Pics Added pg2 - Talk about "work" - 4 abreast team ground driving

[paintponylvr]

You sure find out where there are issues!!! And I also now know that the lines were made more for smaller mini horses than for my "mid-range" 40" shetlands. So will need to get different 4 abreast lines and work with my anxious, head throwing mare more... or for actual work, put the slightly larger, heavier Koalah back into harness when her "Bunny" is a little bit older!

The eventual goal (this year?) is to pull the forecart with a mower and a harrow. I also have a springtooth harrow with crumbler that has it's own, built in, implement seat. We still need to get that one put together - hoping to work on it tomorrow? Some pics -

As you can see - the lines are too short. I couldn't even hook them to the 4 horse evener (much less to a piece of equipment behind that!) and ground drive them. Glad that my anxious, head throwing mare isn't a kicker - several times I was in a bad spot and I knew it even before I saw the pics that my girlfriend was able to take. She DID get quieter by the end of an hour.

When we hit that "sweet spot" where there was no leaping forward on our start or hanging back on a turn and all were moving pretty much together - my heart sang and we stopped!! Honestly, not sure who was more tired. Me or all of them while we were trying toget this all figured out.

Just hooking the lines is ... intricate, interesting work. AND my books on farming don't actually show the line hookup the way that I have them, which was a BIG surprise. They mostly show only one pair being "controlled" by lines to the drivers' hands

- and the others having check straps or jockey sticks from the bit to the hames of the horse next to them. I have lines actually going to each side of each ponies bits, with only two lines to my hands. The books show several configurations but not this one. Took forever to figure it out & with the girls and me "so green" right now - not even running the lines is easy to do by oneself. Don't know that I'll ever be able to work a 4 abreast hitch by myself at least not for some time when the girls are more accustomed to staying beside each other and standing quietly while you run the lines thru all the terrets and to the bits. Any separation at all (they were all 4 tied to the horse trailer next to each other) and the lines were pulled "cattywampus" or just plain wouldn't reach the bit it needed to be snapped into). Even my "solid" mare became a frustrating problem as she wanted to insist on stepping away from her partner and then swinging her hips out.

The ties prevent them from getting too far apart while driving and from swinging completely away from each other - but don't prevent them from moving a few steps out... But it didn't work to keep the ties hooked up on breeching while putting the lines thru terrets and attaching to bit - especially the 3rd pony over from the one who had "main line" - the outside two ponies had the main lines - each then having a connection to the other three. Yes, then the snaps also became a problem - the head throwing mare was able to 2x get a bit snap hooked into the terret of her partner (doens't happen with just the pair). GLAD these girls all responded to "WHOA" and "froze" when that command given after I started ground driving them! But buckles on these too short of lines will also be a PIA. I'm going to have to take them with me to OH to get the line configuration figured out and the lengths done correctly.

A new learning curve!! Gotta

it.

My dream of 20 years ago is just coming into fuition now and it is SOOO exciting. Might have been easier if I'd found all the ponies for pairs and 4 ups at the same time and started training them all then, but it didn't work that way. In all honesty - the one filly here is just a 3 yr old and both she and the bay tobi mare have only been pair hitched a handful of times. So, this went exceedingly well!

Now just need to get all of us more driving experience in all of these different configurations.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Fascinating! Love hearing about your experiments with multiples. I'm struggling with just a pair, never had much interest in driving more than one at a time but my husband wanted a team. Then of course wasn't inclined to put in the time to make them such so it falls to me. It is very clear to me that driving a pair is not just as simple as adding another set of reins and its been a slow process teaching myself the finer points (there are few people who drive pairs around here, mostly draft hitches who do the weight pulls, not too much finesse there). I've had them hitched a couple of times but not 'right' and wasn't happy with the harness fit etc. so I am on my 3rd harness for them. I have made it my goal to get these 2 working together this season (assuming this blasted snow ever melts and the ground dries) if its all I do. They came to us 8 years ago as mostly blank slates. They both do reasonably well as singles (more time between the shafts would correct any issues that crop up from time to time) and I have ground driven them as a pair (as has my BIL and my husband) but the actual hitching and driving has been waiting for properly fitted/adjusted harness and my focused attention. Once I have them going well I will turn them over to him again, after driving a single for the past years, and enjoying it, tho, I wonder if he really wants to drive a pair any longer, the time spent hitching them may be a deciding factor for him lol. I can't complain tho, he shares my interest in horses in general and minis in particular so I am happy.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Facinating!

I tried a tandem with mine once, but they were not suitable. The feel when they are going sweetly and all the lines are straight is a great feeling though! On the tandem, the header has to be really good. On four abreast, is there one that holds them steady or plays a more important role?

(I was thinking of the scene in Ben Hur when Charlton Heston suggests to the Sheik what order to put his 4 hroses in.)

 

[paintponylvr]

ROFL!!

Thank you both for your encouragement, trust me after yesterday, it's nice!

Reignmaker - I spent a lot of time doing 10 and 15 minute "drives". When the mares finished eating one of their meals, I often just tied their halters together, slipped open headstalls on, tied a long lead around the neck of one & ran it around their butts to the neck of the other and tied it off. Then attached one line to the outside of each pony (didn't have pair lines yet and had no idea at first how to make a set that would work - did that later). It was "quick & dirty" and surpirsingly - it worked! I then drove them thru the barn, out the door down the hill to the driveway, turned a circle and back to the barn. It was contained enuff to work with them with enuff room to practice lots of stops, starts, returning to the barn and turning around and leaving again (which they didn't like).

I need to do that with the two newer mares - I think I would see a huge difference in their attitudes and in 10 & 15 minute increments add a lot of driving time - just like I did with the original pair. Hmmm...

Marsha - honestly, I can't imagine a tandem. That gives me the shudders - I don't have a clue if any of mine would work well that way or not. In pairs, they DO get to depending on each other (I think). If one is bold and the other less so - the bold one becomes the leader. But I've found that it seems to work both ways - I've also had that "leader" literally dragging the less bold or lazy one and that's not working either. I've learned to keep up in two ways. 1 - I encourage the less bold or lazy pony to "step up" (& sometimes it is constant). 2 - I use a "buck back strap" to hold that extra hard puller back. She is then pulling against the equipment with her head and slows down a bit and then I have the pair working together nicely.

With the 3 abreast last year - I switched Koalah, Bell and Bit around. I found that Koalah actually worked better on the left and Bit works better if her left eye (going blind) is next to another pony. So, went from pictured above to Koalah, Bell & Bit. I don't have any pictures of that hitch...

With the 4 abreast - friend and I were talking about it. Tomorrow, I will switch them around and see if it will work to put the two experienced mares in the center and the two green mares on the outside. Bit will then be back to having her full sister next to her, so she will be happy (happier than working with Cassie, I think). Cassie, bay tobi, may have to wait and I may have to put Koalah in her place. She's not anxious and reary like Cassie. Koalah's 2 week old filly can run loose at first, then can be tied to her dam's hames when we do pairs. For now, I don't think I want the foal "attached" while practicing a 4 abreast. When we get better, that's different. I think I last drove Koalah the end of Jan beginning of Feb, so she's out of shape and out of practice but she's just quieter, so don't think there will be any problems. GG, the darker silver with spots, is Bell's 3 yr old daughter. I'd started her by herself in a cart and then moved right into hitching her as a pair with Bell. She's just ... "O, you want me to do it this way" type of attitude right now. I was expecting her to be a bit upset yesterday and was thankful she wasn't. One that was unhappy/upset was enough.

I actually got to wondering if it would be better to have them work together with no blinders - until they all understood what they were supposed to do and how they were to work together. W/ a 4abreast hitch, I don't feel that you want any one pony to be "more important". However, I do feel that I have two ponies with more experience and yes, it does make a difference as the green ponies do work off of that.

I'm not sure that Cassie's personality/attitude are going to allow her to be a driving pony. Time will tell. She may just need time - as Bit did. She may not make a reliable driving pony. I look back and I did a lot more with both Bell and Bit driving as single ponies that I haven't done with the current "greenies". Think it will make a huge difference to just get some driving time, single, on both of them.

I haven't done much switching around with the green ponies yet. That may be important, too. Find out in the 4 across which one is happy where. LOL.

 

[paintponylvr]

O, the pole ponies need to be able to put up with the pole rubbing on their hind legs as they make turns. They also learn to step differently so the pole doesn't "catch" them on the legs while turning. The inside pony on a turn has less distance to travel and the pony on the far outside has 2x (or more?) distance to travel. The inside ponies (the two neck yoked to the pole) are always going to be traveling the shorter distances in either direction, while the two on the outside will alternate how far they travel depending on which way we are turning.

Right now, I almost feel that some of the issues will "iron out" if I attach them to the forecart or a drag. Then just go - in long looping serpentines and straight lines. But the current bridle lines that I have aren't long enuf to let me do that yet. Will be getting new lines with an additional 4 ft of length on the hand holding area and I'm not even sure how much longer on the "splits"... I want to take the mares and the lines I have up to OH with me and get it all looked at. Looks like I may be able to do that next week...

I might go ahead and get the lines to do a 4 up hitch then too. Then I'll be all set to drive a "pair tandem" (no, it's not the right terminology,

). I like driving the pairs, but don't really like the idea of a tandem. I may try it for educational purposes (for both me and the ponies) but I don't see doing it on a regular basis and I would want to do that in a definite contained area - not out in the open. Driving both a tandem and a 4-up hitch you are holding 4 seperate lines. Driving a 3 or 4 abreast, you are still handling only two lines in your hands - not really any different than a pair. I'm comfortable with that for now. It's been a long time since I rode a double bridled horse (similar to driving a tandem or 4 up - 4 reins with different purposes), so ...

 

[Renolizzie]

Paintpony -I'm always impressed by what you accomplish.

 

[dangerranger]

Congrats, Your pics are so intresting to watch! If I had two that would work as a pair Id be building a chariot in a heart beat. Ill be watching for pics of them pulling farm implements, or even minature implements! maybe something like this to start.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Your methods may not be traditional but you seem to 'get the job done' anyway. I'm fortunate in that the 2 geldings I will be working with are very attached to each other already. Where you see one you will see the other and since we've always known we intended for them to be a pair we (almost) always lead them together with Red on the right and Zeke on the left just as they are hitched. We do switch them around on occasion and they are fine with that but it is easier to remember which harness goes with which horse when they stay in one place. Red is somewhat more refined than his younger brother (who struggles with his weight like I do ) but the are the same height and length and they match their strides nicely so I believe with training they will get there. Red is also a bit more sensitive, if he is pushed or you treat him unfairly (in his mind) he will rebel, which usually means rearing but last year when asked to go single after a long (2 years) time off, he sat down, then flopped onto the ground. We had a discussion about that and eventually he did get up and drive a bit. I expect he will be more willing with his brother beside him, Zeke is more forward than Red and more ready to go. My hope is I will see him settle a bit with Red along side and Red will be more energetic (lol) The big risk is that I will need to push Red up a bit to keep pace with Zeke and he will get stressed from it. Reading your posts helps me see there are options I might not have considered for keeping them working together.

 

[paintponylvr]

Wow, lots of replies... and more in each.

Lets see -

DR - May be a LOOOONNNGGG time before my "get up and go" type ponies pull that type of implement.

Y?

Because that requires that you keep both hands on the handles of the implement to guide it, keep it in the ground at the proper depth. Most farmers, or at demos I've attended, the plowman, actually has the lines around his neck or around his neck, down over his shoulder and under the armpit on one side, the lines are one continuous piece - both hands are still on the implement handles. I don't see that happening any time soon with any of my ponies,

I've now seen two major bad runaways with this implement (SCARY!) - one with very experienced horses (years of plowing and competing at plow competitions - didn't see the beginning of the runaway and have no idea what caused it) and one with a large pair of draft mules that had been plowing but that I would consider green - especially from their reactions once dragging the plow at speed! If the 2nd pair had been my ponies, the way they were acting before hitching, I would never have hitched. I saw them 30 minutes before the runaway and determined that I wanted to stay way clear of them with my little guys. But then I've made my own fair share of mistakes hitching at wrong times, so ... I do have pics of that type of implement at some of the functions I"ve been to - NCWHMA - just not with my ponies.

I have found a supplier one state away that has that type of plow sized for my ponies for a very reasonable fee ($150) and he'd come work w/ me and the ponies to learn how to use it effectively. In talking, he agreed we weren't ready yet... He recommended at least a pair w/ ponies my size and possibly a 3 or 4 abreast - depending on the ground you'd be plowing.

Renolizzie - aaawwww....

Thank you.

Reignmaker - On non-traditional - how so? I learn things thru you too, so I'd love to know what/how you are referring to here... I know that I do a lot of stuff "non-traditional" for the Draft horse folk - based on my riding horse background. Since I also use a lot of Draft horse driving techniques, that is "non-tradional" in the other driving fields and some of those folk get really upset by it... LOL.

Yes, those are many of the things that the draft horse trainer I was working with (and still get up with for questions/help) said to do. He also recommended that I get each pony used to working in different positions and/or w/ different teammates - as much as feasibly possible. The reason - just as with me right now - so that your team (s) would not be too upset when you suddenly don't have one of the teammates (Koalah just foaled and yes, she will return to driving with her filly, but not quite yet) and also when you have a green one that you want to work with an experienced one. One of my experienced mares is actually pretty upset right now about having her "team" "broken up" - and isn't working as well as I'd like or expected with the green mare (the head tosser) that I started working her with. I'm debating keeping her with this particular mare or switching them up some more... Could be the "head tosser's" antics that are upsetting her - I'm not completely sure.

He sat down and just "tipped over"?? wow. Well, that's the 2nd time I've seen/heard that on this list. Later it would be funny. Have no clue how I'd view it at the time though...

When I took some lessons in December from a professional driver who also competes in CDEs, she recommended that I teach my ponies that when I say their names, they should just automatically step-up or move faster (meaning that I would no longer say the command "step up"). For me, that wouldn't work since I feel that I work in multiples or singles for other disciplines and I currently use their names to "signal" that I'm going to ask for something from them only - it's not always to speed up or step forward but might be to move sideways or slow down or come back a step. So that would not work in my situation - I don't think.

Also, she wanted me, right at the start, to use different commands to start my pair. The resulting confusion and frustration resulted in poor performance and upset ponies. The 2nd day of lessons, I used "my terms" and it was like night and day as the girls started in unison, stopped in unison and worked better together. Yes, there were other things that we had to work on - but my basic terminology - since I'd been using it for more than a year with this pair - wasn't part of it. I did add a couple of other words to our "commands" - but didn't change the originals. That just worked better for me...

I do some things that really upset the Draft horse community as well -several others but this one really gets them fired up - I teach all of our ponies to go faster than a walk in harness. Even my 3 abreast last year (we were galloping across a field that was nicely flat and well grassed <hay> and very, very long and wide - enough room that if the 3 had gotten upset, I had PLENTY of room not only to turn them but also to keep them going until I was ready to tell them "OK, lets' rest now that you aren't being so "silly"". The draft folk who saw me were completely freaked out). In all actuality - it's the only place I've found that I was comfortable asking them to go faster. I learned that a 3 abreast could be controlled, turned, sped up and slowed down w/o them running away. They learned that it was ok to canter/gallop when asked, no reason to panic with the different feel/sound of the equipment and that they would be told to keep going if they wanted to run after they'd already chosen to slow down on their own. Again - Y? While riding - both in teaching new riders and in training young horses - I found that the only way to learn to stop from a panic situation (usually going faster or a runaway) was to gradually teach the faster gaits and learn to come down from them - whether it be transitions back down thru the gaits or a complete stop from a faster gait - not necessarily a gallop. The "traditional" draft folk here believe the best way to keep a horse from panicking or running away is to never go faster than a walk. I don't know if that is "traditional" thinking everywhere, but here, I've also found it with the riding folk, too, which "blows me away".

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I love your harnesses- all of them!

Why four abreast as opposed to a team? I have seen plough horses three abreast and wondered the same thing, is it easier to keep them all in draught?

 

[paintponylvr]

I love your harnesses- all of them!

Why four abreast as opposed to a team? I have seen plough horses three abreast and wondered the same thing, is it easier to keep them all in draught?

Jane - THANKS!

You know, even after going to draft horse events and working with a draft horse trainer, I don't know the "real" answer to that question... Especially since there are hook ups with horses in front of the ones in front of the equipment that hook up with pulleys & rope traces rather than just regular traces and they are exerting pull as well...

ADDED - After seeing how many people it took/takes to hook up multiples this way, I doubt I will do it anyway! I am usually always by myself. I can do singles and pairs easily now. I work with them until they stand quietly for hook up while I work by myself w/o a header. I can do the 3 abreast - but I tie them to my trailer, get the tongue of the forecart between them and hitch that way, set the brake and then go unhook each pony and step into the forecart. I then swing them away from the trailer (they've all now worked to "swing" single and as pairs, so it's not too difficult). If I have to, we can also back up to clear the trailer.... The 4 abreast lines - were difficult to hook up with them tied to the trailer! I will keep working on it. Right now, I can't imagine hooking to a piece of equipment out in the open with a 4 abreast by myself, LOL.

AND here is a pic from the Pioneer Catalog of their rope/pulley system of hooking up. There are several farms in our area that use this type of system (some got theirs form Pioneer, some from White Horse Manufacturing out of PA and some just made their own...). When a hitch is done like this, I don't know that they are driven like this at their home place. I know that there is always a "crowd" of men around getting them all hooked up and watching to make sure everything is going to bo right when they first start driving/plowing at the events I've been to.

Here is a pic from one of our events - I don't have a pic of all the guys hooking them up... but here is a 6 abreast hitch of saddle type mules. I think the pair hooked to the tongue is a pair of draft mules, tho. I'm not sure how the lines are all run - I will have to check with one of the guys, now...

I now understand that most that use the 4 abreast teams use either Jockey Sticks (like a neck yoke) attached to the bit on one horse and to the hames of the horse next to him with only a set of pair lines on the pair hooked to the tongue. OR they use "check straps" - again hooked from the bit to the hames of the horse next to him or sometimes from bit to bit...

BUT my answer - Yes - it is easier to keep them in draft and get power to pull and with fewer lines to your hands with a 3 or 4 abreast hitch than to do them as a unicorn or 4 up.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Reignmaker - On non-traditional - how so? I was mostly referring to:I often just tied their halters together, slipped open headstalls on, tied a long lead around the neck of one & ran it around their butts to the neck of the other and tied it off. Then attached one line to the outside of each pony Not a method I ever seen used or even heard of before but I can see it being useful. I might just try it with these 2 geldings as a refresher before I start harnessing them again. I learn things thru you too, so I'd love to know what/how you are referring to here... I know that I do a lot of stuff "non-traditional" for the Draft horse folk - based on my riding horse background. Since I also use a lot of Draft horse driving techniques, that is "non-tradional" in the other driving fields and some of those folk get really upset by it... LOL. Yes, traditional really depends on both location and style doesn't it

Yes, those are many of the things that the draft horse trainer I was working with (and still get up with for questions/help) said to do. He also recommended that I get each pony used to working in different positions and/or w/ different teammates - as much as feasibly possible. The reason - just as with me right now - so that your team (s) would not be too upset when you suddenly don't have one of the teammates (Koalah just foaled and yes, she will return to driving with her filly, but not quite yet) and also when you have a green one that you want to work with an experienced one. One of my experienced mares is actually pretty upset right now about having her "team" "broken up" - and isn't working as well as I'd like or expected with the green mare (the head tosser) that I started working her with. I'm debating keeping her with this particular mare or switching them up some more... Could be the "head tosser's" antics that are upsetting her - I'm not completely sure.

He sat down and just "tipped over"?? wow. Well, that's the 2nd time I've seen/heard that on this list. Later it would be funny. Have no clue how I'd view it at the time though...

Well, I viewed it with more than a little disgust at the time but once we worked thro it (when I stepped back and approached the problem with patience) and got him to behave as he had been trained to I found it rather funny. Little blighter thought that if he just laid there he wouldn't need to work. Well laying there was no fun either it turned out. I prefer the sit down strike to the rearing for sure but I do believe with more consistent work I wouldn't see either, and having his brother next to him will keep him more relaxed too (I hope) Its always possible of course that instead of him taking his brothers behaviour as a cue Zeke will begin to act like him. Oh mercy lol.

When I took some lessons in December from a professional driver who also competes in CDEs, she recommended that I teach my ponies that when I say their names, they should just automatically step-up or move faster (meaning that I would no longer say the command "step up"). For me, that wouldn't work since I feel that I work in multiples or singles for other disciplines and I currently use their names to "signal" that I'm going to ask for something from them only - it's not always to speed up or step forward but might be to move sideways or slow down or come back a step. So that would not work in my situation - I don't think. Not sure I like that plan either, my use of the horses name is a pre cue if you like that warns them something is coming. Somewhat like a half halt sets a horse up for a change in speed or direction.

Also, she wanted me, right at the start, to use different commands to start my pair. The resulting confusion and frustration resulted in poor performance and upset ponies. The 2nd day of lessons, I used "my terms" and it was like night and day as the girls started in unison, stopped in unison and worked better together. Yes, there were other things that we had to work on - but my basic terminology - since I'd been using it for more than a year with this pair - wasn't part of it. I did add a couple of other words to our "commands" - but didn't change the originals. That just worked better for me... I think it always makes more sense to go with what you are comfortable using. That is what will come to you easily in tight spots and what your horses will be used to reacting to from previous handling. After all its not like they know the language, they just recognize the sound to mean whatever you have shown them it means. Hardly fair to change it on them and expect them to respond well.

I do some things that really upset the Draft horse community as well -several others but this one really gets them fired up - I teach all of our ponies to go faster than a walk in harness. Even my 3 abreast last year (we were galloping across a field that was nicely flat and well grassed <hay> and very, very long and wide - enough room that if the 3 had gotten upset, I had PLENTY of room not only to turn them but also to keep them going until I was ready to tell them "OK, lets' rest now that you aren't being so "silly"". The draft folk who saw me were completely freaked out). In all actuality - it's the only place I've found that I was comfortable asking them to go faster. I learned that a 3 abreast could be controlled, turned, sped up and slowed down w/o them running away. They learned that it was ok to canter/gallop when asked, no reason to panic with the different feel/sound of the equipment and that they would be told to keep going if they wanted to run after they'd already chosen to slow down on their own. Again - Y? While riding - both in teaching new riders and in training young horses - I found that the only way to learn to stop from a panic situation (usually going faster or a runaway) was to gradually teach the faster gaits and learn to come down from them - whether it be transitions back down thru the gaits or a complete stop from a faster gait - not necessarily a gallop. The "traditional" draft folk here believe the best way to keep a horse from panicking or running away is to never go faster than a walk. I don't know if that is "traditional" thinking everywhere, but here, I've also found it with the riding folk, too, which "blows me away". Well I'd find that a bit unreasonable too. Just doesn't make sense to me, any horse can, if the situation is right, begin to run and if they haven't ever done so that in its self can create a panic. I have seen more than one saddle horse who on first being asked to canter, even after being under saddle for a bit, begin to buck because the saddle /rider feels different and sounds different at that speed. I do have to admit tho that for years I discouraged all my driving horses from ever going faster than an extended trot. The first time my husband let one of them canter in harness I was horrified, lol, I told him he had better get that horse back under control and that it was not good for their training to break from the trot. LOL Now I have had to explain to him that I have had time to rethink that and I believe they should all have experience at faster gaits so if they get to running in fear it will not be compounded by the terror of that cart flying along behind them. I am fortunate that I have a small arena to let the singles learn this at first and a big open field with plenty of hills so that we can take the team out and show them that even together they needn't fear speed. The hills will help if they do slip into a bolt as they can run without issue until they can be gradually be brought back down to a controlled gait. That should I hope keep us all safe and reduce the stress for the horses. Its not that I expect them to bolt since they have both cantered in harness as singles but I like to plan for worst case scenarios.

 

[paintponylvr]

THANKS, Reignmaker!

Neat and very explanatory answers to my post. I had to laugh when you pointed out what you felt was "untraditional"... I was a little worried with an "o, gee - what now" type of take on it before your explanation.

Here's mine as to how the "quick and dirty" driving came about -

I have to laugh - the first time I thought I'd try just "throwing them together" - I was out in the pasture, the barn seemed like a long ways away, and I had two ponies to bring in. SO, I tied the halters together and used the long leads to step behind them and start "driving". Woof! Spent more time untangling them (one was already ground driving, the other really hadn't been started yet), then getting anything accomplished. The one mare kept insisting that she turn and face the other mare or better yet, me. I remember thinking then - "this is crazy... how does anyone EVER drive a pair???". So I put that on a back burner. That was Bell and Koalah (kept turning around) in January 2010.

I started taking lessons with the draft horse trainer mid-April 2010.

I was VERY surprised and a little "put out" when the trainer I was taking lessons from did the same thing one day (the first day I drove my girls as a pair) on June 29th. He just used a cord he'd made to tie them together at the bit. Didn't have seperate lines or pair lines, so made a loop out of the 100 ft clothesline cord he'd had me ground driving in (wanted to lighten my touch and prove to me that you could be 50' away from your driving horse and still accomplish start, halt, sidepass and back up) and attached one side to the outside of each pony. They were both harnessed with my home made "pleasure harness" and I didn't have any short straps - so he took one of my leadropes, tied it to the breast collar ring on outside of one mare, around her haunches & back thru the breeching on other pony, around her haunches and to the breast collar ring on the outside. Neither mare was really a head tosser so he wasn't concerned about the bit connection (lots of studying later, I now know there are a lot of draft folk that will attach horses bit to bit - though most light horse folk say that's a "no-no".).

Then we complicated it even more - we added Bell's filly (GG - now driving too - see other posts, LOL!):

I think all he wanted was to show me it could be done and also to get them started. Neither of us realized that we'd spend a lot of time - both that session and in future sessions doing the same thing.... I did make myself a set of pair lines (boy that took some work!) and another time or two we used his larger lines (boy that was kinda nice!) before I eventually got my whole work, pairs harness bought and usable in March 2011...

The pics above were taken on 29 June (the foal, GG, is 19 days old - her 1st of many trips away from home). The pic below was taken on 21 September - 2 months later with his lines. They are actually attached to what he calls his "surf board". I'd been ground driivng them at home - both as a pair, and singley. Bell has been hitched and driving by herself and Bit (blaze faced mare) has been hitched and driven but she took much longer to get going as everything upset her especially when she was by herself. She is not a pony that would have settled and been ready to drive calmly if she'd been sent to a trainer for just 90 days. She took almost 10 months of regular 5x week ground driving and then hitching and driving sessions before she started being a reliable driving pony w/o screaming, pawing, dancing or <gasp> rearing... The weeks she only got worked 2 or 3 x - you could sure tell! Even driving her "quick and dirty" made a huge difference - in fact that's what I spent a lot of time doing with her to get her to stop being so nervous by herself and to quit being so "barn sour". I learned what it took to correct and how to deal with her dives towards the barn. I have never gotten her used to driving single in a metal ez entry cart - she simply comes unglued the mintue it starts making "metallic noises". She's quiet and steady in the wooden sulky (and a HOOT to drive - yeehaw, lets go!!) ... and still best as a pair - 3 years after starting to ground drive her in January 2010.

There was one week that he simply wanted me to work them together so many times - even if only 10 mintues long - and no matter how i tried to work out the schedule, unless I got up at 4 am to do everything (i worked every day that week while my co-worker was on vacation) which I didn't want to do, I couldn't accomplish what he said my "home work" was... So instead of getting up that early, I didn't groom and harness them. Just did what I'd stated in the previous post - it WORKED. And what a difference when I went to that next lesson! I had "driven" them every day that week and it showed, LOL. That type of work is what I've referred to in other posts/threads as "quick and dirty" driving, LOL.

I also used it a lot with my yearlings in the fall of 2010 - it's a way to work with them doing something a little different. Instead of taking the time to fully groom and harness them (yes, they do still need harnessing time, but...), I'd slip a headstall over their halter, hook the lines to the bit and then just ground drive them around in the barn - while the other ponies were eating. I'd spend sometimes only 5 - 10 mintues at a time with each of them but it really worked out well. I've not used that technique with some of the others recently and when I was trying to figure out why things weren't going as smoothly I went back to my notes on the others and realized that those 5-10 minute sessions REALLY added up as experience and time in the lines. Also spent that time practicing leaving the group, leaving the barn, turning around and going back into the barn, all the way thru the tieup/feeding area again and out the other side barn door. They learned what "go forward" meant and that it was ok to leave the barn doors. Then I'd return that pony back to it's bucket, and work the next one. I changed who I did first - so they all had practice leaving their feed before they were done eating and working quietly. Sometimes, after work, I wanted to work up to 3 ponies and it would be 9/10 pm and I didn't want to spend the time to groom them first. OR I didn't have harness that fit some of my really tiny ones yet and this really worked - when the harness was ready, we literally went to the next step and it was soooo ez! It was also a quick and easy way to fit in "driving time" when it was raining. While a storm raging outside, I could "drive" around the obstacles in the barn and thru the feeding area. It wasn't a lot of space, but it was enough... This also helped me a lot in a contained area - learning how to use my hands on a green and fresh pony to keep them straight and working and to turn and stop and back up. It was very, very simple later to translate what I learned in very short but memorable sessions into working with the fully harnessed ponies with the lines run thru the terrets properly. I also had the advantage of having several ponies at about the same level at the same time - they did not all work the same or take the same encouragement to get forward movement. A huge learning lesson that was awesome for me personally...

 

[paintponylvr]

I made a "fast run" up to OH last week. Left Wednesday mid-morning and got up to Dover by 9:13 pm (held up for more than an hour by a BAD accident 25 miles south of Charleston, WV). For the first time, I took ponies up with me - with my harness (4). Took care of the girls in the trailer, google the directions from the hotel for both Pioneer and Fairview and then crashed "hard"... Because my wagon needed some work on it, I took it to Pioneer Manufacturing in Dalton (20 miles from where I spent the night) and then from there went to Fairview Country Sales in Millersburg (13 miles from Pioneer).

In order to figure out how to do the lines, I harnessed the mares up. Found out, I'd run the lines wrong BUT part of the problem was that one of the sets of lines had been put together "backwards"... Once it was fixed by the shop (if I'd figured it out or known, I could have done it myself...but this is one case where the "straps were just a tangle", LOL!). After putting it all together correctly, the lines were run using the center pair as the main driving ponies (they'd be the ones hooked to the tongue. I'd had the lines run with the two outside ponies having the main lines). It fit and worked - and first the one gentleman (Merle) ground drove my girls and then I did. Well his experience showed - he got them to do things fresh off the trailer that I didn't get them to do quietly after 30 minutes of ground driving. BUT he complemented the work they'd done and WAS very surprised that it was literally only the 3rd time the lines had been hooked up for a 4 breast and they were "working" well together... Especially with the bay/white mare only having a total of about 15 hitches total so far (my head tosser) and I can't get over the number of times he "cooed" over GG (3 yr old mare who has also only been hitched as a pair about 6 times, but also driven a total of 6 times single to a cart - so 12 actual hitches pulling wheeled vehicles).

The "warm fuzzy glow" is still with me - 3 days later!

They repaired a gig saddle from a harness they didn't originally make, and I picked up mine and my girl friends' pleasure style harness fashioned after the marathon type of harness. Also discussed proper care of the collars (cleaning/oiling) as I hadn't really found out and mine need more help than what I've done already...

They did punch holes in the lines and made 2 buckled extension lines (that would form a loop from one line to the other once buckled in). One extension is 10' and the other is 15'. Haven't tried them yet...

Then reloaded the girls' and the harness, stopped in Mt. Hope at Mrs. Yoder's Kitchen (amish buffet - YUM) before heading towards home. Ate too much and that's a bad thing when you are driving by yourself! Fought a couple of times with that ol' "sleep dragon"... but an extra stop or two helped. Left around 1:15 pm and made it home at 10:50 (missed my hubby tho who had to leave for work)... Unloaded and fed teh girls and the rest and fell into bed around 1 ish? Then back up at 6 ish to do chores again before the farrier arrived...

Will be making a run back up to OH on Mother's Day weekend - picking up the wagon that will be done at Pioneer and continuing up to West Unity OH for the Taylor Pony Farm production sale. I've wanted to go several times in the past years and just couldn't put it together, so I'm kinda excited. Won't be buying any ponies - I'm full! BUT they purchased quite a group of mares from Henry Siemers before he passed away - and have several ponies related to mine that I want to see/get pictures of... He has a daughter of my "main" driving mare Bell that I REALLY want to see and get pics of. He sold another daughter of hers 2 years ago and the dam of my little KoKo last year (sad face - I'd have loved to have purchased her!)... Our little cremello filly has a full brother on the sale and he does still own their dam (pics!!! I hope!). Even though I will be on the road on Mother's Day - I will have two of our 3 daughters with me. Neither were able to make any of the trips I took last year and they are both looking forward to it.