Present System for Judging 'R' Nationals

[Jean_B]

Did anybody bother to go check the judges' splits on the classes? It was off the charts in terms of polar opposites in quite a few of the classes. And when this happens, sometimes horses that aren't even 1st or 2nd on ANY card could end up winning the class!!!

I realize that judges are hired to place horses according to their opinion on what they are seeing at the time they view the horse. But the present system almost guarantees that some horses that are way down on one or two of the cards end up with high placings. And visa versa.

There were cases where horses were placed 1st, 2nd and not at all by the 3rd judge.....and depending on who the 'call' judge is - the horse might end up 5th, 6th or 7th!! HELLO?!? Does anyone else see the lunacy

of such a system?

I don't know what some of the other large organizations do when they use multiple judges to come up with a single placing. Frankly, I for the life of me cannot fathom why we even have multiple judges to come up with a single placing!!! I come from the registered Holstein background where you have a single judge...and a single placing. Even at prestigious National shows! Don't like the judge chosen for that particular year?? Vote with your feet and don't attend. Makes MUCH more sense to me.

OK - fire away!!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

No compliants from me. I agree with everything you said. I wasn't there, but had MANY people tell me about exactly what you're saying.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I agree it doesn't make sense. Might as well have only one judge out there instead of 3 since we heard the call judge is 70% of your placing anyways.

 

[Devon]

Its true you might as well have 1.

I dont know how could we try to improve it to make it fair?

 

[Echo Acres]

I had heard from someone that shows mainly AMHA that AMHR changed their system this year. That you would have the 3 judges placings and throw out the high and the low with the middle being your placing. Now this may hurt some people, but it might even things out a little. When I was checking my son's results it seemed to be going that way till his last class. I checked and he got a 5,5,6th but received 6th place. I went down and asked. She said it was not changed, still the same old way. The 3rd and 4th place horses both received a 2,4,6. I asked how the computer decided on who got 3rd and who got 4th. I was told it had to do with the call judge.

I would still like to see multiple judges only for the fact I think it would keep attendance up. Like Jean pointed out if you have only one judge and someone doesn't like them, they will not attend. But would much rather see the high and low thrown out. I think it would make things more consistant.

 

[Lewella]

There are breeds that have actually made using this system at their shows against their rules! That should say something right there!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The only time you would ever get multiple Judges in Europe is when they are judging a Championship....and then they just pretty much leave them to punch it out in the middle of the ring....we used to buy popcorn and sit and watch, sometimes you could even hear, it was really good fun!!

Single judges do, it is true, cut down occasionally on entries, but it really does find it's own level in the end and why do you have to "even it out" anyway, why not have it as if you were judging three classes in one ring??

That way, as far as I can see, if winning ribbons is all you are about, and with professional trainers this is so, then everyone is happy!!

I think the MOS (if that is what you are using) is basically nuts....if one judge thinks a horse should come first and another judge thinks it should come fifth or sixth, someone is not doing their job right!!!

 

[bingo]

All those complaining about the system just imagine if the judge in question was the only judge. You worked hard, paid good money all year and then got to Nationals and realized it was all about who was on the end of the lead. What a waste.

I much prefer the 3 judge system over just one judge at least you have a shot of it working out in your favor sometimes.

 

[joylee123]

All those complaining about the system just imagine if the judge in question was the only judge. You worked hard, paid good money all year and then got to Nationals and realized it was all about who was on the end of the lead. What a waste.I much prefer the 3 judge system over just one judge at least you have a shot of it working out in your favor sometimes.

And it's not???

 

[funnybunny]

I posted the same views in a post on another thread, but no one replied.

I was there. I saw the lists of placements from the 3 judges. One, particularly, was "way out of line" with the other two judges.

I like having multiple judges. But there has to be a better way to calculate...?!?

It would seem that the one judge so out of line would be "embarrassed," to say the least, for being so far afield in many cases. I guess it did not bother him. Did he not read the rules for the different classes?

Only suggestion is that perhaps that judge not be considered to be put on the panel of shows in the future if people dislike his judging.

FB

 

[wildoak]

I don't know of a perfect system. One judge at a national caliber show somehow seems inadequate, but I don't like this system either. Perhaps 5 judges/drop high and low scores is a better balance. Most of our results this year were reasonable, but I saw plenty that were not. When you wind up with a placing that is higher (or lower) than any of your individual scores something is out of whack.

Jan

 

[Devon]

There are breeds that have actually made using this system at their shows against their rules! That should say something right there!

Amen To That.

 

[Belinda]

There are breeds that have actually made using this system at their shows against their rules! That should say something right there!

Lewella

Interesting could you please give a list of those breeds , I would like to see what system they replaced it with.. As I know that there are also a lot of Large breeds that use this system and find it to be working for them just fine..

 

[Genie]

Maybe they should go to the "cards" 1 to 10, and then the judges (3 or 4 judges, whatever) sit there and hold up their cards!

The horse will then come out with a 7.5 for instance based on the 4 cards being in a range from 6.5 to 8.5 for instance.

That's really holding their "feet to the flames".

A judge holding up a 4 when another judge is holding up a 9.5, one or the other is going to look foolish and would bring more accountablility.

 

[funnybunny]

Genie, exactly right.

Remember a long time ago in the Olympics events such as the figure skating, the judges would sit at a long table and have to hold up their scores on a card in front of them?

The crowd would roar and boo at the judges who were very out of line one way or another.

Maybe the AMHR crowd could clap for the judge or boo for him.

Just kidding.

 

[user 488]

I will just make this one comment. Many of you know I have shown Arabs all my life. In all the National Shows (Canadian and US) I have attended since 1973........probably adds up to 60 plus National shows........we have used every scoring system know to mankind. (Three Judge, Five Judge, MOS, Point System, bla, bla, bla) There is ALWAYS at least one judge that is so off base you wonder if they were judging the same horse show. Really! I have been through every argument on why one system is better than another. Yes, I think some are better than others but I am here to tell you that no matter what system you use there are always going to be people that are not happy! I could give you countless examples.......not enough hours in my day to tell you what I already know. We just head on out to Nationals year after year and take what we get. No.....sometimes the best horse doesn't win but to me that's all part of showing. Hope you all get it figured out because we sure can't.

After years of complaining about all the systems we are now going to use what is called the "Arabian Scoring System" for halter. It's kind of like the European halter judging system...........I am sure most don't even know what I am talking about. Anyway..........it is still a huge HOOPLA. You either hate it or love it. So again.........no matter what system you use a large number of people are going to disagree with the judging and the system used for judging

.

 

[Mark & Sharon Bullington]

AMHR did not change their way of scoring this year, but AMHA did change theirs. No means of scoring is perfect - there are always those that will find fault with a scoring system - no matter which one is used.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Carol you're so right. No matter what system someone will hate it. The best way keep track of the judge that is out in left field. Make your feelings known by telling show managers/organizers why you won't show under that judge. It would probably be really wonderful to have judges that are not breeders/trainers for your breed as judges - but then if they were Morgan judges or Clydesdales or whatever - they'd probably favor that look.

As Carol said if you're going to show take what you get as the best horse does not always win.

Genie it would be great though to have them hold up cards - you could really keep track instead of checking the boards later - LOL!!! There is a trainer in my area that has been boo'd at shows for her placings - it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

[wpsellwood]

Well Im so annoyed that the AMHA changed their judging system at the World show this year win lose or draw on what we place on. Now if you have someone like the judge, judging at R nationals their score got thrown out! I know who the judge is that was doing it and wasnt even there! The A used to throw out the high and low and you got the average. Yeah sometimes it hurt sometimes it didnt but it seemed to be a bit more fair.

 

[Frankie]

It is just not possible to come up with a system to make ALL happy. If the way they judge is changed, I promise next year this thread will still be here, only complaining about the new system. We know the judging system and therefore is our choice to take a horse to be judged by that system. Or, stay home.

I did go look at the judges cards, and there were classes where there just wasn't much agreement. But I have seen that each year I have been there.

But it was not that way all the time. My horse, in my avatar, was in 3 classes,,,,,,,3 judges only placed him 2 different placings, and only one place from the other placing. For example, one class he was 1-2-2

I think that is pretty consistant.

I just soooooooo love to go,,,,,,,however way AMHR comes up with,,,or stays the same,,,I'll still be there.

edited as I didn't hit correct number key,,,,corrected now