Removing their whiskers

[maplegum]

I guess not much will change in the show ring until people 'want' it to change. If more and more people began to show their horses in a more natural state, rather than looking like a plastic toy, things might change. We all believe our animals are naturally beautifully, so why are we not promoting that????? Instead, these forgiving horses are put through crap. Just because WE want a ribbon! I have only had a small amount to do with the show scene and I am appalled at the practices that take part. All of the things that Krissy mentioned, also upset me.

Krissy is not stating that you starve your horses, she is not pointing the finger at anyone in particular. She, just like me, is stating that there are some unnecessary practices that go on, and it's not acceptable.

I am 'trying' to make a stance in the show ring by showing my horses more naturally and guess what? I'm winning ribbons against people who have their horses made to look like plastic toys! And the steps these people go to to make their horses look like that really really upset me.

I'd like to see a change, but I am only one person making a stance.

 

[maplegum]

Add me to the list of cruel horse owners. I clip muzzles for show season. Heck, I sometimes even Razor. In the winter I cut the wiskers with scissors so they are about 3/4" long or so. A few years ago My mare had ice on her wiskers from drinking from her bucket. In order to get a drink with her super long hairs, she had to completely submerge about 3" of wiskers in her bucket. She then had a chin full of ice all day, and im sure it was heavy and pulled on her, causing discomfort. I leave enough there for protection, but not so much that she has a 1/2 lb of icicles hanging from her face.
My horses are turned out at night in the summer due to extreme heat and flys, not at all because I dont want them to fade. Would you want to be stuck outside in the sun in 90 degree weather with the flys bothering you? I sure wouldnt. They are taken out to be hosed in extreme heat, and put in their stalls to drip dry with a fan.

In winter they go out for a bit in the afternoon, because thats when it is the warmest.

No, see...I DON'T add what you are doing to the list of cruel owners. You are looking out for your horses best interests by making them more comfortable. I don't agree with the razoring of the muzzle, but it if stops at that, I can live with that.

i think people are missing the point here. I'm trying to say that there are people who lock their horses away for a good part of the day for THEIR own benefit, to win ribbons, not to make the horse more comfortable.

 

[krissy3]

I agree "mydaddysjag"(is that right? what you have done is think about whyt your horse is feeling, then you have done what you could to make that horse feel better. I think thats awsome! yea , if my black horse was stuck outside in 90 degree temps or more I would do exactly what you do. and the ice on the wiskers, the other day my gelding had ice on his wiskers... I will look more carefully at him today and if its causeing more discomfort FOR HIM , I will trim them if it makes him feel better. I didnt think of that , so thanks for bringing that to my attention , and thanks maplegum for clarifying things for the readers. Your words come out better than mine.

 

[HGFarm]

I only clip my horses noses when it's show time, and yes, they do use their whiskers as 'feelers' just like cats. Watch them try to eat from a tub or feeder after you have clipped them off- they will bang their face on the feeder because they are used to those whiskers being there to help keep them from whacking their nose on stuff. I only clip to show. I dont think it's mean, but horses do use those for a reason.

 

[~Lisa~]

Add me to the list of cruel horse owners. I clip muzzles for show season. Heck, I sometimes even Razor. In the winter I cut the wiskers with scissors so they are about 3/4" long or so. A few years ago My mare had ice on her wiskers from drinking from her bucket. In order to get a drink with her super long hairs, she had to completely submerge about 3" of wiskers in her bucket. She then had a chin full of ice all day, and im sure it was heavy and pulled on her, causing discomfort. I leave enough there for protection, but not so much that she has a 1/2 lb of icicles hanging from her face.

you know I am not sure why I never thought of that but honestly I didnt and will be trimming some whiskers today that is great thinking

 

[Humhill]

When you really think about it, show horses are really well taken care of. They get a balanced diet, exercise, shelter, fresh water, grooming, vaccinations, medical care, "pedicures," and for most, a job that they love. Things they wouldn't necessarily get in the wild. I think trimming whiskers, body clipping, and shaving are pretty minor things to worry about. Go look on Craigslist. Ride around the "neighborhood" for a while. Look at all the horses living in filth with dirty water, worms, no or minimal feed, "elf" toes, probably never had a vaccination in their life. Then come to my house and tell me that my show horses aren't happy when they come to you in the pasture and trot happily into their stalls for their dinner, love to be groomed and pampered. It doesn't do you any good for your show horse to be unsafe, unhealthy, or unhappy. They're not gonna show.

Worry about a problem bigger than rather or not people clip whiskers off their show horses or shave them. Or if they use sweats (I'm embarrassed to admit I've seriously considered strapping one around my own stomach), body clip, goop on the faces.

Disclaimer - I am NOT saying that ALL horses on Craigslist or int he "neighborhood" are abused or in bad situations. But I've seen plenty on there.

PS- You can't tell me that it doesn't hurt when I get my eyebrows waxed and plucked or that my clothes and make-up I have to wear for work are comfortable. But, I do all that so I can keep my job so that I can pay for my horses to be happy and well taken care of.

 

[krissy3]

When you really think about it, show horses are really well taken care of. They get a balanced diet, exercise, shelter, fresh water, grooming, vaccinations, medical care, "pedicures," and for most, a job that they love. Things they wouldn't necessarily get in the wild. I think trimming whiskers, body clipping, and shaving are pretty minor things to worry about. Go look on Craigslist. Ride around the "neighborhood" for a while. Look at all the horses living in filth with dirty water, worms, no or minimal feed, "elf" toes, probably never had a vaccination in their life. Then come to my house and tell me that my show horses aren't happy when they come to you in the pasture and trot happily into their stalls for their dinner, love to be groomed and pampered. It doesn't do you any good for your show horse to be unsafe, unhealthy, or unhappy. They're not gonna show. Worry about a problem bigger than rather or not people clip whiskers off their show horses or shave them. Or if they use sweats (I'm embarrassed to admit I've seriously considered strapping one around my own stomach), body clip, goop on the faces.

Disclaimer - I am NOT saying that ALL horses on Craigslist or int he "neighborhood" are abused or in bad situations. But I've seen plenty on there.

PS- You can't tell me that it doesn't hurt when I get my eyebrows waxed and plucked or that my clothes and make-up I have to wear for work are comfortable. But, I do all that so I can keep my job so that I can pay for my horses to be happy and well taken care of.

We are not talking about basic horse care...all listed above are the basic care every horse kept in captivity deserves. wild horses keep their hooves trimmed , and usually take care of themselves provided they have enough space, they have been doing it for years. We decided to keep them in confined areas , some a lot bigger than other spaces, we have taken away all the land for grazing , so we have to feed them . those that have horses and dont take care of them are worthless humans , and should have the horses taken away. The rest of us with 1/2 a brain should be giving the basic care to our horses without a pat on the back...its the least we could do for them. This topic addresses something entirly different . If I want you to be a size 2 because I think you will look prettier in a suit, I will wrap you in latex, run you in circles , and squeeze you into a small suit , maybe even give you 2 handfuls of popcorn a day , and a handful of laxatives and vitamins so you will be thin. Thats what were talking about.

 

[JWC sr.]

You know in reading this series of posts I find it very funny and somewhat interesting the extremes that some have gone to merely to make a point.

There are a lot of things that we as horse owners should get on a band wagon about such as use of steroids, electrical shock treatments, doping in general, intentional breeding of dwarfs etc etc. As versus something as mundane and rudimentary as clipping of facial hair.

To each his own in my opinion. We will continue to present our horses in whatever manner we personally feel is in the best interest of giving them having every opportunity to excel in whatever portion of the equine world they are living in as long as it is not harmful or physically abusive.

If that means clipping a few hairs, working them daily in a round pen or adjusting diets to individually produce the best results for their personal metabolic rates, then so be it.

These are in fact animals and even though we may love them, they are still animals. Heck in some cultures they eat them. Europe is one of the main users of horse meat. Here in the USA we eat cattle, hogs and chickens as versus horse meat. While in the Hindu religion in places like India they don't partake of any of them. I personally choose not to have anything to do with horses as a main course, but I am not going to judge people that do. Cause if they start messing around with my rib eye steaks, there is going to be a war here in Texas. LOL

Our animals deserve to be treated with respect and dignity in whatever avenue they find themselves in. Be that a breeding farm, private pet setting or the show ring. As long as we adhere to that general principal, everyone including the animals come out winners.

So with that and 1.25 you can go get a cup of coffee. Heck come to think of it, I will even buy!!!

 

[~Lisa~]

To each his own in my opinion. We will continue to present our horses in whatever manner we personally feel is in the best interest of giving them having every opportunity to excel in whatever portion of the equine world they are living in as long as it is not harmful or physically abusive.

If that means clipping a few hairs, working them daily in a round pen or adjusting diets to individually produce the best results for their personal metabolic rates, then so be it.

So with that and 1.25 you can go get a cup of coffee. Heck come to think of it, I will even buy!!!

Make that a hot chocolate or diet coke and I will take you up on it.

 

[minimomNC]

I second the hot chocolate but I have to have a real coke LOL.

 

[JWC sr.]

Merry Christmas everyone and if you are down this way, cokes, hot chocolate and rib eyes are on the house.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I'm not for or against showing as I've never been to a show, nor do I have any interest in showing. I have heard countless horror stories about what "some" horses have to go through though. While I LOVE the look of a show horse, I wonder why it is so necessary to do some of the stuff to them. If a horse truly has a wonderful neck, body, or gait (or wonderful conformation), why do people have to enhance it by using sweats or weights? I would think that if you were looking for a horse to use for breeding, you'd look at "unaltered" horses, rather than ones that have had cosmetic altering to see what kind of "true" features they have?

I did find it interesting when I was watching the link on here of the live show. By looking at the pictures people post on here of horses set up, you'd think that the horse would instantly set up and hold that pose until the handler told them to relax. But what I saw on the live feed, was a bunch of antsy horses that would relax, and had to be reminded and repositioned back into setting up. It made me feel like the horses would rather be in a relaxed position?

I'm just curious, the horses that would rather be stalled rather than turned out, do they have the option of going in or out at their will? My horses have two run-ins, and would rather be out sunbathing in our 115 degree weather, then under the shade. They also choose to be out in our 60 mph winds, rain and snow, rather than stay in their shelter.

I do think that show horses lead a posh life, and it's no more inhumane then what celebrities do to themselves to make themselves desireable. But I've always wondered...what is mane pulling? That sounds painful.

 

[Minimor]

We all need to differentiate between things that are cruel and things that we simply don't like.

This is so true, and yet some cannot seem to manage it.
Yes, there are some hungry show horses out there, but not all of them are starved down into show condition. (Mine sure aren't!!) A few get their feet trimmed too short to make a certain height division, but that doesn't mean they all do. I don't razor my horses' heads & I don't goop them up with highlighter gel--I don't think it's cruel to do so, I just think it looks ugly & so do not do it. I don't think it's cruel to keep a horse in the barn for the day and turn him out at night...some people do that here just because it's the best way during fly season--fewer bugs at night so the horses are more comfortable out on pasture through the night, and are happy to be in the barn where the bugs can't get to them during the day. If it's a day where the "bulldogs" are bad...bulldogs being the name given to a species of large, biting (serious biting!) flies here...putting the horses in the barn is about the only thing that can be done to protect them from those miserable things. Fly spray has no effect at all.

Krissy, you should turn your attention to the horses that are truly abused--those that are truly being starved, right to the point where they go down and even die--instead of lumping all show horses into the "abused" category, pointing fingers and making accusations against those who show their horses with traditional American grooming methods. I only wish that the worst abuse any horse suffered is to have its whiskers shaved off for a show!!! In the space of a couple weeks (or less) I've seen you condemn some who don't deserve condemnation and defend someone who doesn't deserve that defence.

Hey, I will join you guys that are getting together for hot chocolate, cokes and John's ribeye steaks...today when it is snowing heavy here (mild temps though) some hot chocolate would be just perfect. I can bring the Timmies donuts, they always go good!!

 

[krissy3]

I'm not for or against showing as I've never been to a show, nor do I have any interest in showing. I have heard countless horror stories about what "some" horses have to go through though. While I LOVE the look of a show horse, I wonder why it is so necessary to do some of the stuff to them. If a horse truly has a wonderful neck, body, or gait (or wonderful conformation), why do people have to enhance it by using sweats or weights? I would think that if you were looking for a horse to use for breeding, you'd look at "unaltered" horses, rather than ones that have had cosmetic altering to see what kind of "true" features they have?

I did find it interesting when I was watching the link on here of the live show. By looking at the pictures people post on here of horses set up, you'd think that the horse would instantly set up and hold that pose until the handler told them to relax. But what I saw on the live feed, was a bunch of antsy horses that would relax, and had to be reminded and repositioned back into setting up. It made me feel like the horses would rather be in a relaxed position?

I'm just curious, the horses that would rather be stalled rather than turned out, do they have the option of going in or out at their will? My horses have two run-ins, and would rather be out sunbathing in our 115 degree weather, then under the shade. They also choose to be out in our 60 mph winds, rain and snow, rather than stay in their shelter.

I do think that show horses lead a posh life, and it's no more inhumane then what celebrities do to themselves to make themselves desireable. But I've always wondered...what is mane pulling? That sounds painful.

Mane pulling is literally pulling the mane , some horses dont mind it , some hate it.The difference between cosmetic surgury for us and our horses, is that we decide to do it to ourselves. This topic is no longer about wisker trimming. It went beyond that. True almost every horse would rather have the choice of being out when they want. Horses are not like dogs , they dont need to crawl under trees or in caves to find shelter, they would rather hurdle together in a group and sleep freely with one on guard . If you only feed your horse in a stall,then it will naturally want to be in the stall to find food. Kanoas I agree with you .

People that show professionally have to do these things to their horses, because the "other guy" is doing it, they will all support eachother, and no one thinks the things they put their horses through for the sake of winning is harsh. But we the people that can win without the hash treatment of horses will win in the long run.

In a way that the professional showers wouldnt understand .I am done with this topic, things will never change, but I have a lot more respect for people that can show a relaxed happy natural horse.

 

[tagalong]

This topic is no longer about wisker trimming. It went beyond that.

Yes - because you took it there deliberately. You labeled things as Cruel or Harsh that aren't - like horses being out at night instead of the heat of the day. Really? Wow. You point fingers and sneer - all while congratulating yourself for doing so. It comes across as rather sanctimonious. Thus it should not surprise you that it rubs some the wrong way.

When we shave whiskers here, the horses actually love it. They love the feeling of the clippers on their nose... they lean into it and often try to wrap their lips around the blade. Not exactly torture. Horses also do not use their whiskers in the same sensory way that a cat does. Horse whiskers are static - they do not flex back and forth like a cat's. A cat's whiskers are a flexible extension of its senses. Horse whiskers are just a rigid early warning sysytem when they stick their nose close to something. Two entirely different uses and scenarios. I have not seen horses with shaved whiskers having any trouble finding their way around or eating out of feed tubs.

You think it is cruel that fit, sleek show horses have a balanced diet? That they do not have huge hay bellies? That is not cruel - that is just sound horsemanship. So then it must be cruel that I make sure the airferns around here only have small helpings of hay and limited pasture time when the grass is lush. It is far better that the two of them gorge themselves as they are so founder-prone. Gotcha.

We are not talking about basic horse care...all listed above are the basic care every horse kept in captivity deserves.

Bolding mine. That is a PETA-esque phrase. So just having horses then is cruel, I guess. Captivity instead of wandering the range, pawing through the snow for a few bites... who knew. By that reasoning, putting them in any stall is thus harsh. Driving is harsh. Hauling them in a trailer is harsh...

I have a lot more respect for people that can show a relaxed happy natural horse.

Well, our horses showing at the top levels are relaxed and happy. If not, they would not "show" and be "on". They strut into the arena - they are not dragged in there.

I better go out there and tell them they are being treated so very harshly and that they are all supposed to be cowering in their stalls. Poor things. They never knew.

Sorry all - I just caught up on this thread that ran off the rails... and likely should not have posted. So now please hand me some of that hot chocolate and I'll add some Bailey's to it....

 

[Humhill]

Sorry all - I just caught up on this thread that ran off the rails... and likely should not have posted. So now please hand me some of that hot chocolate and I'll add some Bailey's to it....

Completely agree Tagalong. However, I think Amaretto is the best in Hot Chocolate. Yum...

I think the biggest problem most of us that show are having here are that we're being lumped into the category of animal abusers when most people that show are the exact opposite. I agree, there are a few, but a very few. You can't tell me either that all the professionals and trainers don't care about their horses. I know several that I've had personal experience with that take the welfare of their horses very seriously. And you'll never convince me that there's a way to make money showing Minis as one poster suggested. If there is, tell me the secret!!!

Just stop generalizing.

 

[Carolyn R]

Pearls of wisdom are embraced much more when they aren't oozing with sarcasm.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but so much more is accomplished when done so on a respectable adult level. It seems, lately, as if topics take a certain cynical turn when some people aren't thinking constructively when they post.

Lets all act like adults here, no need to "troll" for entertainment.

 

[ohmt]

Beautiful Diane and god bless your wonderful daughter. What a true gift she must be...I bet you are very proud of her.

I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday!

p.s.-mane pulling isn't as harsh as it sounds...I have a special comb (that you can buy at any horse supply store) and you wrap the hair around it (a very small portion) and while holding the top so it doesn't hurt the horse, I pull so it cuts the hair. Its just a way of trimming down the mane when it gets too long. I have a stallion that has such a thick, long mane that if I don't do it every spring, its rather uncomfortable for him because of all the weight. It doesn't hurt him at all, I promise, and he ends up with a beautiful mane that makes his every day life a little more enjoyable. Plus, he gets extra treats afterwards

 

[Sandee]

..........................

I'm just curious, the horses that would rather be stalled rather than turned out, do they have the option of going in or out at their will? My horses have two run-ins, and would rather be out sunbathing in our 115 degree weather, then under the shade. They also choose to be out in our 60 mph winds, rain and snow, rather than stay in their shelter.

......................

Just for your curiosity. I have 3 minis here (stallion, gelding, & mare). Of those the stallion and gelding (and the stallion is worse) don't want out in the rain or the wind or the cold. They both come to the barn gate begging to come in out of that horrid weather -anything past a sprinkle is too much. The mare will go out in any weather and dig thru the snow for grass but the boys (6 and 22) are wooses and will only eat after she finds a spot!

Yes, they are, or were, all show horses and YES, they are spoiled!