Post Tying.

[Carly Rae]

Argh, I just read over it all and I was a total drama queen sorry all, just one time I think I have been doing really good, then it goes bad, then I get all jumbled up and confused. So I am going to try look at this all at a positive perspective.

AngC, I know I am floundering. I took a break and had a long hard think about it all, read more and thought harder. You are right, once again I began to rush things.

With the question, I didn't directly mean you handling my horse, I meant if a horse was rearing at you just trying to stand over you, what would you do? But anyway...

But on a GOOD note!

, I decided that I would go out to Toby this afternoon just before dark and practice leading again, not out in the open-But In the pens. It was SO much more positive, not once did I get angry or want to give up. I took in consideration what a lot said how I should find what works for ME. And I did. And it worked very well. I used the stick method, to keep him a distance which worked much better than using the crop to keep him away. I completely ditched my whip- Toby was much happier to cooperate with me when I was not holding a whip, I think he saw it as a threat maybe?. I used 'Pressure and Release' for when he did not stand by my side and kept moving his feet. I would put pressure on the lead and released when he stood. We went around and around the pen changing directions, stopping, standing then walking. Just kept a routine of all that. I kept the lesson short, about 10 minutes-I read in a book not to drag lessons out. We finished the lesson on a positive note, not once did he rear at me or even show signs of wanting to rear. By the end of the lesson he had a fully slack lead, he had his head and he was following by my side the right distance. He was very relaxed and so was I. I was very happy with him, happy in general. I didn't have enough time to do the tying after the lesson as it was getting late.

Now we just have to do it all again tomorrow

I just hope future lessons can be like this(I know not all will). I am ACTUALLY going to take it slow this time. I am going to do what I feel works for us as a team. I am also going to spend LESS time on the computer, on forums ect and spend MORE time just simply bonding with my horses, not just thinking I am but actually not. I mean it this time.

Thanks everyone for your help. I will not be posting over and over pages full of negative anymore. Thank you for putting up with me

I will probably log on once a day so i can just take a break.

 

[Minimor]

if it were me and my colt reared at me, he would get belted a good one with the whip. Once, maybe twice in quick succession. some horses respect one smack, some need the first one to ignore and the 2nd one to pay attention.

Now--sorry to say you may not like this--if I had a 15 year old working with a colt that behaved this way--that colt would be gelded. Quite honestly--he is too much for a youth handler and I am surprised that your parents allow you to keep him intact. A stallion that does not respect his handler and one that does not respect fences (that is extremely important to me) is not worthy of remaining a stallion.

 

[Minimor]

Ack. My phone has a mind of its own.

I wanted this on the end of my post above....if you can continue as things were in your last leading leading lesson then perhaps you will get past Toby's issues. Sometimes a horse will behave better without a whip in the handler's hand. It can depend, too, on how comfortable the handler is with carrying/using the whip--sometimes it is just a quirk of the horse. Bit good you had a successful leason; I hope you cam continue in this positive way!

 

[MiniNHF]

I have to agree with Minimor on all those points, I would be doing the same thing.

 

[chandab]

I've been reading your posts and trying to follow and not sure what I could add, until today.

Work where you can, not where you can't.

If working in a pen is working for you and you have his attention, then stay there and work with him til his manners are impeccable in the pen and he's unflappable and you are confident. Then, when you get to that point, start working him outside of the pen in small sessions, if he's only good for 5 minutes out of the pen, then only work him out of the pen for 5 minutes and do the rest of his lesson in the pen where his manners are better and your confidence is better. Keep building on those positive sessions and lessons; if something doesn't work, go back a step and work on that more, then try the new step. It's real easy to say take small steps, but I do know how hard it can be to stay in those small steps, you want more and sometimes push too fast and you have an issue, you just need to take a step back and work where you can.

 

[Max's Mom]

As I read this, my heart goes out to you. You obviously love Toby and want what is best for him.

I have very limited experience with handling stallions. I know that quite a few mini people don't geld even their pet minis, and that you mentioned that you would like Toby to be your breeding horse. However, after reading everything you have written about his fairly sudden change of behavior, it seems to me that the real problem is that you have a stallion and you are not experienced enough to handle a stallion. You don't have family members or people nearby who are able to help you safely and appropriately handle a stallion. Furthermore, you do not have the set-up for keeping a stallion.

I am afraid that you are going to get hurt. An inexperienced horsewoman and an untrained stallion is a dangerous combination. Yes, there will be times that things seem to go okay, but you have already seen that there are also many situations that have not been okay. All it takes is one of those bad times and you or someone in your family could be badly injured.

Please very seriously consider gelding Toby as soon as possible or find him a home where his caretakers know how to safely handle and train a stallion.

Best of luck. I mean no disrespect, only genuine concern.

 

[Cayuse]

I think the above post is a good one. I agree with Max's Mom, you have a stallion and are inexperienced and there are mares around and that is just not a good combination. Please think about having him gelded.

I also am writing this out of concern only. I don't want to see you or him get hurt.

 

[NewToMini's]

I recommend you either get a professional trainer (to work with both you and Toby) or have him gelded. Your horse is dangerous and you need to treat him as such.

If my horse reared at me like that, it would get a firm punishment (likely a kick to the ribs) to let it know it can't push me around like that. If a horse is acting in a dangerous manner out of dominance or aggression, you need to put it in it's place.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Please read my PM post.

This boy has no respect for you. You have to be the one in control here, not him, he is totally in charge of your right now. He might be little but he is a horse and you got to treat him as such. Its even more so as a stallion and I agree with the others I would have him gelded.

If he rears at you make him back up and I don't mean ask him to I mean make him, don't be nice about it.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

She has said in previous responces she is gelding him, just has to save the money for it.

 

[NewToMini's]

Magic Marker Minis, she said she's gelding her other colt. She plans to keep this one a stud for breeding.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

Okay, I misread. Toby definitely needs to be gelded. If he's acting like this as a two year old, think what she has to deal with once be matures and is even bigger (heavier).

All of our stallions are well behaved. If they get out of hand (usually during breeding season), we show them we are alpha. I have a coming yearling colt, once we move, will be getting more lessons. He's full of himself, but we don't let him try to kick, bite, or throw temper tantrums.

We were trying to trim his hooves a couple weeks ago and he was being a butt. We kept at it, finished, and then he was tied. He had to stand there, while his buddies had their feet done and released. He threw a couple tantrums, but finally found out he wouldn't be turned loose until he stood quietly.

 

[MiniNHF]

I know a mini gelding that when he was a colt was unruly no matter what was done to correct him and it was firm corrections, he was just dangerous and didn't care. Now that he is a gelding he is not so hard to handle any more and really calmed him down.

 

[AngC]

You must be doing something ok, because your Toby looks shaved (if I cranked up a shaving implement around any of ours, I'm pretty sure they'd have a freak-fit because it's something I've never done before) also you brush him; you mention that you lead him successfully sometimes, but then sometimes not.

I think you have multiple problems going on and perhaps you're trying to "perfect" too many things at once. I've found that it's easier for me to chunk up training ideas/sessions into little-bitty-bits.

Somebody on one of these threads mentioned a book. I have a book recommendation, but only if you like to learn from books and have the patience. If not, don't bother to waste your money.

Here's a link to the lady's site: (the book is titled: 101 Ground Training Exercises for Every Horse & Handler)

http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_books/101_Ground_Training.htm

That link shows the table of contents and a sample chapter/lesson. Check it out; it may work for you if you're a book-learning type person. I really liked it because it gives step-by-step instructions. It "chunks" things up into increments that I felt I could understand and do. It gives some hints and variations and addresses common problems. I checked out Amazon Australia; it's about 10.00 AUD in the electronic/Kindle edition. Coco and I have spent hours out in the pasture while I explained to her that we really needed to get past the lesson on haltering.

A comment to the adults on this forum, regarding the stallion gelding comments:

This one makes me "twitch" because I have a stallion who I have no intention of gelding (and absolutely no intention of breeding either.) If CarlyRae hopped out there tomorrow and gelded Toby, I think she would end up with a gelding with behavior issues vice a stallion with issues. I hope she reads the comments and observes the fact that stallions can sometimes be dangerous. But some of those comments were not only potentially discouraging to CarlyRae, they were insulting to her parents (ie, that they're stupid for letting her play around with a stallion.) Well, that's a great way to keep the youth members on-board, aint' it?

But CarlyRae seems resilient, so I hope she keeps reading here, because it is really one of the nicer forums with nicer people with some really helpful information.

 

[Minimor]

AngC, absolutely no one said her parents are stupid...where on earth did you get that?? I said I am surprised they allow her to handle this horse...only you have twisted that into something worse. Please do not put words in people's mouths!!

And quite honestly I think you would be surprised at how much the gelding surgery will mellow a bad acting colt. No it doesn't automatically make a well mannered well trained gelding--but you take away those hormones and it eliminates a lot of what is driving the bad behavior. it makes it so much easier for that horse to behave properly!

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

And she did say once he figured out he was a boy, his behavior changed. He was better behaved before.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

My gelding thats in my profile pic he was breeding mares at age 2, he was a handful as a stud but once the mares were bred he became downright hateful to them. I tried working with him on some jumps as he seemed to be talented at the jumps, but he was just real bitey. Then you didn't even want to be in the same pen with him. I was a teenager, I was still learning how to properly train a horse, I knew I was over my head. I still wanted to keep him but I knew I couldn't do anything with him as a stud, so as soon as I got home from Nationals I got him gelded. The next day he was a whole nother horse.

Now he is a 3X Hall of Fame horse in Western CPD, Obstacle and Hunter. Trust me if he was a stud he wouldn't have done all that.

 

[Cayuse]

Carly Rae, I had a thought about his rearing. If he rears up again, try to step to the side of him so you are not standing directly in front of him. When you step to the side, try to bring his head around with you and that will hopefully throw his balance off and that will put you in control.

By stepping to the side you will also be a little less out of striking range if he should choose to do that. I hope that makes sense.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Carly Rae I am going to be blunt now. You do not have the experience to keep a stallion. You are going to get badly hurt. Added to this your mares are very likely to be in foal already and you will have no idea when they are due- what are you going to do if, best case scenario, they foal down OK but the colt will not let you near them? This can easily happen. If you do not have the facilities to keep a colt in you do not have the facilities to keep mares and foals in, either. Where will you keep the other colt when he is gelded, as the entire one will not tolerate him near his mares? Are these things you have sat down and seriously considered?

You need to get both colts gelded ASAP and if I were your parents I would be lending you the money to do this- could you ask them if they would be willing to do this? Get them both gelded and hope the mares are not in foal. Enjoy working with the Minis you have and get all the experience you can possibly get....colts are like buses, there will be another one just as good along in a little while!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

One thing I do HAVE to say to you is this- if you do not have the money to geld the colt how are you going to manage when something goes wrong with a foaling mare- because, trust me, that can run into thousands!