Removing their whiskers

[~Lisa~]

Krissy obvioulsy you are against showing for your own reasons. I can tell you as someone who has shown for over 15 years been to Nationals severel times and oh lets not forget my hunter jumper experience with big horses showing since I was a kid...

I do not see everyone doing this extreme things nor do I think sweats, and clipping are extreme- feeding programs are everyones choice these horses look healthy and are at the top of their game or they would not be performing at their best.

if you choose not to do these things that is your choice please stop acting like you are speaking for the poor abused show horses who are miserable and unhappy. Trust me if these horses were not happy not just minis but any breed they would not be winning whiskers or not- a true show horse has to love what they are doing - please quit implying that every show horse is abused and lives a pathetic life and needs Krissy to stand up and be their voice. It is simply not reality.

I realize you want to believe this and have some need to believe this. Please go tell all the olympic horses and riders they are abused and miserable-- they have no whiskers and are clipped and are kept in stalls OMG the whole world has no empathy. Give me a break.... again any horse person will tell you a horse at the top of its game loves its job

I get that you want to and need to believe this is all horrible and cruel but many do not agree with you that does not make them horrible abusve horse owners it makes them simply people with different beliefs then you no more - no less.

 

[Sandee]

Oh yeah, my fussy hyper mare that hates to be bothered in her stall loves the attention she gets when out in public. And as for clipping, she might fuss (only a little as she gets older) when her legs are being done but her favorite time is face clipping and always has been. She closes her eyes and nearly falls asleep. She loves the attention.

My stallion thinks that the clipping is his personal attention time too. He relaxes to point of his privates dropping about a foot. Sometimes it's embarassing

- so we try to do most clipping at home!

 

[krissy3]

If you are the one depriving your horse of a natural life you will NEVER agree with me. I show my horses, so I am not against showing. I am against unnessessary ,extream, training, and horsekeeping so that you can have a "winner". I am not here to "save " all the animals , just to bring some light into the dark corners of showing. I hate things swept under the rug so there are no guilty feelings. A lot of race horses are given to auctions after their carrier is over at a whopping 4 or 5 years old, from here they are sold to slaughter, or are so banged up they cant be ridden. I watched a 2 year old break its leg on the track ...do you know why??? It was only 2, legs were not strong enough for the training it endured, track was crapy etc etc, but hey some horse had to win , and someone made a lot of money that day, someone also had to shoot their horse that first ran around the track 2 times with its leg whipping around like a windmil. I am willing to bet that was painful for the horse.... I dont think Race Horses LOVE their job of racing. My QH has a racing tattoo on her upper lip... , she certainly is not aching to run laps, even though she has 50 acres to run in in California. So I dont believe all horses LOVE their Drassage Jumping ,racing training, some are simply more tolorant then others. But if you have a crop on their hind end is there much choice? Sure you can make your horse do these things with love and fairness....but your kidding yourself if you think its for the horse and not you, they would rather be out in the field with the others.Get real!!!!

 

[~Lisa~]

Ok Krissy you are right my horses are deprived of natural living. Peta would not be pleased either. they have warm stalls at night, are not left in a field 24.7 in all kinds of weather, are vaccinated, fed twice a day- do not have to be out in extreme weather of any sort. Wear halters, get there feet trimmed- show, trailer get baths-and everything else that is not natural.

they are miserable beasts living a horrid life- one I feel extremley guilty about...

NOT LOL

I intend to go have a wonderful day with my horses.. lol hope you do the same

 

[txminipinto]

Krissy,

You aren't shining any unknown light into the "dark corners" of showing. I think we all agree that our horses love to be turned out and enjoy the company of others. There isn't a trainer who would disagree with you. I will disgree that all horses PREFER to be turned out. I have several who want to be in their stalls, who get excited when they see the trailer pull up, who KNOW when we're going to a show rather than the vet, who LOVE to set up and show. These horses have JOBS and they know their job and enjoy it. I won't show a horse that doesn't enjoy the show ring. I've sent many home that just don't have it. Show horses are PAMPERED. Yes, they have to endure some not so nice sides of the show ring, like neck sweating. But if that's their biggest complaint they still have a pretty posh life.

I think its great you realize and respect what a NATURAL life is for a horse. But horses are bred for our enjoyment and are shown for our enjoyment. And frankly, I don't enjoy losing. Will I go to extremes to win such a soreing, tatooing, ear cropping, etc a horse to win? No. Will I stall them, fit them to their best ability, smear the latest goop on their face to make them stand out when I walk in the ring? Yes. Will I use a stud chain on a mare in a showmanship class? Yes. Because it's no different than using a bit in their mouth. Whips? Just like a bit or stud chain is an aid. Yes, it can be misused. But it's also an effective aid to get a desired behavior.

I respect your opinion. However, I don't agree that I can show a horse successfully at the local level in halter much less to the national level with your methods. My job as a trainer, as well as those who want to show to the national level, is to show the horse to the best of its ability...."natural" isn't a term used in that definition. But this doesn't make those of us who CHOOSE to show to this level inhumane or abusive any more than we may think it's abusive or inhumane of you to not stall your horses. Some people think dogs should be inside in the comforts of home, some people think all dogs should be outside and are lucky if they have a dog house. Either way is acceptable depending on your beliefs.

 

[crponies]

Perhaps we should all start to feel sorry for ourselves too. I am being deprived of natural living also after all. I live in a culture where women are expected to shave their legs and underarms so I do. I live in a house with central heating and air also; now that is just not natural! In the summer I am deprived of heat while I am inside and now in the winter I do not get to feel so much cold while indoors.

The facts are that many things that humans and animals that belong to them encounter every day are just not "natural." That does not necessarily mean they are unhealthy or that we and the animals are not happy.

That said, my ponies do have their whiskers. I am not against clipping them off; I simply don't have a reason to do so at this point.

 

[txminipinto]

That's right...shaving legs is torture....hate it. but I do it to keep my husband happy and to keep from getting strange looks in public.

 

[krissy3]

LISA...my horses are in a stall right now. YEP... they go in when its snowing , and -15c. You are being ........!!!

What i listed are the things i dont like to see in the treatment of horses. I dont like to see a horse tied with 10 inches of rope all day long at a show , then stuck into a trailer at night....with a halter and tied in the trailer too. DOES ANYONE HERE THINK THIS IS OK FOR THE HORSE??? I DONT LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE TRIM THE HORSES HOOVES AT A SHOW SO SHORT THAT THEY LIMP UP TO THE MEASUREMENT AREA...DO YOU? I cant believe you think this is OK

do you people really think its OK to not give your horse hay so it doesnt get a hay belly? Please fess up if you think this is ok other than Lisa, I know she thinks its not inhumane.

 

[~Lisa~]

Krissy I refuse to play your games anymore -I get you want and need the attention of being the horse saver. I get you feel I am ahorrible horse owner with unsocialized horses who will end up on the slaughter trucks you have said it many times before I have heard it all thanks

... if you wish to continue this further please take it to PM...

to everyone else I apologize....

MERRY CHRISTMAS

 

[minimomNC]

I guess I am one of the horrible horse owners like Lisa. My horses don't want you messing with the deal they got going on. They have 12 x 12 stalls thickly bedded with shavings, they are fed three times a day, during show season they don't get all the hay they can eat, they get a handful but they also get 4 cups of soaked beet pulp twice a day too. They don't want to be out in the pasture in the middle of an August summer day, the flies alone drive them crazy, they love their big stalls with fans for comfort and enjoy being outside at night when the bugs go to bed. We work our horses from Feb until the World Show in Oct, every other day for 20 minutes, sometimes when there is extra time between shows they might not work more than two days a week, they do stand tied for about an hour to cool off. They never wear slinkys or blankets at home unless we have just come home from a show and its cold. We only go to 4 shows a year as a rule, so they have plenty of time to relax between shows. They are not over weight, they do not have fat necks (I don't buy bloodlines that produce fat necks) they are friendly with most everyone and while at a show the only time they wear blankets is if its cool or the night before they show after a bath, they are never tied so they can't lay down and they always have full buckets of water.

I don't know where you have seen all of these things at shows, but those people probable wouldn't win at the larger shows, a horse will not show as well when treated like that. Most of the trainers I know would never treat their horses like that either, they know its not good for them. So I have no idea where you are basing all of your cruelty experiences from, but it isn't being done by the people I know and show with and I sure don't do it.

As for doing all of this for money, please, I have lost a whole lot more than I have ever gained with miniature horses. We do this on our own, we can't afford trainers but we love to show and yes we love to win, my opinion is why show if you don't want to win. We might not all the time but we don't go to a show with the hopes of losing. I won my first World title this year, heck yea I am thrilled, is my horse abused because I took him to a show, yea right, he doesnt think so either.

I understand your opinion is yours to have, thats fine, but your facts are way off when it comes to most people that show. We love our horses and would do anything to make sure they are healthy and happy.

 

[user 488]

That's right...shaving legs is torture....hate it. but I do it to keep my husband happy and to keep from getting strange looks in public.

Carin I just shaved.......on my way to the ER!

Oy!

Sometimes you just can't waste the movement of your fingers anymore and you have to let things go. I feel like I am reading one of those razoring threads on the Forum 10 years ago. Sorry..........I'm BAD!

BTW....I'll join the inhumane, horrible abusive, unnatural group......

 

[wpsellwood]

Im laughing about the leg shaving cuz I thought the same thing about some countries dont shave human legs and some do, some shave horses muzzles some do. Ha ha.

I join the inhumane group, I trained racehorses for over 20 yrs.

 

[maplegum]

I have to agree with Krissy on lots of her points.

That's why I am trying to make a difference in the show ring.

I refused to clip off half of Willow's mane just to make her neck look thinner and longer, or whatever that is supposed to do. If the judge wants to see her neck, look at the other side!

No way am I removing her eyebrows and hairs around her eyes. Her muzzle hairs were removed in error and it won't happen again.

I do not apply that horrid plastic looking goopy stuff to her beautiful face, she is gorgeous the way she is.

I did however clip her out. She had 'almost' lost all of her winter coat anyway so just did a tidy up.

And guess what? Willow has come home with two 1st place ribbons!

And most of you would curl your toes if you knew what little effort I put into taking Bailey into the show ring. He still had his winter fluff, no clipping, no makeup, NOTHING! He placed 2nd!!!

Now I don't have a anything to loose here, that is the difference. i don't have a farm to promote, it's just me and my 2 horses. If I don't win, too bad. I just go along for the fun. And that's how it should be. Fun. Our horses are so tolerant and forgiving.

 

[RhineStone]

Wow! What's with all the defensiveness? Did Krissy hit a nerve?

We don't show breed shows for some of the same reasons that Krissy listed. That has nothing to do with any one person on this forum, so you all don't need to get all stressed out and head to the ER because you shaved your legs!

We body clip our show horses, but only with a #10 blade, which I have heard is WAY too long for a mini show! I don't want to have to be concerned about sunburn when I turn my horses out 23/7. They are brought in to be trained/exercised so I don't have to use a sweat or "starve" them for good condition.

My mother bought a mini halter mare that was fed handfuls of hay at a time during the day so that she did not get a hay belly. She was a crabby mare who wanted to bite all the time because she was hungry, but she looked good!

Mom bought her for a driving horse. The mare still acts defensive with her hay, just like a neglected Arab we "purchased" a number of years ago just to get her out of that situation. Now, I am not saying that all breed show halter people starve their animals, but this is a good example of it happening. Was she actually starving? No, but she felt that way, and still does. I think these examples are what Krissy is referring to. I know of other people who had TREMENDOUS success in the mini Nationals ring that decided to quit because of the "starving horse" trend. That was about 12 years ago.

Yes, we have stalls for our horses when it is icky in our cold state, but if it is nice, they want to be outside. It is healthy for them. We do clip the whiskers on our show horses. It tells some judges that we care about their opinion. It is the only time we bother clipping whiskers, other than the eye whiskers for the driving bridle blinders, which I have referred to before. Clipping eyelashes is cruel, and just to make the horse's eyes look bigger. Yes, I know the Arabian people do it, too. That's probably where the mini people got the idea. I wish it would stop. I wish that judges would stop it.

I know of highly respected driving judges who advocate that even fetlocks not be trimmed if the horse is usually a pasture horse, to protect from flies. That is what I enjoy most about the carriage driving world, the people are generally practical and concerned for the horse's well-being, understanding that a comfortable horse is a well-performing horse. Some of the antics that are "expected" in the breed ring would be chastised in the carriage ring by a good judge. There are no exhibitors "fighting" for ring position by interferring with another's horse either with whip or voice. All the horses still have their eyelashes intact. Exhibitors don't "bounce around the center of the ring" trying to attract the judge's attention. They get on the rail where the judge can see them. For being such an "unnatural" discipline for the horse, carriage driving is the most accepting discipline I have seen for the horse. The horse is shown to the best of IT'S ability, not forced into an "ideal" created by money-driven humans. And the people are nice, too!

 

[minimomNC]

Why does everyone think we starve show horses, my yearling stallion eats pretty darn good. He gets 2 - 3 cups of soaked beet pulp with 2 cups of Omelene 200 and a cup of oats TWICE a day, he is only 30" but he gets plenty to eat. Right now for winter, he gets a flake of hay a day split into two feedings and 4 cups of Omelene 200 twice a day. And except for the World Show, we clip with a 10 or 15 for every other show. We do clip faces, we do razor them and we do attend to their needs until it grows back, just another reason they are not thrown outside in the hot sun. I want them to be competitive at a show and I want them to be comfortable when they come home. I love my horses but I sure didn't spend all of this money to take a hairy, fat, unkept horse to the World Show.

This didn't hit a nerve because I feel like I am doing anything to harm my horses, its hits a nerve because of someone lumping every person who shows horses into a group and calling everything they do cruel. And assumes we all do it only for money. Until you pay my bills, clean my stalls and feed my horses, don't assume you know how my horses are treated. Or if they are happy or not.

 

[Leeana]

Its a normal practice, atleast here in the united states anyway. Apart from the mares and horses just standing around not doing much, when I clip I take off all of the facial hair and whiskers. I do not clip off the short lashes, but do take off the long eye lashes where there are normally one or two below or above the eye. These are horses, not cats ...

 

[krissy3]

Thanks guys

dont know how the topic ended up about shaving legs..(human)

If I lived in a stall , and happily spent most of my time outside I would want to keep my leg hair. If I still lived in a cave like my ancesters did...I wouldnt shave my legs. You know what ...just to proove my point , I WILL NOT SHAVE MY LEGS THIS ENTIRE SEASON at the end of the season I will send anyone who wants to see my hairy legs a photo.

 

[susanne]

We all need to differentiate between things that are cruel and things that we simply don't like.

There are certainly grooming practices that I choose not to do, but that's my choice. I hate the LOOK of shaved muzzles and eyebrows, but I don't believe it's necessarily cruel, providing people take care against sunburn or irritation.

I clip whiskers before a show, but not the rest of the times. I think about the worst thing that's going to happen is that they can't test the hotwire, but hey -- that may be good.

There are some truly nasty practices in the show world and these should be denounced, but by lumping things you merely prefer not to do in with actual abuse, you blur the line by crying wolf.

 

[krissy3]

Merly stating that there is a difference between what we do to our horses for ourselves at the expence emotionally and physically of our horses.

Emotionaly being:

any training practice that makes horses scared of humans, cower when they see a whip, shake when you try to train them, rear, bite.In my oppinion these traits are expressed by the horse because of bad handeling. If your horse does not do this , then you or the person that had your horse before has handled your horse correctly or "humainly

Physicaly

anything physicaly dangerious to the horse. depriving a horse of natural sunlight, stalling a horse more then 15 hours a day on a regular basis ON A REGULAR BASIS , not when weather is bad , or healing from injury, or if you simply dont have the turnout space.those are the exceptions

trimming hooves to fit into a class, weights on mane to get rid of fatty neck .

Maplegum....SOOOOO cool that you placed so well with your horse .

There is something I think your horse had that the others didnt that day ...An inner glow , that doesnt come from a bottle

 

[mydaddysjag]

Add me to the list of cruel horse owners. I clip muzzles for show season. Heck, I sometimes even Razor. In the winter I cut the wiskers with scissors so they are about 3/4" long or so. A few years ago My mare had ice on her wiskers from drinking from her bucket. In order to get a drink with her super long hairs, she had to completely submerge about 3" of wiskers in her bucket. She then had a chin full of ice all day, and im sure it was heavy and pulled on her, causing discomfort. I leave enough there for protection, but not so much that she has a 1/2 lb of icicles hanging from her face.

My horses are turned out at night in the summer due to extreme heat and flys, not at all because I dont want them to fade. Would you want to be stuck outside in the sun in 90 degree weather with the flys bothering you? I sure wouldnt. They are taken out to be hosed in extreme heat, and put in their stalls to drip dry with a fan.

In winter they go out for a bit in the afternoon, because thats when it is the warmest.