Question about Hand Breeding

[Latika]

OK Latika if you have mares that do not cycle the "full five days" Boy are you lucky!!

Take your Big Horse knowledge on breeding and just close the book, because Minis can cycle for up to ten days as norm.!!

I am learning quickly that the little ones are sooo different to the big ones - in alot of things! I must have been lucky that the one mare I did serve last season was "normal" and cycled for exactly 5 days and was very obvious about it. the other 2 mares that came didnt cycle at all

:

My big mare cycles for 21 days for her spring heat, and I have never seen her cycle apart from then! She is not for breeding tho, so am not worried!

 

[nootka]

Most often, I have done every other day, though I have also used a hand/pasture combo with young stallions.

I notice that many times the "deed" does not get consummated any more than that anyway, in a pasture type setting (just from my observations which are not 100% nor scientific). Everything I've read or learned has leaned towards the every other day method, and timing for the heat is important as the first day or so is not all that fertile for the mare.

Good luck, Jill (oh, and DunIt)!

Liz M.

 

[Minimor]

We breed every second day as a rule, though the rules do change...we don't start until day 2 or 3 of the heat cycle. For a mare with a normal 5 day heat she'll get bred twice. If she stays in heat longer than that she'll get covered the 3rd time, then we skip 2 days & check again--if she's still in she'll get bred once more. By then we're at day 9 or 10 & if she is still in after that we quit. That's just too long & if she hasn't caught by then she has to wait for the next cycle. Unfortunately for Ice Man, all his mares have caught the first time around so he hasn't had to try again!

I've had mares stay in heat only 3 days on a foal heat, but otherwise normal heats last 5 to 10 days on our mares. Only 1 went longer than that, and that was apparently a transitional heat. She was in for a full month.

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

Jill, your horses are so beautiful

: I do the every other day here too. Unless I have a young stallion that needs to learn how to do the "deed". I havent had any problems settling any mares on the first time, with Topaz.I also dont breed on foal heat. I prefer to hand breed so I know for sure when "baby" is due. Topaz would definitely agree with yours ~~ morning, noon and night

: sounds good to him too. I think Royal is going to be like that too, but my other young stud~~ OHHH, if only he could learn the right end Corinne

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I sure would not breed 2 x a day to the same mare IMO to much risk of infection.

Mares have very different cycles I have one who cycles regularly for 12-16 days she has gone 18-20 days and settled.

I also HIGHLY suggest hobbles EVERY time you breed EVERY TIME! One slightly misplaced kick can leave your stallion injured or sterile. I have not hobbled in the past and never had a mare kick during hand breeding but let me tell you once is all it takes and I will be using them every time from now on.

Thank goodness I didnt pasture breed as the risk of injury is so much greater and actually according to vets I have spoken with not quite as rare as we would all think.

 

[Erica]

Thank goodness I didnt pasture breed as the risk of injury is so much greater and actually according to vets I have spoken with not quite as rare as we would all think.

All I can say is in the 15 or so years I have been doing it, I've pasture bred and had NO problems/injuries/inncidents.......

Most stallions (just like they would in a "wild" herd setting) know when the mare has a follicle that is ready and is willing to accept him. All my stallions are out with their "herds" and they do not watse time or energy on mares that are "showing" heat but still kicking ext......

My stallions are out March - till I get home from Nationals, then from Sept - Feb they are up in a smaller pasture with a single mare as a friend/buddy to winter with.

Most everything we do with these horses there is a risk, but in my mind I have to think these (however expensive, many National show records these have ext.....) they ARE still horses and I have to let them be just that - horses........and to me that is letting them be in a herd setting. As I have the pastures and room to allow it. In one pasture, I have four HOF, National Champion halter mares out with a HOF, National Champion stallion.........they are fuzzy, hairy, have long mohawks, dirty, ext.....they aren't slick, primped show horses, but if you walk out in their pasture they are SO happy, running and living with others. Yep something may happen, something as trivial lightening may strike (as they tend not to care anything about going in their barn)..........but I have had no such thing happen.

This is NOT to say I condone handbreeding...........I've done it in the past with outside mares who the owners prefered handbreeding - though I don't stand to outside mares anymore so to speak; I have done it. I know many people have space constraints and hand breed for that reason. It's just not my preference.

I just wanted to give my insight as to my experience and thoughts after the above statment.

sorry Jill, this is sort of off the subject you asked........

 

[Jill]

Thanks everyone for your insight. There is a wealth of information available from our members here!

The reasons I'm handbreeding DunIT this year are that it's his first season so I want to be sure he's really getting it done (I've seen one stallion kind of just make due with some thigh action!), because I want him to "learn", and because I want to know better when to expect foals.

That said, it's my intention that next year, come breeding time, DunIT will be in a paddock loose with his mares, and Destiny in a paddock with his mares

: That will suit us all well by then I think!!!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Erica I appreciate your opinions I to have been breeding for many years and never had an incident... trust me all it takes is once to injure a stallion and could leave him sterile and that once.. will more then likely change the way you do things especially when dealing with a young stallion

For me and me alone while yes everything is a risk there are some risks I can reduce and when it comes to something that IMO is purely ego driven such as breeding(not saying breeding is bad but I fully believe it is ego based) I will now take the extra care to ensure my stallion (or mare) is protected the best they can be. For me it is no different then watching my mares when they foal out. I know just as many don't believe in that and have good results.

that is the great thing about life there are always many different ways to do things, approach things and get them done.

 

[Erica]

As stated above Lisa that was not directed at you or anyone else handbreeding, it's just my Opinion on the matter; as when each and every one of us makes a post, any post; all we are doing is stating our opinions/how we feel on the matter.

I simply stated mine on the matter. Each to their own (and there is no problem with that)

I know of many other farms, friends who pasture bred as well......with great succes and no problems........but we will run in our corners and hide :bgrin

 

[Jill]

I do have to say, I don't think breeding horses for most people is ego driven. I know how much having some outstanding horses (my opinion) that come to me from other breeders means to me and what they add to my life. I hope to be able to make some good quality horses that others can enjoy and really, why do we try so hard to learn about horse conformation and type if we don't eventually plan to put what we have learned to use?

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Jill like I said it is MY OPINION and many do have nice horses and many think we have nice horses - lets be honest many times we as people do believe that OUR horses are better then THEIR horses and have had that thought on more then one occasion it is just human nature.(to me that is ego) Ego is not a bad thing it is just a fact of life. I strongly believe ego is very much involved in showing and breeding thinking and believing we can create something better then someone else-

I said I don't think breeding is bad I breed mares as well however it is not necessary and doesnt have to be the culmination of the learning process there is not now nor will there be a shortage of miniature horses in the world. Not top quality not pet quality and not everything in between. Of course the learning process usually does include breeding I am not against it, I do it myself

Erica I was honestly not trying to argue with you and am sorry if it came off that way. I never thought hobbling was a need and have myelf turned a mare out in a pen with a stallion. He was injured very badly last week happened in the blink of an eye. mare was not even angry and fighting just a misplaced (or well placed) on her part half attempt at a kick and a young inexperienced stallion a bad combo... odds are it would not happen to me again in 10 more years but seeing the intense pain he went thru is horrible and knowing it could have been prevented was even worse for me.

I guess being that this just happened and it was very serious I am a bit more gung ho about the topic at the moment

His fertility is not the issue in fact raven would be more then happy to have him as a gelding but seeing him in pain intense pain for days and worrying about all the what if's just really changed the way I will do things from now on like I said especially with a young stallion.

It was not until this happened to me that I have found in talking to vets and equine hosptials that this type of severe injury is really not uncommon at all in both hand breeding non hobbled mares and pasture breeding situations.. until it happened here I had NO IDEA it was not a rarity is all.

 

[Jill]

Hopefully none of us are taking opinions personally as to the point of being offended. The reason we all have our own horses and our own activities is because we don't all agree enough to share :bgrin

 

[Coventry Lane Farm]

Every other day here too

 

[Ashley]

Well our experianced stallions pasture breed.

And as you know Boo is off at my friends breeding. He too was finally happy to figure out what all that was bout. Now if he would learn how to put it back away!

Anyway he got lucky and the mare was in heat when he arrived there. She bred daily and then towards the end turned them out together and if she comes back in she will be pasture bred.

THe other mares I will be giving him this year he will pasture breed. However he wont have any of the aggressive mares this year, just the layed back ones.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

We hand breed every day that the mare will stand. Once she fusses we're done. We've never (knock on wood!) had an infection and we do have close to a 100% conception rate. :aktion033: I never liked pasture breeding as I want to know exactly the last breeding date. Plus I wanna make SURE Studly Stupedous did his job right....

:

But every program is different. Try several different ways, find the one that works for you!

Lucy

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I also have seen enough injuries from pasture stallions to only allow AI with mine. I might consider hand-breeding with my mini, but not my QH. I too would only allow live cover with hobbles... seen enough hospital cases

 

[Jean_B]

Every 36 hours here.

Old Vegas - hand breed with him. He's a perfect gentleman with his girls when he's on a lead line. Turn him loose and he likes to savage them. Thankfully none of his foals have developed that.

I pasture breed (usually) with Tribute. He's kind to the mares and the babies and definitely knows when a mare is receptive or not. If she isn't -- he's way on the other side of the pasture totally ignoring her. A smart stallion usually knows without getting within kicking range if a mare is receptive. If he's that stupid that he will end up "disabled" maybe it was meant that he should be taken out of the gene pool???

 

[Miniequine]

Jill,

The first year I hand bred Little John. LOL

I gotta say, there were some pretty funny scenes..OMG .

If I breed anybody this year, it will be pasture.

They are all happier and the girls have taught him

to be a gentleman.

I do worry about somebody getting hurt, but when they are together

all the time, there is never an all out argument.

They ARE very interesting creatures, aren't they?!

oh, and when hand breeding, it was every other day here.

~Sandy

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

:

I can sum it all up pretty simply

Here at my farm with my program I feel it is my responsibility to protect my mares (as well as my investment) by watching them on camera when they foal out and doing everything I can to be there for them and the new foals. I don't see why it is such an outlandish thought to want to protect my stallion (and my investment) in the same way.

However for me the true proof if he should remain in the "gene pool" will be if his foals can continue in his as well as his sires ,full siblings and his half brother and sisters footsteps by doing so well in the National show ring on a consistent basis- not if he gets injured -guess everyone has different criteria

: :saludando: and that is what makes the world go round!

 

[Jean_B]

:

However for me the true proof if he should remain in the "gene pool" ......

Good grief this subject sure has some underwear in a bunch. Must be the phase of the moon. My comment was a joke. Geesh!