POLL CROSS ENTERING OF ASPC/AMHR HORSES AT SAME SHOW

[Belinda]

This is coming up at the Spring board meeting , just wanted to see what everyones thoughts are on this were , please keep it nice.LOL !!

This would allow double reg. ponies to show in both shetland classes and mini classes at the same show..

 

[ohmt]

I voted no-i think it should be one or the other, though I do see the benefits of possibly bringing more revenue to shows.

 

[muffntuf]

No. I don' think this should be allowed - choose one or the other.

 

[squeaky]

Having a double registered mini, it has crossed my mind about allowing cross entering at shows. While it could potentially bring in more revenue for shows, I think it is a bad idea. I agree with trace, that you should decide which breed you want to be for the weekend. I also think that by allowing this cross entering, people are going to start requesting that the cross entering between driving classes be taken away. Not to mention that the amount of classes a horse would be competing in would double (i.e. go from 5 classes in one day to 10 classes) and I think that would have a negatve effect on our show horse's health.

JMO.

Amanda

 

[LaVern]

i can't say how much I appreciate Belinda for telling us about this. Thank you so much.

Which ever way it goes, at least we knew about it.

I am so against this. Just another nail in the coffin of the Straight B miniature horse.

When is someone going to come up with something nice for the the Straight AMHR Miniature Horse, anything for us to hang on to. Or maybe it is just too late.

Some one on facebook also said something that made me think. Every-time we do something that makes it more advantageous to have a short shetland, it makes it less advantageous to have a tall one. I had never thought of that.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

IMO if this passes, which I hope it doesn't then they should make Congress to where you have to qualify like you do for Nationals. I think it would only be fair. Also you would have to pay to show 2 different horses even tho your just showing 1 its still doing paperwork on 2. I think this is going to far IMO.

 

[dannigirl]

I agree with Jamie (JMS Miniaturea) in that they definitely should have to pay for two totally different animals at a show if this is allowed. What I am wondering is the responses here are all against it (I voted 'no' also) and there are currently equal number of yes and no votes. I am curious why you voted yes. Maybe there is a really good reason that many of us are unaware of.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

The only reason I see why AMHR/ASPC breeders would want this is so they can earn HOFs and awards for both in AMHR and ASPC. Even though you can still do that its just tougher if you have to choose one or the other.

I can sort of understand if Congress you had to qualify to show at but you don't.

 

[bevann]

I am very much against this.I have never liked the idea of permitting an equine to be registered as both Shetland and Mini.I call them Sheminis.Make up myour mind .Is it a shetland or is it a Mini?I'm sure I will be flamed.that's just my opinion.

 

[squeaky]

Bevann - Minis are a height breed, so techincally, if a tenessee walker measured 38" then they could have (before they closed the books) been registered as a mini. I am not flaming you at all, just explaining it a little differently, which I am sure you have heard enough of. Minis have come a long way in breed type in the past few years, and it is now obvious to tell the difference between a shetland and a mini. In the judges clinic, they showed photos of minis, classic shetlands and foundation shetlands. There is certainly a difference between each division and I think that by allowing this cross entering, then we will mess up that breed type that all of the breeders (like Lavern) have worked so hard to get into the miniature genetics.

Again, JMO.

 

[MindyLee]

How come the miniatures dont become a breed then? We breed them as a breed. I was wondering if you take a horses entire pedigree as far as it can go... look at all the heights in there and if its 70% or more under 34", why not make it a breed. Im sure there bugs to work out in doing so, but as for me, I will never own/breed for B size or shets or mixs. Im sure Im not the only one. I like them tiny and correct, so thats what I will stick with. Nothing wrong with biggies, just not my style. I guess if I was to own/show a B horse, I sure dont want to compeate against a shetland nor do I in a A class as folks are scaling them down. I guess I always pictured minis and shetlands then ponies then horses all my life. Now everything is starting to be confusing and all look the same. I have a friend who has a shetland that she calls a mini. To me its a pony as it looks like it can eat my tiny minis for lunch. Totally diff looking in everyway. jmo...

 

[disneyhorse]

Just to add some information to this, since many mini people don't know:

Exhibitors WOULD be paying for "two different horses" at the show in a situation like this.

The Modern Shetland is often double registered as a Show Pony, and exhibitors can show in both classes at one show... They can show their pony in ASPC Modern Stallion Halter and then later in ASPR Stallion Halter.

When I enter my own ASPC/ASPR registered horse, I send in two separate entries and get two back numbers... And it's the same horse.

So yes, would be extra revenue for the shows.

 

[disneyhorse]

I do find some value in the comment about overtaxing a horse showing in double the classes.

However, shows offering both class lists are typically multiple days. So there are breaks between the classes. At our local mini shows, the show is one day only.

I had a mini Pleasure/Roadster horse who showed in EIGHT back-to-back driving classes... They (ladies, gentlemen, ammy, open and stakes) were all clumped together after halter. So there is no perfect world there.

Qualifying for Shetland Congress would be fine... But we are not talking about making Shetland classes mandatorily offered. Just being able to cross enter at one show. In our area, the local mini club does not preference Shetlands at all... So much so that we don't even have an Area show.

 

[dannigirl]

I just got a private message from someone that also had a couple of points. I will share them with you. First, she makes the point that some areas only have very few shows within 6 or 8 hours of many exhibitors. With the cost of fuel, exhibitors can't go to a lot of distant shows and allowing entries in both divisions will allow them to get experience for their ponies before congress as well as qualifying for nationals. Yes, showing is similar, but there are enough differences that some actual showring experience as a pony is benificial.

Second, there may be legal issues. If you have the papers, you should be able to show your mini/pony. This is especially true since there is already an option to show your shetland pony and show pony at the same show. What if someone decides to pursue this legally? Who would win? I am not sure the club would win that.

So there is a lot more to consider in this thing than just personal feelings.

Now I need to go rethink this thing through. I am thinking that maybe it is not a bad idea. Just not sure.

Angie

 

[Yaddax3]

I am all for it.

Besides increasing revenue for shows -- many of which are losing money or finding it difficult to break even -- it could mean Shetland classes with more than one or two ponies in them.

And many double-registered minis/ponies never go to Congress so they never get the chance to compete as a Shetland. This would allow it.

As for over-taxing your horse, if your pony can't handle it then you have to be smart about it. We have one mini/pony we show in Pleasure, Roadster, Hunter, Jumper and Liberty, and sometimes obstacle, and his best class at a show often is his final class. We have others who aren't as willing or able to do a number of classes so we restrict their classes.

 

[muffntuf]

Well if we want to talk about travel hours - currently (until two others are sanctioned) only one show is 4.5 hours from me, the rest are 6-8 hours away from me. So I can't invest in that assessment.

 

[AshleyNicole]

Exactly the reason we are switching to AMHA. AMHR is becoming a registry for small Shetlands and AMHA seems to be taking steps to make them a breed which is what I want. It is rare for a B sized mini to win against a Shetland or Shetland/mini. I suppose if I bred a AMHR Shetland than I would be for this but as LaVern said it is just another nail in the coffin for the straight B sized miniature. I am not sure many care what happens to the straight B sized horse and thats too bad as we have several very nice ones but I doubt they would ever win against against a Shetland/mini. This would make it that much more difficult for them or their offspring to ever get a HOF as we would like to show some in AMHR when we happen to go to a combined AMHR/AMHA show. I doubt we will if it becomes much more difficult.

 

[Leeana]

No.....................!!! Call me old fashion.

 

[PNARanch]

I agree, don't allow cross entering. I love my B minis!

 

[Belinda]

Exactly the reason we are switching to AMHA. AMHR is becoming a registry for small Shetlands and AMHA seems to be taking steps to make them a breed which is what I want. It is rare for a B sized mini to win against a Shetland or Shetland/mini. I suppose if I bred a AMHR Shetland than I would be for this but as LaVern said it is just another nail in the coffin for the straight B sized miniature. I am not sure many care what happens to the straight B sized horse and thats too bad as we have several very nice ones but I doubt they would ever win against against a Shetland/mini. This would make it that much more difficult for them or their offspring to ever get a HOF as we would like to show some in AMHR when we happen to go to a combined AMHR/AMHA show. I doubt we will if it becomes much more difficult.

Ashly ,

I am not sure why you are so bitter toward the AMHR shows when several of your horses including the ones that came from me have been National Champions at AMHR ?? If you are showing under 34" minis' and showing AMHA , then there is no difference in showing AMHR , Most of this discussion is over the B size which YOU can NOT show at AMHA shows any way .. And I hate to be the one with the bad news for you , but there are MANY yes MANY already in AMHA that are Reg. Shetlands , So I ask how are you getting away from the shetland by not showing AMHR ?? , I don't mean this to be ugly ,and I think you are a very nice person and so is Billy , but you are still learning and let me also say the background of Bare and several of the Rowdy bred horses you own are SHETLANDS .. Not a thing in the world wrong with it , And You can compete with your horses and your bloodlines at both Assoc.. Condition and training is all you need to add you already have the horse flesh and you will be succesful..

:FirstPrize