Purina Born to Win : Love it or hate it?

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Marty

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Seems I have broken my own rules:" if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

but on the other hand, I was trying to keep an open mind towards new things.

I have here Purina Born to Win, although I am not sure why. I was told that it would add a lot of minerals etc. that can be lacking in the system and also might prevent a grass or hay belly for one thing, but not sure how that is possible since the horses are on hay and grass both.

Anyone that knows me knows that I don't believe in adding a lot of bling blings to the feed and I prefer to keep the feed program simple.

So tell me why I have this in the feed room now? Is this stuff really necessary?
 
Hi Marty, I have used Born to Win on a mare that was on a restricted diet to assure optimum minerals and vitamins, without adding the higher fat content that the other purina options have. This mare was in foal- in her later gestation months, when I used it, as per purina reps recomendation. It is great stuff when wanting to assure vit and mineral quota, and trying to keep extra weight off, at the same time. A purina representative in your area should be able to tell you more about the positive benifits..
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I use this for my horses, I have 1 mare with foal at side and one gelding, mare and gelding are air ferns I want to ensure that they are getting all the nutrition that they need without over feeding them. On the other feeds to get the nutrient quality from them they were looking like balloons now they look great. They were on buckeye's grow n win which is very similar I switched to this because of moving and the other wasn't available its been great.

Karen
 
OH I should have mentioned that we are on Omelene 200.

I've been putting in a slight handful of Born to Win in with the Omelene 200 but not really sure of how I"m supposed to be using this.

We do have white and red blocks out plus Purina 12 12 free choice minerals and are on grass and hay when put up at night.

I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing with this.

I'm worried about over kill.
 
I found that I could not incorperate Omeleen 200 on my plumper gals without seeing added weight happen. I also have the 12-12 block out all the time.. I remember the purina rep telling me to add nothing more to the Born to Win except quality grass hay, with the 12-12 mineral block, and seperate salt block,- if I wanted to discourage weight gain on my mare. She said it was "balanced" for the horses diet. But I must admit, I have done similar mixes as to what you described.
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: . Just watch the weight, as it can start to climb, if too much is added. Do you have a Purina Represenitive that you can contact in your area? Maybe on the feed bag. They should be able to tell you if it can be safely mixed with their other products.
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Marty - the great thing about Born to Win or any of the ration balancers is that they can be fed ALONE without adding any other grain or commercial product. There is essentially no grain in the BTW, only vitamins/minerals/protein in a soy-alfalfa based pellet. As such you are reducing their overall CALORIE intake (and especially starch and sugar which contributes to the porky look in minis IMHO), but you are INCREASING their vitamin/mineral levels. It only takes 4 oz of BTW per day (minimum) to meet the levels promised by the guaranteed analysis on the bag. You can, however, use it as a supplement by adding it to whole grains or other commercial feeds when used at this minimum amount. The manufacturer recommends 4 - 16 oz be fed daily to a horse in the range of 250-500 lbs. 4 oz = about 1 cup.

For example, some of my show horses get 8 oz of Born To Win per day. My lazy horses get just a handful of whole oats added to that to keep their energy levels up for their round pen work. The only additional supplements I use (only fed at night) are: flax seed and BOSS, a joint supplement (Corta-Flx with HA) and 2 cups of soaked beet pulp (they are too eager to get out in the morning to eat a big breakfast). THey also get 4-6 hours of pasture per day and about 2-3 lbs of T&A hay at night only. This keeps them in perfect show shape when utilized with an every other day 15-30 minute exercise regimen.

Unfortunately you're NOT likely to see much change in your horses' weight if you add the Born To Win to your Omolene products because most sweet feeds are very high in starch, sugar and calories. However, since you are probably not able to feed the amount of Omolene as recommended by the manufacturer (or your minis would be too fat), then adding the BTW to the reduced amount of Omolene you are feeding will definitely be one way to boost the daily vitamin/mineral intake. If you are feeding primarily a grass hay, your horses may also not be getting enough protein. The 32% protein in the BTW will help bring those levels up as well. If you are feeding a protein supplement or alfalfa hay, Purina makes a product called Mare and Maintenance which is the same thing as Born To Win, but with 12% protein.

Remember this rule: For the feed to provide everything promised on the bag tag, you MUST feed at the volumes recommended by the manufacturer.

You CAN use Born To Win as a supplement to your favorite feed, too. By adding it to whole grains or a commercially prepared feed, you can feed LESS of that product but still feel confident the horses are getting adequate vitamins/minerals. I do this for all of my broodmares and nursing moms. They get their broodmare feed (Triple Crown Growth) AND 4 oz of Born To Win daily. If I fed the broodmare feed at the amount recommended by the manufacturer, they would be TOO fat, but they need plenty of good vitamins, minerals and protein so I can't short them on nutrition. By adding the BTW, I am using it more like a vitamin/mineral supplement PLUS getting the benefit of extra protein (most new moms need all of these). The bonus is that the BTW is much cheaper ounce per ounce than the fancy supplements that come in the little tubs AND since I know that Purina is fairly conservative in vitamin/mineral levels, I know that I am not overfeeding any vitamins/minerals by feeding these minimum amounts. I used to use Calf Manna as a supplement for all by broodmares, but the starch and sugar content of that product is too high for my broodmare who is prone to laminitis. The BTW is much lower in starch and sugar than Calf Manna, but still provides lots of good vitamins, calcium and protein without a lot of calories. Laminitis becomes less of a risk when you reduce starch and sugar in the diet. One way of doing this is to control the starch and sugar in the hard feed. Grains contain LOTS of starch; Born To Win (and other ration balancers) contains only a moderate amount because they are essentially grainless.

I know many folks on this Forum prefer to feed grain, your horses look great and I wouldn't dare tell anyone to change a successful program, but if you find yourself always fighting the battle of the bulge in your minis, then you might want to look into feeding a ration balancer as a replacement for some or all of the grain in the diet. I find that most formerly plump horses, when changed to a low starch/low sugar diet, change shape pretty readily, get rid of their bellies (when fed good quality hay and limited pasture) and reduce the amount of overall body fat in just a few months on the new diet.

Our good show mare Crystal is fed ABSOLUTELY no grain, only 8 oz of Born To Win per day, flax seed, NO BOSS (she has to be on a low fat diet because she gains weight easily), 4-6 hrs of pasture per day and 2-3 lbs of T&A hay -- that's all. She looks pretty healthy and fit to me!

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Robin C
 
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Ok now you guys have got my attention.

But what about all the good stuff in the grains?

If that doesn't matter anymore, then why feed grains at all?

Robin you are saying that grains are not always necessary if you feed BTW?

My next question is that say if I just use the Born to Win, say 8 ounces and no grain, (per feeding???) I think they might freak out and go "where's the rest of my food?"....8 ounces seems like nothing to eat in their buckets compared to the pounds in omelene they are getting now would seem like barely enough to keep a bird alive. I think they'd protest a lot and tear the barn down or think they are starving.

Next question would be: say I have an obese fatty, that looks like a founder looking for a place to happen because I do. Now, if I want to change her over to just BTW, do I slowly remove the Omelene and start to add how much of BTW?

On the flip side I have another that needs weight desperately and is already getting 3 cups of Omelene and 2 cups of soaked beet pulp per feeding . It's going right to the belly, no place else and now she looks terribly bloated and the rest of her is still lacking weight everywhere. Does this sound like a good candidate for BTW?

How much BTW would I add to that?

Suggestions?
 
Hey Marty:

I feed wet beet pulp LOTSA wet beet pulp, and soaked T/A cubes, and about 2 pounds of grass hay. NO BELLIES.

IMO the only good stuff (for minis) in sweet feed is the OATS, beet pulp gives you the same thing as oats but with almost TWICE the fiber, and none of the sugar/carbs. Sweet feed does NOT give them enough vit/min because you can't feed them the amount required by the manufacturers without BLOWING them up.
 
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I find that most formerly plump horses, when changed to a low starch/low sugar diet, change shape pretty readily, get rid of their bellies
Absolutely! It took me only 8 years to figure that out ... :lol: .. but my former Oompa Loompas now look so healthy and trim now that I have them on a low starch/low sugar diet!

Liz R.
 
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if I just use the Born to Win, say 8 ounces and no grain, (per feeding???) I think they might freak out and go "where's the rest of my food
Exactly what I told our rep when she told me to put Omega on Born To Win & grass hay...... And he did look at me like "ok appetiser was nice but where's the rest?" So I added some oats but eventually took them away also as he did not need the oats either......... I just cannot bring myself to feed that itty bitty bit of BTW by its self to a horse and if I add extra hay to fill up the gut then he has a hay belly ..

.......... Anyway, we put him back on the Complete Advantage with the rest of the horses & I tried not to overfeed him all winter... When we clipped him a month ago he had lost the extra weight he's been carrying around for the last few years. :aktion033:
 
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a question about BTW.

My horses are out 24/7 with no hay. As of right now the little guys(31 and 37 inches) are on 1/4 BOSS, 1 tablespoon flax, and vegetable oil(enough to mix the flax and BOSS together) once a day. Could I add the BTW to this, or should I not feed BOSS and flax? I don't want to lose the coat benefits that come from the flax and BOSS, they have actually kept my black horses black this year.

The taller guy isn't very porky, he does need to lose weight, but I think that would easily go down with exercise. My shorter guy needs to lose a lot more weight.
 
Try to think of Born to Win (or any ration balancer, Grow N Win, Progressive, etc) as a vitamin/mineral supplement, just higher powered than say Purina 12:12 loose minerals or mineral blocks that you might routinely put out free choice in a stall.

A horse on an all forage diet -- either all hay, or all pasture or a combination of the two is BOUND to be lacking some minerals, depending on the geographic area where the forage was grown. Your horse may be able to maintain appropriate weight on the all-forage diet, and that is wonderful! That's what his system is geared to survive on. However, good body weight does not necessarily mean optimal nutrition. I can maintain (probably even OVERmaintain) my weight on McDonalds and various other fast food meals every day, but my NUTRITION level will not necessarily be adequate. Horses on an all-forage diet will likely benefit from a vitamin/mineral supplement and probably added protein as well since the average grass hay averages about 8-10% protein (alfalfa or legume hay is a whole 'nother ball of wax). The Born To Win is nothing but vitamins + minerals + protein. And before you say "eegads, 32% protein! My horse doesn't need that!, keep in mind that you only feed 4-16 ounces of the product per day. If your horse is eating 8 oz of a 32% protein feed and 3+ pounds of forage at 8% protein, you are coming no where near a high protein diet -- you MIGHT be getting up into the 10-11% range (I could do the math as an illustration for you, but am feeling lazy at the moment) for the diet overall. IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Feeding a 12% or 14% or 32% hard feed does NOT mean you are feeding your horse 12%, 14% or a 32% protein diet. You must average protein across the ENTIRE diet, taking into account the levels of protein from EVERY item eaten during that day and averaging those as determined by the weight and protein percentage of all food items.

So Marty I do contend that not all horses NEED grain. We mostly feed grain out of tradition and because it makes us feel good. That's the same reason why so many folks think 4-8 oz of feed is not enough to give their horse. The horses aren't in the barn comparing notes, asking each other, "Hey, how much did you get." They eat feed from a bucket out of habit, because we condition them to expect it -- and what usually goes in a bucket is tasty! There's no mark on that bucket that says they feel slighted if it doesn't get filled up to that point. THink of it this way -- you could put a cup of alfalfa pellets in that bucket, mixed with a handful of sunflower seeds, carrots, chopped hay, anything else you can think of that your horse enjoys eating -- and he could care less -- it's the act of putting in that bucket that makes it meaningful to your horse AND you! I may not feed my horses any grain, but they do get full meals. I mix the 4 oz of Born to Win with 2 cups of chopped hay in the a.m. and 2 cups of wet beet pulp for the evening meal to give it some volume. To that I may add sunflower seeds (1/4 to 1/3 cup), 1 oz of flax seed and/or almost a cup of alfalfa pellets -- depending on the needs of the individual horse. That is PLENTY of food, just not a lot of starch or sugar. I also feed plenty of good quality forage. The only horses around here who are fat and have bellies are ones who are on pasture 24/7. So be it -- those are my pets and I don't expect them to look like show horses.

Some horses DO need grain and high amounts of concentrates. Examples would be 1) high strung horses who cannot keep weight. Think of a stallion that runs the fence line during breeding season. Grain may help keep weight on this type of horse. 2) hard working horses who need the carbohydrates from grain for energy to do their jobs. 3) nursing moms who have high caloric needs in order to produce milk, 4) horses who cannot eat hay for dental or other health reasons. For this type of horse, a true complete feed (one with fiber percentage in the high teens into the 20s) which provides both forage and grain in a complete, digestible form is suggested. Complete feeds are almost always recommended to be fed at very high volumes, mostly because they are replacing hay in the diet. Also falling into this category would be situations where the horse owner cannot provide hay due to nonavailability or other circumstances. If you can't provide hay either due to lack of availability or storage issues, or whatever -- feed a TRUE complete feed to meet the horses needs as it will have the necessary fiber to meet the horse's requirements (but only when fed at volumes recommended by the manufacturer). Remember, however, that there is a difference between COMPLETE feeds and fortified feeds -- they are not one in the same. Complete feeds will be able to REPLACE hay and will say so right on the bag. Fortified feeds - like most horse owners purchase -- have had vitamins/minerals added to certain levels to meet nutrient requirements as determined by the NRC (National Research Council, and those figures are from 1989!!!!!). Fortified feeds do NOT contain as much fiber as complete feeds, and the bag will recommend that hay or pasture be fed alongside.

Think of grain as providing 2 things: A) Weight b) Energy. It really isn't REQUIRED, as there are other ways to achieve the same goals. Yes, oats are an excellent source of amino acids, but you can get AA's from other sources. On the downside, they are high in starch and some horses may not be able to tolerate them. Yes, corn is good for energy, but you risk starch overload and mycotoxin exposure. Yes, barley is an acceptable horse feed, but some horses find it not very tasty. The trouble with grains and minis is that we usually cannot feed enough of them to provide the benefits without risking obesity in the horse. This is not the case with most full size horses because they metabolize feed at a higher rate and can eat larger volumes, thus achieving the full benefit of grain diets. That being said, it should be noted that current research in equine nutrition is changing how we feed big horses, too. I'm sure you've noticed the outpouring of new "low starch" "safe choice" feeds being offered by the various manufacturers. This is because ongoing research reveals that even for big horses, the traditional high starch grain diet can be a problem for them too -- not just minis and ponies.

So to answer your questions and give the bottom line:

1) Ration balancers (Born to Win) can be fed alone in volumes recommended by the manufacturer, usually anywhere from 4 to 16 oz per day to a mini. If he can maintain his weight on the balancer alone, no need to add grains or commercial feed product.

2) Ration balancers can be used as a supplement to whole grains (usually oats are recommended) or to a commercial product, but when used in conjunction with a commercial feed, one must do so after careful consideration of the vitamin/mineral levels of both feeds combined.

3) Ration balancers are generally high in protein 28-32%, but when fed in conjunction with grass hay or grass pasture, this protein level does not present a problem when the ration balancer is fed at recommended levels. There are lower protein level ration balancers in the 12-14% range that can be fed in conjunction with alfalfa or legume forages.

4) Your mini will not "hate" you for feeding him less, despite that look on his face. Think of other low cal offerings to give him to replace the lost grain. In other words, if you are dieting and your doctor says to eat less red meat, you can usually add more salad and/or vegetables to the meal and still get the same volume of food to fill your stomach. WARNING: Carrots and apples are not low cal, low sugar, low starch. A handful of sunflower seeds, some chopped hay, alfalfa or grass hay pellets, soaked beet pulp can all add VOLUME to the meal without adding the bad stuff that contributes to obesity. You don't have to STARVE your horse to feed it a healthier diet -- it's more in WHAT you feed than how much. But, the cardinal rule to remember is: Calories IN must equal calories OUT or you get weight gain, which leads me to the following.....

Probably just as important as anything -- you cannot feed your horse into condition. You can help set the foundation for good condition with proper nutrition. It's the rare horse that looks great and can walk into the show ring without any exercise/conditioning. Most will need a combination of regular exercise, good grooming AND a superior diet to get that show ring look. That being said, however, we can provide even our non-exercised pasture pets with better nutrition to help reduce the risk of obesity and its associated health problems (laminitis, risk for hyperlipidemia). To do so, however, may require that we look beyond the traditional method of feeding grains and sweet feeds and embrace some of the newest research which indicates the carbs and starches of grains may NOT be in all horse's best interests. Good for some, but NOT for many.

Robin C
 
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I've been feeding Born to Win for over a year now. Have 11 head of minis ranging in age from yearling to 16 on it, feed according to horses weight. The only one I had on any additional "grain" was my little yearling stallion, added 1/2 C of rolled oats to his ration twice a day until about a month ago when the pasture grass got so good. All of my formerly "porky" mares look good, and their summer coats last year were awesome, never had such natural shine before. Additionally, my first ever little mini mare started her life at my house as a "rescue". (Cowgirl Kate on my website). She came to me in poor condition as a 2-yr old, was a little "club-footed" behind. I felt it was probably a result of poor nutrition as she was growing, so have used her for breeding because of all of her other GOOD points. Up until this year her babies were all born pretty much "down" on their pasterns and earned the nickname "Crazylegs" till they were about 6 weeks old, by which time they straightened up. This years baby (a filly :aktion033: ) came into the world with the most perfect, halter-class-straight set of legs I've seen. A result of the Born to Win???? I'm certain of it!!!!! GREAT STUFF!
 
Oh my, I love the simplicity of a ration balancer, Marty! I requested a feeding chart from Buckeye and follow that. The fillies are going from 1.5 lbs to 1 lb now that they are a year. Jazz gets .3 and the mares .2 until a pregnancy pops up. I weigh it on a baby scale. I added 1 cup of oats to the fillies for extra calories while they were growing, but reduced it to 1/2, and now it's a sprinkling just to use up the oats. (Blessing does not need the extras
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: ) I do add the flax and BOSS for digestion and coats. The 3 older ones now get no hay in the morning since they're on grass while I'm at work, but they get hay at night to munch on in their stalls. The fillies still get hay in the morning because there's not as much grass in their pasture.

You won't regret it.

Karla,

Although, I'm feeding Progressive Nutrition ProAdvantage grass balancer, my horses' diet is almost identical to yours, it is so simple. :aktion033: diet balancers :aktion033:

My adult minis get a bit more ration balancer than yours, but I do have B size minis, if that makes a difference (as in you have As and I have Bs; I don't recall the size you like
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I used Born to Win on my mare that was in foal and had foundered, it was wonderful for her. My plan was to switch everyone to it because I liked the balance ration feeding idea, but my other horses didn't maintain their weight very well on it. I was told I could use it to add to my current grain but because of the high concentrate of it I was leary. My mare sold and I went back to the feed we were using, which was working well for us. I know others love it, it just didn't seem to work well for us.
 
I feed Progressive Nutritions' Diet Balancers to all of my horses. No grain here whatsoever! Even my show horses get NO GRAIN. The show horses get a slight amount of Hi Fat Balancer with their Alfalfa Balancer, a pinch of beet pulp dry, alfalfa pellets and a mid day snack of grass hay. They are very fit with no bellies.

My breeding herd gets Progressives' alfalfa balancer and alfalfa pellets (they are dry lotted). Nothing else but mid day grass hay and/or pasture. I have some that were too fat and they have been switched to the grass balancer and grass hay only.

I love the simplicity of feeding this way and no worry about grain overload!
 
Just my 2 cents worth. I was told to feed BTW to my filly because she's "growing" and needs the extra protein etc. in it. Well, she's growing all right. If she doesn't stop soon, she'll have "grown" too much. Not that it's the BTW. I like it fine but I feed my "grown" boys Mare and Maintenance from Purina because it has all the minerals and vitamins without the calories. They look good and their weight is stable. They get 1/2 cup twice a day with a little (maybe 1/4- 1/2 cup) oats so it looks like more to eat and then around 2 lbs of hay(split between 2 and 3 feedings). This has kept them in good shape all winter. Just have to figure out how much grass I can now substitue for hay!
 
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I've been using BTW for about 6 months now - started with a couple of horses as a "test" and now feed it to all the horses I feed individually (since it's fed in relatively small amounts, I'm reluctant to feed it to horses in groups). I have a couple of 2 year old stallions who were just driving me crazy - I've been able to reduce their grain to almost nothing and feed BTW along with beet pulp, BOSS, hay and alfalfa. They are much saner and their weight is great. Have also fed it to my broodmares in smaller amounts along with Omolene, and to the show horses as a supplement to smaller portions of Omolene/oats. I'm still experimenting to get the right mix for individual horses, but I'm sure happy with the product.

Jan
 

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