he can trust you I have a reactive horse (Moony) that was scared about cows, traffic, trucks, garden stuff, things that are standing in fields and so on when he arrived. The first 6 months, I took him out to walks and showed him the world as much as possible. He tried to run away and panic. I did not work on his driving education until he was less scared. Today, 18 months after I got him, he's sometimes starring at scary things, but it's ok because he will not try to run away. I can drive him safely.
I think Nugget is a good boy, but he needs you to show him the world and learn how to trust you. This is something that needs more time, 2 months are NOTHING
(I believe in you! Good things will take more time I think )

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I just read this article and I believe that is what is happening with Nugget. It explains why a little cowboy kid can ride Docile Lamb/Nugget into the sale ring, and two months later I have Mr Jekyll/Nugget in my pasture.
http://method.greyhorsellc.wordpres...gjda9KGT0j4O4myOmxkynKRBwqsc8mzuRUNbKe0w-cPoE

 

[Cayuse]

Interesting article. I have seen horses with their personalities obliterated by training methods. It is sad.
Horse training should be a dance between willing partners. Not domination.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Perfectly said Cayuse Good article Marsha , thanks for sharing !

I have a TB that took nearly a year to trust me . He was obliviously hit as a youngster and was very head shy. He is fine now , but is still very cautious of new people , especially when they pat him.

I agree with Northwolf , trust takes time and something that cant be hurried along.

 

[Cayuse]

Ryan, It is interesting that you mentioned your TB took a year to regain his trust. My mom has always said it takes a solid year to get to know them, and for them to know us. She has been proven right many times over the years
I am glad your horse came around, they usually seem to if given a chance.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

I really believe that too, thats why I wanted to mention it on here for Marsha. I also believe a horse, whether it be a mini or full size horse, will definitely test the owner to some extent.

I really like what Marsha has written a few posts above re walking on a calm collected walk. When "I" feel he has become comfortable with that, I will go to the trot.

Nugget has big shoes to fill , but has the right owner to show him how its done

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Very nice walk on the lunge today. He was very calm. A few more times and I will ask him to trot. He walked on the 12" board easily. Stepping on the pedestal wasn't so good; he tried to get ahead of himself, as he thinks he knows what to do. I am reinforcing "wait". He approached the white plastic bag I was holding and let me rub it on his face.

 

[Cayuse]

That is awesome about the bag! What a good boy to let you rub his face with it. I don't know why bags are universally disliked by horses so much. Probably the noise? Maybe it sounds like snakes hissing when the plastic crinkles?

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My sister brought her grand daughter out today to play with Nugget. He had been ridden before, but we didn't know how he would do since it's been a while. She picked up his feet by herself and brushed his tail. We kept him on a lead rope at first, but then let her ride him by herself in the corral. Then we went out into the pasture and she rode him around some cones and obstacles. When we went farther away we put the lead back on--good thing as he spooked at some ornamental grass and she fell off. I think he would have bolted without the leadrope. My sister wanted me to put the bridle on him but I wouldn't--if I am going to teach him to work in harness I don't want a child pulling around on his mouth.
After she rode him, she played with him, putting the orange cones on his head like a hat. He is very friendly and nosy.

 

[MajorClementine]

Just read the article on Learned Helplessness, very interesting. The part about the arthritic horse really resonated with me. One of the Fjords we got was bought by a friend. He worked that horse hard on his farm (amish so every day in the field) for 6 months before we brought him home. He did say that a couple of times when he went to catch him to hitch him the horse would pull out of his grip and take off. He used a flying W to bring him down and "fix" that bolting behavior. This is where, I think, the LH comes in. Anyway... a couple of months after coming into our care the Fjord started limping. It didn't get better. Took him to the vet. He has bone spurs and arthritis in both front pasterns. One is MUCH worse than the other. How could he have been sound for 6 months working on the farm and now he lames up with light duty pulling? Could it be he blocked out his pain since he had learned that there was no way to get away from it? Was he trying to avoid working because of the pain when he was bolting? Was the use of the flying W reinforcing the Learned Helplessness? Something to think about. Especially since I came to the conclusion last fall that his "attitude" was due to being in constant pain. Thank you for sharing the article.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

There was a followup article on TheHorse.com about LH vs Habituation. Several points come together in my mind for Nugget. The plastic bag thing done too aggressively at first probably exacerbated the fear, as I tied it to the end of whip to use for desensitizing--as it was suggested to me by trainers. Other horses got used to it in a couple of sessions, but Nugget escalated. The lunging that was too athletic and exacting at first was bad for him. We never stop learning. I think coming out of LH makes different challenges than getting a horse that has never been worked with. Buckly had never been worked with so his reactions to training were totally different. There was no LH about him!

 

[Cayuse]

I just thought of something about the plastic bag. I wonder if Nugget had ever been shown at all. Sometimes to jazz them up they use a bag on the end of a whip. Maybe
he has experienced that before and got rewarded for the feisty behavior it produced? So he escalated because he thought he was supposed to? Probably not the case, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
They are all different, that's for sure! You are so right about there always being something to learn. Peanut teaches me something new frequently, lol. He can be quite humbling at times!
Do you have a link to that article? I would love to read it, the first one was great.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

See if this works:
https://thehorse.com/110232/habituation-vs-learned-helplessness-in-horses/