Predator strategy - guard donkey

[Foxhaven]

I have been nervous about mountain lions in our area. My plan, to date, has been:

1) 6 ft. high electric fence - hardly a deterrent for a determined lion

2) Putting Legend and Luke up at night, turning them out after sunrise

3) Making neighbors aware of the horses, training them on bringing horses in in the event of emergency (plan on a 'horse warming' party including BBQ and KY Derby inspired drinks.... we live in a great rural neighborhood)

4) worrying every time I go to work.

4) doesn't seem like a plan.

So I started asking around, and dogs (not an option, we have 7 and that is quite enough - they are show dogs, not stable mates to the horses) and donkeys are a recurrent theme for upping the protection a bit.

As I have learned about donkeys (mostly from Long Hopes Rescue here in Colorado) it seems a jennet would be my best bet for protection, but not a great combination with a stallion and gelding mini pair! A gelded jack is my only option, but I would need to find a proven guardian as they sometimes aren't as good. The other downside is, even gelded jacks can play rough, which might be an injury risk for our mini horses.

What say ye? Thoughts, experience with this?

 

[Foxhaven]

Oh... and another advantage to a donk is, I would have a great companion for hunting wilderness. Cannot even bring a wheeled cart into wilderness. But that is just a side benefit, not the major consideration.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well, I had a mini mule for a while and he was pretty darn good as a guardian. I don't know how he would have been with a cougar but he sure kept the stray dogs on their toes and way from my horses. The only problem was he preferred the saddle horses to the minis and would mope if they went to pasture and he was left up with the minis. Because of this little quirk I sold him when I sold the saddle horses. He did learn to tolerate our house hold dogs but if there is any chance of your dogs getting in with a donkey or mule you should be aware that often they will try to so them serious harm. I too have worried about the predators around here since minis are about the size of a deer and would seem like a good bet to most of the larger predators like cougar, wolves and coyotes. Still the worst trouble seems to be the dogs that run in packs and want to chase/harass the horses. We have a law that says we can shoot a dog to defend our livestock so (even tho I'm a terrible shot and hate the idea of killing even an undesirable animal)I let it be known thro the neighbourhood that I would shoot the dogs no questions asked if they were here. All of a sudden the dogs quite showing up.... don't know why. Other than that I keep the horses safe by stalling them at night and keeping them in dry lots close to the house if I have to go anywhere in the day. In summer they are on pasture for a few hours in the morning and get hay in the afternoon or if I have to leave I give the hay in the morning and put them out on pasture in the afternoon/early evening. So far it has worked for me - 10 years and counting.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

A Donkey would be no match for a Cougar, IMO, all it would do would be slow it down while it got eaten, which hardly seems fair.....

Oops, that will teach me not to hit post before I am ready!!

I would stick with the electric fence, add lights (you can set motion detectors to activate when the animal reaches a certain level, as in jumping up ) and put an "overhang" on the outside of the electric fence. I would also bring the boys in at night...

 

[Foxhaven]

Overhang, check. @ 6' right now. A motivated cat will spring over a 10' fence though.

Lights, yep, didn't mention it but it is part of the plan. I was stunned when a trainer at a stable near here repeated a story about a cougar DIGGING INTO the stall of a neighbor's llama to get it.

Lights won't do much about a cat hunting in daylight though. Rare, but observed (by the same trainer). The stable is 4 miles from me as the crow flies.

Another idea from a neighbor who also lost a llama to a cat - have a talk radio station going at night. Predators hear the human voices and become wary.

I also had misgivings about the donkey being a kind of decoy. But wildlife officials will tell you that, when encountering a cat, to stand your ground and make yourself as big as you can and make a bunch of noise - NEVER run (triggers the prey drive). All of this is exactly what a donkey will do - so while not a match for a cat, it might be enough to make the cat think twice about an easy lunch.

No idea what the horses would do, but running would probably come to the top of the list... exactly the WRONG thing to do. With any luck, the donkey may embolden the horses. And the trainer thought the stallion might be first to imitate him, by nature.

 

[HGFarm]

I know someone who had a gelded donkey and he was even to rough to leave out with their grown boys... didnt work out at all. You could try electric fence at the top and bottomish... and bring them in at night.

 

[MountainWoman]

Are you talking about mini donkeys or full size donkeys? A mini donkey (jack or jenny) is no match for a mountain lion. I have mini donkeys and they are not helpful as guard animals at all. My dominant mini mare chases more intruders out of the pasture while my donkeys are laid back. I can't tell you about standard donkeys as I have no experience with them but because donkeys sometimes turn and kick if they are annoyed, I personally wouldn't put a standard donkey with a mini horse.

Donkeys also bond strongly to their own kind and really thrive with another donkey companion. My donkeys do play fairly roughly with each other but because they have each other, they don't bother the horses at all.

As to donkeys standing their ground, all I can say is each donkey is an individual and mine only stand their ground when you want them to do something they don't want to do.

I've heard llamas make great pasture guardians so you might want to think about them if you have an appropriate set up.

I know how dangerous mountain lions can be and I can understand why you are worried. I would be as well.

 

[Shari]

Place down the road when I lived in WA, had black faced scottish sheep. They had a full sized guard donkey.... Cougar ate it and ate and killed two sheep.

Cougar will pull down a donkey, llama.. or alpaca. They are easy food.
Sure most of you will remember what happened to Ella, she was a B sized Donkey and I didn't get her to guard... but it didn't stop a Bobcat from laying her face open and clawing her hindend.

My Icelandic horse saved her.

Only way to sleep at night is put all the animals in a locked barn or build something like the 2 1/2 acre Night pasture we had in Oregon.

8' tall fence on the small flat area, but every where else the fence was 9 to 10' to a predator....and in Oregon, we had lots of very aggressive and active predators.

This is when we first put it up, there was another wire put on the top. It did keep the Black Bears, cougars, coyotes packs and Bobcats out of that pasture. Most that happened to it, a Black Bear slightly bent

one of the T Posts. Also had the heaviest hot wire and a predator rated charger.

And don't forget the gate... put sweeps and hot wire on it. DH likes to sleep at night.

 

[Renee]

Wow! That is some fence!

 

[Rhondaalaska]

What if as well as lights activated with motion you made loud sounds activate as well like a loud horn.

Cats are scared of loud noises.

 

[Minimor]

I agree--do not count on a donkey (or a llama) to protect against a cougar. A cougar will take down a full size donkey as easy as anything. Predator fence and a closed up barn are your best options. If I were to get a guardian in your situation it would have to be two anatolian shepherds--they are about the only guardians I would trust to take on a big cat & win.

 

[Shari]

What if as well as lights activated with motion you made loud sounds activate as well like a loud horn.

Cats are scared of loud noises.

They get used to that fast........ and you can tick the neighbors off.

 

[Double T]

Dogs will help, if they are big ones and have a big bark, that can sometimes deter them. But if it makes your place it's regular circle they can get used to the dogs barking and ignore it. For one passing through though it may help. Leaving a radio on can help too, but if one is prowling it'll probably get used to the sound and immune. Honestly I'd shoot on site. Watch for tracks, and set traps if you find any, or get a lion hunter out to do it for you, if you aren't familiar with it. I've also found out that chickens and fowl will draw 'em in too. I've had my roosters crowing at 2 am before=classic calling in the predators for the most part.

I feel your pain though. We live in prime lion country, and had what had to be a young one that was just recently kicked off and not good at hunting come through one night. DH has working cowdogs and they went to having a fit about 10 pm one night. Figuring it was the coyotes coming back, DH stepped out with a flashlight and his rifle. It was circling my chicken house trying to figure out how to get in and get a chicken. He shot at it and missed and scared it off. Got lucky becuase not 50 yards away my minis were penned and a big horse was penned also, and he didn't bother the horses. Hence the deal of it had to be a young inexperienced kitten.

I do have a mini donkey that stays with my mini horses, but in all honesty, he may run the dogs out of the pen, and the cat. But anything bigger and he'd be the lead guy showing them the way out. LOL Stand and fight is not in his vocabulary.

 

[Foxhaven]

I was thinking about a small standard donkey, not a mini. I do know that some donkeys bond well with minis are are no problem. Depends on the donkey.

Some of the suggestions were in my OP already (lights, putting them up at night). The fence is not far off of that massive fence, except the field fence is shorter. And I used equine rope instead of bare wire. The elk ranch down the street has a lion proof fence... 14' chain link with barbed wire at the top. That's not gonna happen. Really, a 10' fence even, is not lion proof. The neighbors have llamas and lost one to a lion a few years ago... a young lion, collared, who didn't belong in the area and was live trapped by the DOW.

Mostly looking for information on folks who have used a small standard donkey as a guard animal, during the DAY. Sounds like, protection against coyotes (we have those too) would be good.

 

[Helicopter]

A small standard donkey would be a nice snack for mountain lion. Don't do it please,

My suggestion....move to Australia

Kangaroos and wombats aren't interested in minis.

I have seen my 4 donkeys chase a fox across the paddock but I've also seen them stand in a circle curiously inspecting a baby hare.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Helicopter, don't you have dingos to deal with down under? Predators are found every where I think, and of course you still have stray dogs.

Of course moving to Australia would still be an option, I'd like to live there for at least part of the year (when its winter here

)

 

[ohmt]

We have a small mammoth donkey that just didn't grow as big as his parents so he is the size of a large shetland, but big boned. He was bottle raised by us and we kept him with the mares who raised him. He is AWESOME, but the catch is that I'm pretty sure he would really fluster any one other than us who try to take a mare out of the pasture. He is extremely possessive and he makes a whole lot of noise. We don't have neighbors any closer than a mile, and very few visitors or I would worry. Since he has arrived we have not had any more coyote problems. Only a few trees on the 20 acres so he could maybe put up a little fight if a mountain lion ever wandered this way, but mountain lions are very rare around here. We don't completely rely on him, but he has done a wonderful job so far. He stands in the doorway of their barn at night like he's standing guard. Really neat. Plus he's our big baby, of course. He loves to have those big ears rubbed

 

[Minimor]

In all honesty there is a big difference between coyotes and cougars (we do have both here) when it comes to a donkey fighting them off. I would point out that a cougar does not need trees in order to attack a horse--even a full size horse. The cat will wait and catch the horse laying down and then land on top---of the horses killed in this area, the cougar has got them laying down, in the open pasture...one was in a corral, no cover around it for the cat...the cat rarely has to drop from a tree to get a horse, and lack of cover won't deter a hungry cat--that's been proven several times in this general area.

 

[ohmt]

Absolutely, just pointing out that it would probably be easier to fend one off without the trees. Almost all attacks in our area are tree attacks, but we are in the red river valley which used to be lake bottom so it is literally completely flat and due to flooding there are few places they would be able to hide otherwise. But, they are extremely rare here and coyotes only come after our chickens. "BoDiddly" is just a bottle baby that made himself into the "mare guard"

 

[Marty]

I'd go for Shari's fence and putting the horses in a safe barn.

Our back field is double fenced. The outter fence was here when we came and there were a huge number of bramble bushes and very tall thorny thick stuff like a fortrace all grown up with it. I couldn't get through that mess if I tried my hardest. My hus was about to tear it all down and clear it up nicly, but I thought it would be a very good extra way of stopping stray dogs from getting in. I was right and it really works. No kind of beast can get through it without getting all tangeled up in it not to mention all torn up so we left it and then went six feet in front of it with our fence. Not saying it will stop a mountain lion but can surely make him reconsider. If you ****y trap something like this along the outside of your fence you can also hang cow bells on it which might startle them. Good luck.