PLEASE EVERYONE HELP ME

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miniwhinny

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Since Twoie has been sick I've been doing a load of research on mini's.

Yesterday I was talking to one of Fort Dogde's Vets. Fort Dogde is a division of Wyeth (sp) which is a huge drug company ( I think they make Advil amongst other things) Anyhow in our talk it turns out that they have done NO testing on miniature horses and vaccinations. The FDA requires they test on full size horses and that's all. The vet said he knew that mini's were diferent and had different metabolisms than big horses but no tests or research has ever been done and non was planned. I told him that when we worm, we worm for size. Vets prescribe meds based on weight but vacciantions designed for 1200lb horses were given at full dose. He knew my frustraion and agreed.

I've read a lot about people thinking mares can abort after various shots. Do they? I want to find out. I NEED to find out for all of our mini's. If I can do research proving it's all a myth then we can give shots without worry. If they shots are hurting our mini's and I can prove that I can get my vet to submit the information to the drug companies and maybe we'll finally have the testing that they need to get things changed.

This is what I need from ALL of you.

When you give a shot to your horse I need...

To know the

date

shot given and brand name

sex

age

height

weight (if known)

If bred I need to know how far along.

Neck or butt

after the shot are there any side effects at all during the week following.

PLEASE be honest and PLEASE let me know. I need to know if there are no problems just as much as if there are problems so I can plot all the results.

The drug companies aren't going to do research on our little friends but we together have the power to start the ball rolling.

ML...if this can be pinned for a while that would be awesome.

My e-mail address is [email protected] Please take the time to help me help our minis. Thanks

P.S. Twoie didn't abort because of a shot..incase anyone was wondering.
 
Talking to Fort Dodge is a joke. They dang near killed my entire herd a few years ago. They paid for the mess they made here. Everyone thought I was nuts, until the proper tests were made and the contaminated meds given my horses were proved to be contaminated directly from Fort Dodge. I would never buy any of their products ever again.

FDA's March 31, 2004 "Warning Letter" to Ft. Dodge

(edited with highlights/bold type/italics, for emphasis):

FDA Home Page | Search FDA Site | FDA A-Z Index | Contact FDA

Department of Health and Human Services

Public Health Service

Food and Drug Administration

Kansas City District

Southwest Region

11630 West 60 Street

Lenexa, Kansas 66214

March 31, 2004

HAND DELIVERED

WARNING LETTER

Ref. RAN 2004-06

Mr. E. Thomas Corcoran, President

Fort Dodge Animal Health, a Division of Wyeth, Inc.

9401 Indian Creek Parkway, Suite 1500

Overland Park, KS 66210

Dear Mr. Corcoran:

On December 1-12, 2003 Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Investigators performed an inspection of your veterinary pharmaceutical manufacturing operation known as Fort Dodge Laboratories, Inc., located at 800 5th Street, N.W., Fort Dodge, Iowa 50501. This inspection revealed serious deviations from the current Good Manufacturing Practice (cGMP) regulations, Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, Parts 210 and 211 (21 CFR 210 and 211). These deviations cause your drug products to be adulterated within the meaning of Section 501(a)(2)(B) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act). Section 501(a)(2)(B) of the Act requires that the methods used in, or the facilities or controls used for, the manufacture, processing, packing, and holding of drugs conform with cGMP to assure that such drugs meet the requirements of the Act as to safety, and have the identity and strength, and meet the quality and purity characteristics, which they purport or are represented to possess.

Deviations observed during the establishment inspection include, but are not limited to the following:

1. The Quality Assurance Auditing Staff failed to fully follow established Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) 81-003-14 with regard to the auditing of personnel working in the aseptic core. The audits performed have not identified deficiencies in the systems designed to prevent microbial contamination of drug products purported to be sterile. [21 CFR 211.22(d)]

2. Employees working in the sterile manufacturing area and sterility suite lack appropriate training in aseptic techniques and aseptic conduct. In addition, these employees have failed to follow established SOPS designed to prevent microbiological contamination of drug products purported to be sterile as evidenced by FDA’s numerous inspectional observations. The inspectional observations include an employee entering the Class [redacted] filling suite with exposed skin between the hood and mask. This same employee was observed to be wearing safety glasses when the Gowning Procedures for the Parenteral

Sterile Filling Area SOP 14-011-12 specifically states in bold letters that safety goggles are to be worn. Forceps used to remove fallen vials were brought out of the Class [redacted] room area into the Class [redacted] area and back into the Class [redacted] area. Employees in room [redacted] aseptic filling room exhibited inappropriate aseptic conduct as evidenced by the observation of rapid movement throughout the Class [redacted] filling room. An operator was observed to reach over uncovered vials being loaded onto the turntable while he was removing vials that had fallen over. The plastic curtains that surround the Class [redacted] area, which are intended to protect the product from contamination, were displaced leaving gaps which could affect air flow in the Class e area. An operator in the sterile tilling suite was observed spraying her fingertips with isopropyl alcohol before collecting personnel environmental monitoring samples from her fingertips. The above-referenced observations reveal significant problems in the training of the employees who perform activities in the sterile core. [21 CFR 211.25(a), 21 CFR 211.28(a), and 21 CFR 211.113(b)]

3. The environmental monitoring systems in the small volume parenteral manufacturing and filling areas are deficient in that your firm has not performed a scientific assessment to identify appropriate environmental monitoring sampling sites during the actual manufacturing and sterile filling operations that could pose the most microbiological risk to the products manufactured. Inspectional observations include failure to perform air sampling in the area near the vial turntable to assess the condition of the air during manual loading of vials. Environmental monitoring of personnel was not performed immediately after a significant intervention into the Class [redacted] area. Equipment such as forceps, carts, and tools used during the filling operation a was observed being sprayed directly over the [redacted] located in the Class [redacted] area during the media fill. This occurred after intervention through the plastic curtains that surround the Class [redacted] area and after Rodac sampling of the plastic curtains was performed. Environmental monitoring for viable organisms in the manufacturing area is done in the center of the room at times when there is no activity in the room. [21 CFR 211.113(b)]

4. No evaluation has been performed to show the adequacy and efficacy of the cleaning and disinfection process used in parenteral filling room [redacted] as specified by SOP 14-014-08 [21 CFR 211.42©(10)(v)].

5. Investigations of a batch failure or any of its components processed in the aseptic processing area did not extend to other drug products that may have been associated with a specific failure or discrepancy. The heat exchanger used in the Small Volume Parenteral manufacturing rooms [redacted] and [redacted] was found to be contaminating the water for injection (WFI) with bacteria. The failure investigation did not extend to reviewing the possible impact on other previously manufactured drug products. In addition, the heat exchanger continued to be used to manufacture other parenteral products after the equipment was identified as being contaminated. Furthermore, the filter integrity test procedure outlined in SOP 14-177-01 does not specify a limit on the number of times a filter can be flushed or rewetted. [21 CFR 211.192 and 21 CFR 211.42©(10)(vi)]

6. All established procedures for production and process control for manufacturing of pharmaceuticals are not followed and documented at the time of performance. For example, during the filling procedures for Factrel®, Lot 431334, the [redacted] air sampler was not placed in the location designated by SOP 14-017-21. In the Package and Product Integrity Examination established in SOP 14-059-10 specifies that each vial will be visually examined to assure the integrity of the filled and sealed products. During the establishment inspection, one of the analysts assigned to perform the visual inspection was observed to look away from the line on several occasions thus allowing other vials to pass the inspection site. [21 CFR 211.100(b)]

It is our assessment that the deviations listed above and discussed with your firm’s senior management are significant and are a reflection of weaknesses in one or more of the systems designed to control the manufacture of veterinary pharmaceuticals purported to be sterile.

The cGMP deviations noted during the December 2003 establishment inspection, where the firm’s employees failed to follow Standard Operating Procedures, do not appear to be isolated events. On November 12, 1999, your firm recalled a lot of Synovex Plus (Trenbolone Acetate and Estradiol Acetate) because it was released for distribution despite failing content uniformity testing. On or about April 30, 2002, Fort Dodge Animal Health sent a letter to FDA’s Center for Veterinary Medicine's (CVM), Division of Compliance requesting the rework of one lot of Synovex H (Testosterone Propionate, Estradiol Benzoate) because the release assay showed that the product potency was approximately 10% below the labeled claims.

It should also be noted that similar rework requests were made for products manufactured at the Fort Dodge Laboratories, Riverside Drive location. On or about April 15, 2002, Fort Dodge Animal Health sent a letter to CVM’s Division of Compliance requesting rework of one lot of Torbutrol Tablets (Butorphanol Tartrate) because the tablets failed average weight testing. The firm had made a similar request during November 1999 to rework a previous lot of Torbutrol Tablets for a similar failure. On or about May 2, 2002, Fort Dodge Animal Health sent a letter to CVM’s Division of Compliance requesting rework of one lot of EtoGesic Tablets (Etodolac) due to tablet chipping and cracking. The firm made a similar request for three other lots of EtoGesic Tablets on or about May 30, 2001.

The commonality regarding the above referenced reworks is that the firm’s requests stated that personnel training and experience were factors in the product quality as well as failure to follow Standard Operating Procedures.

We reviewed your firm's’s response to the FDA-483 observations dated January 14, 2004 and signed by Michael Mlodzik, Associate Director, Pharmaceutical Regulatory Affairs. We acknowledge that your firm has made some changes and provided additional training to your Quality Assurance Auditing Staff as well as to the employees that work in the sterile core in response to FDA’s inspectional observations. Your firm has revised twenty-two SOPS associated with the sterile core operation, personnel aseptic conduct, environmental monitoring, microbial testing for the water for injection (WFI) system, filter integrity testing, packaging, and product integrity visual examination. Several of the aforementioned SOPS are viewed as critical to achieve cGMP compliance for an aseptic pharmaceutical manufacturing facility. The proposed corrections will be verified during the next establishment inspection.

The above identification of violations is not intended to be an all-inclusive list of deficiencies at your facility. It is your responsibility to assure adherence with each requirement of the Act and its implementing regulations. Deviations from the cGMP regulations were noted on a FDA Form 483 that was issued to and discussed with Dr. Vickie L. Hall, M.S., Ph.D., Vice President of the Iowa Operations and other members of the staff at the Fort Dodge location during a close-out meeting held on the final day of the inspection. A copy of the FDA Form 483 is enclosed for your information.

You should know that these violations might result in FDA taking regulatory action without further notice to you. These actions include, but are not limited to, seizure and/or injunction. Also, other federal agencies are informed about certain Warning Letters issued by FDA so they may consider this information when awarding government contracts.

Please inform this office, in writing, within fifteen (15) working days of receiving this letter of the steps you are taking to correct these deviations. If the corrective actions are going to extend past fifteen days, please include in your response a detailed and specific timeline for the completion of your actions. In addition, please contact the District Office to schedule a meeting regarding your response to this letter. The written response should be delivered at the meeting. At this meeting, it is anticipated that discussion will be held regarding corrective actions taken by your firm, the effectiveness of these actions, and the status of sterile drug products manufactured under the conditions found during the inspection.
 
Since Twoie has been sick I've been doing a load of research on mini's.Yesterday I was talking to one of Fort Dogde's Vets. Fort Dogde is a division of Wyeth (sp) which is a huge drug company ( I think they make Advil amongst other things)
Yes they even make the Arthritis drug I was on for over a year Enbrel. I trust them for sure and I am right now in the middle of giving shots to my mini, His First shots. And I use FD and will not switch to any other drug companies as they have been so long now and vets use them as that is what mostly they get in my area. Any horse can have a reaction just like any person can have a reaction to meds.

I nearly died 2 years ago because of the medicine Methotrexate, Shut down my liver and kidneys. Never to take that drug again. But the same thing goes for animals and of them can get a reaction from ANY vaccine at Any time.it just happens sometimes. But you won't know that till you actually use the drug from said companies. But it is not the fault of the company it just that some people can have reactions to the medicine just like animals can , no fault of the drug company itself. Unless they was a bad batch or something but that is so far and in-between but does happens. And that is unfortunate. But as all things all in a huge company just look at what is happening to the Dog and Cat food industry right now. And how many brands that are in those recalls. But after this all gets cleared up are people going to stay clear of what it now 35 brands maybe even more? No they will go back to them just because it does cover such a huge amount of brands.
 
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I have heard from alot of horse people that they have had a lot of problems with Fort Dodge and had advised not to use that brand. Thankfully, my vet knows this too and will not use the Fort Dodge vaccines. No sense in taking a known risk on my little ones.
 
You might get the information privately, however over the years, it seems that those who use Ft Dodge "and don't have problems" are very unhappy when Ft Dodge vaccines are questioned.

Personally i have switched brands with wonderful results.

My vet does "carry" Ft Dodge and we ordered the other brand for me.

My vet said she would not give Ft Dodge with the reactions I've had in the past, so we agreed on the switch.

Not one sore, stiff or miserable horse after their vaccines since the switch.

So, maybe I was "unlucky" and the batch was bad, all those times before, or perhaps it's just the carrier they use.

But I sure worry a lot less about vaccines now, whether for pregnant mares, or young or old.

In my mind it's a bit like the pet food thing, they are only contributing it to 16 deaths, that were proven to the company's satisfaction, that doesn't mean there weren't more not proven to the company satisfaction.

Numbers do translate into dollars lost, in such a market.

For those who never have a stiff, sore horse who goes off feed, that's super I would keep doing what you're doing. That's why i switched and I will keep doing what I'm doing, and worrying less about vaccinating.

After all Vaccinating is the important thing here, not the "brand".
 
In my mind it's a bit like the pet food thing, they are only contributing it to 16 deaths, that were proven to the company's satisfaction, that doesn't mean there weren't more not proven to the company satisfaction.

Numbers do translate into dollars lost, in such a market.
I totally agree with this statement. Talk to small animal vets and they will tell you the numbers affected are way more then 16...

I personally will always opt for anything other then Ft Dodge when given a chance. My old vet her sister was also a vet only on the research side and after hearing things from her.. both my old vet and myself opted to find something other then Ft Dodge.
 
i also had a total herd reaction to fort dodge shots and like Marty they paid my exspenses also. I know a lot of people on this forum give the same shot my herd reacted to. I was told by Ft dodge that the packaging said not for minis or ponies which my vet proved it did not and still does not say not for minis or ponies. I was a huge ft dodge fan until it happened to me. Martys happened right before mine and I wish I had listened to her. Would have saved me a ton of emotional and financial stress
 
I also will not give the pnuemabort shot. The time I gave it, I waited until the 9 month shot and the mare foaled within the week :new_shocked: But not before she had a terrible reaction! It's my opinion if the mare can't carry the foal herself, being fed all the best feed I can get and out getting excercise, then she isn not meant to carry a foal. I won't mess with mother nature.

I also don't use Fort Dodge and neither does my vet. I think the brand we use is Merrian?? I can't remember... I don't vaccinate very often. And only my show horses. My other horses don't go anywhere, and are all healthy as a horse! I'm not messing with things, since they work for me.
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I will not use a Fort Dodge product~~ PERIOD! Most vets use them, because they are reasonable priced shots for them to buy. I have used 2 brands of shots and have not had a reaction from either one of them, They are Prestige, and Intervet. Also, another things to consider is WHERE you buy your shots, F.D. vaccines, are definitely readily available, in various "farm" stores, BUT you dont know how they have been handled. They could of been sitting out in a box out of refrigeration for days and then put into there coolers for sale. Sorry, but I just dont trust buying like that, and will be sticking with my 2 brands. Corinne
 
I wanted to use a different brand of west nile shot other then fort dodge as I had some mild reactions in a couple. So I got Merill (sp) west nile vacs 9 horses had temps over 103.5 one was rushed to vet almost died. The vet said it wasnt from the west nile shot, the reaction was 2 hrs after the shot at 8 pm good thing I check and recheck everyone after shots. 500 bucks later he is fine. He will never get another west nile shot. It was the worst thing I had ever seen.
 
I used Fort Dodge EWT vacs in I think 2003. And thank goodness I had given shots in the butt and not the neck,, all of my minis had a reaction and where very sore and stiff. Stupid me gave the next 6 month EWT's and had the SAME thing happen again,, I figured somehow the first time it was something I did wrong or bad shipping or just plain bad luck. I then switched to Intervet and have never had another reaction or problem with their vacs.

I did give a Rhino shot to one of my minis in I think 2002 and 2 weeks later, she aborted,, but I cant for the life of me remember the manufacturer or the brand. NO more rhino shots for me.

Angie
 

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