Odd situation with big horse

[hobbyhorse23]

Okay, first and foremost: OF COURSE I PLAN TO CONSULT MY VET ABOUT THIS! I am not using you guys as a substitute for proper veterinary care, I'm only asking if any of you have ever seen anything similar. Got it? LOL

Now here's the deal. Spyder, my 28 year old Arabian, has always had atrocious potty habits regarding his stall. He's got this whole huge pasture but even in the middle of summer he'd walk all the way back down to the barn just to poop in his stall.

He always pees in one place and poops in another particular place, always in the same amounts, and that never changed by so much as an inch or a ounce for 12 years.

I've noticed in the last six months that he's slowly been moving where he pees and there have been fewer and fewer stools. He's had mysterious diarrhea for years (solid stool but a lot of liquid with it) but that cleared up as soon as I started him on beet pulp in August. There have just slowly been fewer and fewer piles. I thought for weeks he was just doing it outside because I only got to see him after dark when I got off work. But then I got a day off and went out to clean his pasture and lo, there was nothing there.

Until this last week, what there was in his stall was perfectly normal in every way. Just not much of it.

He isn't eating nearly as much as he used to due to losing a few teeth and not being able to process hay so that's why I didn't worry at first about less output. It seemed logical, you know? His coat is shiny, his eye bright, his attitude cheerful and energetic.

But now I'm seeing two or three piles a day, total, less urine output, and all of a sudden the piles are absolute cowpats. He's NEVER had completely loose stools like that and nothing has changed in his diet. He doesn't seem to be drinking as much but then again he gets literally a small bucket full of water with his soaked beet pulp twice a day and soaked hay so he's getting plenty that way. No signs of dehydration at all and he's eating strongly whatever I give him.

So what on God's green earth would cause a horse to suddenly reduce his manure output by more than half for a period of probably a month so far with no sudden diet change and no other sign of a problem??

I mean it- except for that scary off-day a week ago he has been FINE. Better than fine. Now that his buddy is gone he's neighing at me instead of nickering, he trots up to the fence with all the energy of a horse half his age, and he spends all day out there playing with Kody over the fence. I feel like I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth as his stall is finally easy to clean and he's still healthy, but it worries me.

Thanks for any input,

Leia

 

[liltnt]

you didnt say what your were feeding him so this is a real shot in the dark. The big horse here is about 25 years old, I noticed it was taking him a very long time to eat his hay like 5 hours. So we talked to the vet and he had us put him on pellets, senior feed and a/m. Now zia was losing weight as well so I a sure that makes a difference. But he is doing alot better.

His poop was extremely wet, but not runny, undigested hay left in it was about an inch long and would fall apart when it hit the ground. Rather dry on top but a real wet spot on the ground.

sorry to get so discriptive but ....

on the pellets he poops smaller but ....better

I have been dubbed queen of the poop patrol.

now the only hay he gets is what the burros leave after they have finished there meals. He is a happy boy

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Yes, but what causes LESS poop? The cowpats do concern me, but I'm much more worried about the fact he's only making two or three piles a day.

His diet has not changed. He's on a can and a half (forgetting the weight right now) of Nutrena Senior with 3 1/2 cups of soaked beet pulp and his arthritis meds twice a day, and some soaked crushed grass hay just to make him happy. He wads most of it up and gums it to death but he enjoys it so I give it to him.

The beet pulp is new and I'm still moving it up every few weeks until I find his maintenance level but he's gaining weight and looking good with this much. I know the beet pulp/effectively no hay is why his poop is brown, but shouldn't he be making a normal number of piles if he's eating enough to gain weight?

 

[Critterhugger]

I'm wondering about having your vet check him for Entrolyths... arabians and minis have a higher risk of getting those.

 

[pepperhill]

I don't know what would cause less stools unless the more concentrated feed has less roughage, hence, less "output". I do know that when I started mine on the beet pulp a month or two ago they had the exact same stools as you are describing--lots of liquid around the solid. The only time I had cowpats was when one of them had a hatch of internal worms. It was only two weeks after I had wormed everyone so it wasn't my first guess, but eventually when everything else came back clear, the vet ran a sample and it was worms. ( forget which kind) The pats only lasted two days and were clearing up BEFORE I found out it was worms. We wormed everyone again and no more problem. Good luck! Linda

 

[Jetiki]

Have you checked him for sand or dirt in his system? I would also check him for worms. I am not sure where you live so being from florida myself sand or dirt comes to mind, he could be doing something goofy like licking dirt in the pasture or something when your not around to watch him. Just a thought.

Karen

 

[Marty]

OK, not that I know a darn thing but I'll just take a stab at trying to put things into perspective and just throw a few things atcha that are just coming off the top of my head. This is so tricky and these are just wild guesses and theorys.

The grass is now dead, so less output would make sense to me.

Runny poo could be the culprit of changing over from grass to hay, espeically if the hay is of good quality. Rich quality. I usually clear that up with a dose of probios or pepto.

Now I also have fed Equine Senior by Purina and Nutrena Senior in the past with horrible results on my senior horses. Diaherrea city........it was bad bad bad.

Now then, this year, I have tried Sonny on Purina Senior not having used it in years. They may have changed the formula but it's working very well now, but at first, did cause the Hershey Squirts until I found the proper amount and adjusted it accordingly.

Beet pulp that I soak and feed slopping wet has reduced water intake on some of my horses a bit and also caused runny poo so I have backed off of it and reduced the amount feeding. I found out that beep pulp here does change the plumbing quite a bit.

I don't like the sounds of that wadding up though in the mouth. That can be a recipe to choak so I would worry about that one.

He's moving around to pee now, because it may be spashing up underneath him because of the changes in the ground?????

As far as the artheritis meds, Sonny is also on a couple of items. Like any meds, possibly this is causing these "side effects" which of course is reaching and way way way out there, but if you think about it, we all take meds and have this and that happen as a reaction too. MSM makes him pee like a race horse.

Now, last but not least, you are not feeding hay which you said he cannot process. But since horses are in fact grazers, you may need to soak him something to "graze" that he can chew. I realize that some say that beet pulp can replace that grazing action and that may be so, but I would still look for another roughage source of something , maybe just a finer kind of hay, or some cubes or something like that, that he can process be it soaked or what have you.

I'm glad you are consulting with your vet on this. He'll probably run some tests to see what is going on. Hopefully, it's nothing bad that cannot be addressed. Wish you much luck and best wishes.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Thanks guys, I will check on the worms, sand, and Entrolyths (whatever those are, LOL).

Marty, just had to respond to some of these! LOL. Thanks so much for taking the time to take a stab in the dark. Your care is appreciated.

The grass is now dead, so less output would make sense to me. Runny poo could be the culprit of changing over from grass to hay, espeically if the hay is of good quality. Rich quality.

Horse is on no grass. There is no grass here. When has ANY horse of mine ever been on grass?!

They live permanently in small little dirt paddocks made that way by constant eating. Any attempt by a brave stem of grass to peek above the ground in spring is immediately met with a vicious attack by an enraged (and hungry) horse.

Hay is a year-around, three times a day food source here.

Now I also have fed Equine Senior by Purina and Nutrena Senior in the past with horrible results on my senior horses. Diaherrea city........it was bad bad bad.

Yes, I know all about you and Sonny and Nutrena.

But I've had very bad experiences with the quality of Purina and will never again feed that filth to my horses. WAAAAYYYY too much sticky molasses as well. Our Cushings horse hardly needed that, let me tell you. I have no way of checking now if Spyder's mysterious runs started when the senior feed did but we didn't notice a correlation at the time. It's an interesting thought though. Hmm...

Beet pulp that I soak and feed slopping wet has reduced water intake on some of my horses a bit and also caused runny poo so I have backed off of it and reduced the amount feeding. I found out that beep pulp here does change the plumbing quite a bit.

Interesting! It's really, really good to know that it can have different effects on different horses, that's reassuring. The cowpies were literally overnight a couple of days ago with no transition.

I don't like the sounds of that wadding up though in the mouth. That can be a recipe to choak so I would worry about that one.

Nope. Spyder has choked three or four times in the last year (never before then) but each and every time it was on dry or not-wet-enough pellets (and this was confirmed by two different vets so don't tell me it's not possible!

) Both vets said that since he is very consistent and very good about dropping the hay wads I should continue to give it to him as long as it's good and wet but they were very concerned about the pellets. That's why he now gets totally slopping wet bp and the senior is soaked until it's mush and then mixed in.

He's moving around to pee now, because it may be spashing up underneath him because of the changes in the ground?????

Stall, Marty. He does everything in his stall, remember? The deeply bedded one with rubber mats? He's been in that stall through 13 winters now and it's never changed before.

Like any meds, possibly this is causing these "side effects" which of course is reaching and way way way out there, but if you think about it, we all take meds and have this and that happen as a reaction too. MSM makes him pee like a race horse.

Poor Sonny. Spyder's been on these meds since he was 15.

Now, last but not least, you are not feeding hay which you said he cannot process. But since horses are in fact grazers, you may need to soak him something to "graze" that he can chew.

He is getting soaked hay for just that reason. He doesn't really eat it, but he sure loves to chew on it and root through it looking for something he hasn't gummed. Does my heart good to see it, and I actually worry less about him eating hay then grass.
The hay makes big wads that are presumably pokey and irritating so he spits them out, but I've seen him half-choke on grass when he's trying to graze on our walks because it makes a thin, compact, and soft little wad and he tries to swallow it. Scary! I now make him lift his head and walk around in between mouthfuls so he chews everything. That seems to work well.

Again, thanks for all the thoughts.

 

[whitney]

I have a 14.2 hand 850lb, 33 yr old Q.H. mare that did the exact same thing.

The decrease in poop is because of the decrease in roughage, less in less out.

The cow patties I cured with Ration Plus.

Water intake I cured with soaking everything she eats in water.

She gets 1 1/2 lbs of dry beet pulp, with wheat bran,

3 pounds of wrangler complete pellets,

1 pound of timothy alfalfa hay cubes.

All soaked in 4 gallons of warm water, looks like swamp muck but she LOVES it.

Oh she also gets hand ripped up grass hay that she just gums to death and spits out but it gives her something to do.

And the occassional macaroon cookie.

 

[USMCshamusmom]

Is it possible he is eating his poop? sometimes horses which are mostly on pellets or feeds that have a high molasses content will be attracted to their own poop, especially if they don't have much else to chew on. If you take a look at his front teeth and see they are mysteriously very greenish or brown, suspect he is snacking when you aren't looking! You can get enzymes to add to his feed-(its called "forbid")from jeffersvet.com which will make the poops less appealing.... hope you find the cause of his changes and that everything is OK.

 

[Black Magic]

Okay, this is a stab in the dark. But a friend that has a senior horse says that her horse always poops less, eats more in the winter. Hey, people eat more, put on a little winter weight, why not a horse too?

I have to say, I am NOT a Purina fan. I think in three years, I've tried seven different kinds of feed for 90 day periods and ended up going back to Buckeye. Also my friend with the horse that has the winter pudgies, gets alphafa cubes soaked in a bunch of water. She said, this increases the poop when she does.

JMHO... but of course, asking the vet is the right thing to do, and then, just relax... he's happy it sounds like... and if the vet isn't worried, why swet the little stuff?